JumpinTrainz
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Yutong 65101 spreading its wings on the 88 today. It would be nice to see them on the 60/60 and 61 before they move over to Scotstoun if that’s still the plan.
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Buzby
Member
Yup - I was on it this morning. I couldn’t believe it when I saw it approach the stop - I.nearly let it pass in my surprise!
Strathclyder
Established Member
Excellent news, especially in light of the recent spike in LGBTQ attacks here. The vehicles in question will stand out from the rest of the fleet and will send a strong, but simple message: You're seen. You're not alone. We accept you for who you are and who you love. Full approval from me.
Oy, this old chestnut again...
Quick question, what year is this? Promoting inclusivity and acceptance in the workplace isn't an ideological agenda, being LGBTQ+ isn't a choice nor a belief - it certainly wasn't a choice for me; the only choice I made was whether or not to paint a metaphorical target on my back by coming out - and last I checked, most people don't consider it even remotely controversial nowadays (thank god).
The mere idea of us having the same basic rights as everyone else branded as 'political' is beyond my ability to comprehend and is frankly insulting, not least because of how long and hard we the LGBTQ community have had to fight to get to this stage; I could scarcely imagine this happening even 12 years ago.
I've derailed the thread enough now; I'll shut the spiggot off now.
Do First have a plan to keep a lot of vehicles spare at Scotstoun just in case the use of E200EVs is a bit of a disaster, given that most routes are too long and run for too long for them to last all day? Being realistic, it's only the M11, M60, 16 and 81 they're probably comfortable for in terms of a full service and maybe the 8 and 90 at a very close push.
Yutongs for the 2, 3 and 6 would still be a bit close in terms of lasting the full run. The new version of the E400EVs would be good for the 6A and 77.
Yutongs for the 2, 3 and 6 would still be a bit close in terms of lasting the full run. The new version of the E400EVs would be good for the 6A and 77.
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New generation E400evs would also be a better choice for the 1s, 2s and 3s.
If E200evs are running out of charge they can easily be changed over during their day. They regularly change over drivers at Scotstoun. A simple trial could be easily undertaken whilst E200evs and Yutongs are still in Glasgow
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Don't see why it would be an issue given McGill's seem to manage running theirs on the 23, 26 and 38 all day. I doubt the 2, 3 or 6 are much if any higher in terms of daily mileage. I reiterate the point, route length is irrelevant in all of this it's average speed and therefor daily mileage that is the deciding factor.
The issue there though is that you're needing a significantly higher number of vehicles to provide the same level of service.
The main issue with 1s is that low bridge at the bottom of Kilbowie Road and I wouldn't make the routes any longer by diverting them up and along Second Avenue then down Duntocher Road. The 1D, even on a 20 minute frequency Monday to Saturday and now every 40 minute frequency on a Sunday, isn't exactly loaded with passengers between Mountblow and Clydebank outside of certain times.
It would certainly make a lot of sense for Scotstoun to trial the Yutongs while they're here. Hopefully, this current order of E200EVs is the last as the Yutongs are vastly superior in every way. E400EVs for the 1C and 1D would certainly be good for peak times especially the 1C in the morning as they can be full towards the City Centre before they've even got onto Dumbarton Road.
The big issue for the 2,3 and 6 is that the west end of Glasgow has roadworks for the next year at least due to the council installing a cycle lane up Byres Road. Dumbarton Road and Great Western Road aren't roads for getting decent speeds at the best of times due to the level of traffic too. There aren't many areas across all 3 routes where speed can be easily built up.
The other issue I see with the 2 and 6 especially is the dead mileage involved by Scotstoun running all of both. According to Google Maps, Scotstoun depot to Calderwood is 13 miles, and to Baillieston is also 13 miles.
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There's no real reason for the 1s to serve Whitecrook and Clydebank Bus Station. With many other options using Whitecrook and Barns Street. The 1s can easily use Glasgow Road avoiding the Kilbowie Road bridge. Which would also serve the new Heakth Centre and Clydebank College.
Using E400s on the 1s would provably mean less vehicles and scarce drivers
The 1D on its own through Whitecrook, especially at peak times, wouldn't work with how busy they get without extra buses running. I know that I've certainly seen buses close to full or busier leaving Clydebank at peak times in both directions. The 1/1A/1B also do get a decent amount of passengers from the City Centre to Clydebank Shopping Centre too. As much as they probably should be switched to be more direct, the idea of 2 buses anywhere would make people ditch the bus. It shouldn't do that but it always does here unfortunately.
More direct routes with orbital services to fill in the gaps would certainly be a handy way to help with reliability and create new links.
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ScotRail158725
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Yes there is, the 1s main custom is these areas and the buses that connect onto it to Faifley/Duntocher who use the fast option into town
JumpinTrainz
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My theory is that after the success of the Yutongs in Glasgow - an order will be made in the very near future for more Yutongs (in Scotstoun at least) thus pushing some of the E200EVs out eventually. They just don’t have the range and it’s baffling the order was made in the first place especially given Aberdeen got Yutongs so it could have been just one big order. I imagine there will be a lot of swapping of buses in and out in the meantime which is no effective way to run services.
I’m just welcoming new stock on my local route the 2. It’s been over 10 years now since new buses were ordered for the route and now it can see anything on it. I’m also very interested in the drop in capacity. Since Covid the 2 has seen mainly deckers so to see it return to singles again will be interesting. I wonder if like Caledonia’s routes we’ll see a mixture of new E200EVs and E300s?
I’m thinking once the electric goes live at Scotstoun the 77 and 6A might be upgraded as they are busy routes. The current E400EVs could cope pretty well on those routes I’d imagine. The new generation buses would be very much welcomed, however, for routes like 2, 3 and 6 (if they came in low height form). The current low height E400s are ageing.
Customers wanting to connect for Faifley can change in Yoker. Those for Duntocher can easily get off at Glasgow Road and walk the 100m of Alexander Street. So hardly life changing, Just habit changing. For that matter the Duntocher 81 could be routed from Kilbowie Road. to Glasgow Road and access its terminus from there, it could even terminate at Clydebank Collrge.
There are far too many services servng Chambers Street in any case causing congestion at the stop there.
Of course other options could be putting Faifley into the 1s options.
Clydebank really does need a proper bus station but it would need to be quite big with plenty of stances given the amount of buses in the area.
voidwxrranty
Member
The 3 could really benefit from the 400ev’s at peak, and evenings (I was on one last night, and we were full and standing by Jamaica Street, i got on at Sauchiehall Street.)
Yutongs could also end up on 8’s and 16’s if bought, 90’s as well. I’m aware Scotstoun have a few 1 duty’s, Yutongs could do those too, that 300 mile range opens a lot of doors for First, I’d love to see First invest in them more.
The 3 seems really inconsistent off peak but from around 3pm onwards especially from the City Centre to Drumchapel, it can be incredibly busy. The 3 I got earlier was an E400 and there was at least 2 or 3 more double deckers on the 3 today. The only way I don't see double deckers being required at any point of service is if the frequency is able to increase to every 10 or 12 minutes again. The 8, 16 and 90 seem to see the odd double decker here and there too and the X4 seems to have at least one a day now from what I've seen. There was also a day with 2 double deckers on the M60 too. I can't remember the exact day though. I also seen an E200 on the 1 earlier too.
With Yutongs available, they have to be the preferred option over E200EVs now. The range difference is just far too vast for E200EVs to be worth it. I doubt the depots would want to limit themselves either with vehicles being unsuitable for longer routes.
JumpinTrainz
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I understand the pressures First face to order from local manufacturers and their good relationship with ADL but it begs the question why First have ordered so many BYD/ADL E200EVs.
I imagine an order for the new generation E400EVs will be on the cards in the very near future. Hopefully Scotstoun sees them for the 2 and 3 or at best the 77 goes electric and the current 77 branded E400MMCs are run alongside the EVs.
Buzby
Member
Anyone travelled on the 77 recently? Every few minutes it plays out a ‘passenger information safety announcement’ where it (incorrectly) states that passengers are REQUIRED to wear masks whilst travelling. SPT seem to play the message at Buchanan Bus Station saying that masks are ‘recommended’ which I have no problem with, but the 77 message is happily ignored by most passengers these days, but why has this anomaly not been rectified on the 77’s?
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Seems to be a bit hit and miss on individual buses. Some have had the software updated and don't play the outof date announcement. Other still have not been uodated many months after it is not necessary. Most passengers just tend to ignore the our of date information.
Maybe some Cally buses will be wrapped in it, it probably depends where the most driver shortages are. While on the subject what is the driver shortage situation like, as First seem to be heavily promoting “Drivers Wanted”.
Strathclyder
Established Member
Chalmers St is the main issue here and has been for at least 20 years. Even a hypothetical switch back to the layover bays wouldn't be adequate given the amount of services passing through even nowadays (with or without chronic late-running and bunching which is when Chalmers St' issues are brought into the sharpest relief). The former Playdrome site is the only site I can really think of that would be suitable for building a replacement bus station between the railway line and the canal, but the chances of that happening, at least in the short/medium term, is slim at best.
For the record, if anyone thinks it's bad nowadays, hoo boy, the 2005-2010 period was one step short of a free-for-all. First, Avondale, McKindless, DB Travel, PD Travel, McColl's, John Morrow, Glasgow Citybus/West Coast Motors & Arriva all funnelled their services through Chalmers during that period. Loosely organized chaos would be a charitable description.
Has effectively been done once before in the pre-The One era to my knowledge, that being the 217.
Hypothetically, if I were to extend any of the Clydebank Locals anywhere (at least on a trial basis), it would be the 81 to Linnvale. It would provide a more frequent service for this rather poorly served part of Clydebank (yes, Drumry station is right there, but bus-wise it's a bit lacking) and would free up some valuable space at the bus station. But I can't see it happening personally.
Buzby
Member
I’ve managed a 100% success rate on the 77. That’s around 10 so far. The flip side is that if the incorrect messaging continues over a year since the rules changed, they’ll find punters will ignore all messaging for the same reason.
There are plans in the pipeline for a new Clydebank bus station, taking in the car park behind the credit union using the big car park behind the market hall. The area at the old playdrome has been bough by Miller Homes.
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Not heard much of the passenger info voice on the E400MMCs, has it been disabled?
Buzby
Member
ALL the 77’s I’ve been on were 400MMC’s with the announcement - around 10 in total out to IKEA and the Kelvin Hall. The non-77 400’s are silent, so I think it’s a route specific issue!
Hopefully this does become a thing in the next couple of years at worst because it's badly needed. The current bus station would be difficult to repurpose due it being used for driver breaks and due to the fact it's just nowhere near busy enough.
On another note, the E400EV 38450 is now in the "drivers wanted" livery too. How many more vehicles will end up in this livery now that Caledonia and Blantyre depots both have one now?
voidwxrranty
Member
Yep, 67713 goes up in its place, 713 received paint over the last week.