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First Group get the GW Franchise

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Mojo

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I find it incredibly difficult to see how First can afford over £1bn
 
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bloogrape

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my last post was lame.

I am overwhelmed that First Group have won. another seven years cant be to bad. from when i was a kid i allways looked upto SWT as the main railway company.

I hadnt known any better nor did i care, after moving closer to Reading i realised that they was as equal as First Great Western. thinking about it i beleive First group have got there ideas right. There hst routes are also fantastic.

I am a little bit bitter at SWT but i cannot let that judge my idea on a modern railway, First Group all the way!
 

Angus

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Mojo said:
Angus, Bus operators are not contracted for most services, they run services under the 1985 Transport Act on a commercial basis. Councils have the responsibility to keep some non-commercially viable services running, and they are contracted to whoever bids for it.

The Traffic Commissioner can revoke liscences but a total removal is extremely rare, and I believe it's never happnned before.

Thankyou for explaining that. So basically First will run Sheffield's buses for the indefinite future then? Even more reason to move as far away as I can possibly get.
 

bloogrape

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Angus said:
Mojo said:
Angus, Bus operators are not contracted for most services, they run services under the 1985 Transport Act on a commercial basis. Councils have the responsibility to keep some non-commercially viable services running, and they are contracted to whoever bids for it.

The Traffic Commissioner can revoke liscences but a total removal is extremely rare, and I believe it's never happnned before.

Thankyou for explaining that. So basically First will run Sheffield's buses for the indefinite future then? Even more reason to move as far away as I can possibly get.

there bus service no good?
if anything time will make things better as they learn right!?
 

Techniquest

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Judging First on the experience of First in Sheffield isn't a great idea in my mind.

Having read the thread again, it's no surprise First got it. They learnt from GNER, in that they know they have to pay to run a premier franchise such as GW. 'You scrub my back, I scrub yours'. It's how GNER did it, First have every right to do it too. Besides, with their franchises and bus operations, I daresay premiums will be paid no trouble.
 

joeholmes

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1. Doubtfull, not enough units
2. With 165's so I have been told (they didn't admit only 2 WC - Paddy HST's will stop there now
3. They will run out of 165's
4. '' '' '' '' '' '' '' '' ''
5. what is the point
6. Ouch, that is pushing it
7. unlkiely

Jim for "goodness" sake stop being so doubtfull. Give them a chance at least! <(

Joe
 

Jim

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joeholmes said:
1. Doubtfull, not enough units
2. With 165's so I have been told (they didn't admit only 2 WC - Paddy HST's will stop there now
3. They will run out of 165's
4. '' '' '' '' '' '' '' '' ''
5. what is the point
6. Ouch, that is pushing it
7. unlkiely

Jim for "goodness" sake stop being so doubtfull. Give them a chance at least! <(

Joe

Look here Mr First. Most of that is true. Don't you feal sorry for me. I am losing HST's on my Westbury service. The 185's won't be in FULL service until Jan 2007. What will they do? If that is the way you feel about my train service, I hope you get a tin Rocket on Maidenhead - Marlow :lol: ;) They are allready short on 158's. I don't like 2 coach trains on Portsmouth - Cardiff. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they DO put 153's on the London area branches, after all, they need to get some 165's for my WSB - Pad service. I bet they will cut Melksham back, as they won't have enough Stock. My Pad - WSB service will be stopping everywhere. I can't see that I will pay £84 or however much a peak RTN is to sit on a 165! I can do Waterloo peak hour on a 159 :D for £22 (i is Adult RTN) Let see what you have to say then Mr. First :roll:

Not to Mod's= I am not provoking him, just shopwing my side of the story
 

joeholmes

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Jim, they will be replaced by 180s (to which First group are leasing some more) and Semi Fast 166 unitis! They will not run out due to the will use more CL180s on Semi Fast routes and keep the strain of the the 16Xs.

Ok, they are expensive, fares that is, but you understand now that we have to pay not only in taxes but in fares the re-generation of the HSTs, the relaying of old track too accomadate the HSTs and all First Rolling Stock and key now to the fare structure is the upkeep of the "night riveria".

First group are the only company to admit that they have had to rise fares due fuel prices and shortages etc. First Great Western are a rail company to which on run on Desiel fuel. Think of the cost, and yes, unfortunatly, the tax payer & and fare payer has to pay for it. Unfortunatly there is no way around this due to the GWML throught to Penzance not being albe to be electricified because of National Protection reasons. This is why electric train running out of Waterloo etc are cheaper. Also from Pad-Rdg you are paying for the speed over Wat-Rdg.

All your other problems such as Portsmouth - Cardiff trains are something that only the general public can bring to the attention of First Group PLC. Jim if you feel so strongly about this (which you evidently do) write to them and adress the situation.

J.Holmes
 

Mojo

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Leasing some more 180s from where? There aren't any more and I doubt if First would choose Alstom again for a new train build.

First putting up their prices because of Fuel? Don't think so - they recently announced that they have smaller profits, any company in a competitive market (supermarkets, etc.) would have frozen or lowered their prices to encourage more people to choose them, in effect rail & bus companies have a monopoly - they can charge what they want and some people will still use them as they have no choice.
The real reason for the fare increases on the buses is the dwindling number of passengers owing to poor service, the fact that the Traffic Commissioner is imposing penalties and revoking licenses due to shabby service and also the fact that First want to protect their profits. On the rails it's a similar story, except passenger numbers have been going up.

Re: FGWFan, I doubt if they actually were selected because of that - it's probably because they did the cheapest bid.
 

joeholmes

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First Group have specifically said that they have HAD to increase rail fares for the fuel prices. See last months RAIL

First great western ARE getting more CL180s and that a Fact ok!
See www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk
 

Sprog

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Jim said:
Look here Mr First. Most of that is true. Don't you feal sorry for me. I am losing HST's on my Westbury service

Well, if you want tostart getting personal, then cant you feel HAPPY for me?! With fGW getting the franchise again, the likehood of me getting an aprenticeship as a fitter at SPM (The Marsh) has increased dramatically.

Im very happy that First got it. They have franchise commitments and it is my bet that they will go above and beyond these commitments.

If they dont, i will be the first to slate them, but give them a god-dammed chance/ Now that they have the frnachise again, they are bound to commit to miore things, wheres, before they where unsure about their future. It makes perfect sense. For example-would you completly re-decorate your house, knowing that a week or so later, you would bwe evicted from it. NO, so why should First have ploughed all ts resources into GW if it was only going to loose it to National (Dist)ress and let them reap the beifits.........!!!????
 

Guinness

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One way of First getting more 165s is that they get them off Chiltern if Chiltern Railways leases more 168s which along with the 180s idea have to be built. First are going to have to tread carefully over the duration of the next few years and deliver there promises some way or another. But there is one thing I believe that will happen, the Penzance Sleeper will go. Firsts Management and their Shareholders aren't daft, they all want profitable services and according to the DfT, the Sleeper is losing £2m a year. The solution of Higher Fares seems to be the only feasable way of saving it but I personally think it will lose passengers who will turn to Coaches or Driving + Hotel.

To conclude as I've said before, First will need to act and rethink their promises to satisfy Demand, Tax Payers, Passengers and their Bank Balance.
 
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Tom

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joeholmes said:
First Group have specifically said that they have HAD to increase rail fares for the fuel prices. See last months RAIL

First great western ARE getting more CL180s and that a Fact ok!
See www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk

I have looked on FGWs site and I can find no trace of them mentioning that they are recieving more Adelantes, perhaps you would care to tell us where you know this information is?

A quick look on Angel Trains also gives no mention. The new build page (http://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Rolling-Stock/new-build-projects.asp) shows nothing, neither does their press release page.

Chaz, in the franchise commitment First has mentioned that it will retain the Motorail and sleeper service to / from Penzance.
 

Z12XE

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A more than 20% morning peak increase in seats between Reading and London and more than 30% in the evening peak through investments in the fleet, more rolling stock and improved timetabling.

I assume he's picked up that comment and got the wrong end of it. I assume that means that because FGW will be using the HSTs purchased by First, the 180s can be redeployed totally elsewhere, in this case on FGWL
 

Jim

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spm I don't think you are getting the point :roll: How has them getting it helped in your work expierence, what about the passengers ;) At the end of the day, my real point is, I ain't paying £84 for a 165 to Paddy. I think Westbury will make a real loss on this, for others to gain, I know there will be some winners & lossers.

To me, putting a 165 on Westbury - Paddy is like a 153 doing Penzance - Dundee

Joe, if you can prove to me they will be leasing more 180's please do so. They ain't gonna build any (they will be ready for the next bid :roll: ;) ) & there isn't any spare

Chaz: Higher Fares. Can they get much higher?!

If First do something to Bristol like they do to London (open RTN's) I for 1 won't get the train.

I am all for them winning it, as I love HST's but I don't feel that they will make my (keep saying that :roll: ) service any better
 

Tom B

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Come on, why hasn't the MMC stepped in? I wouldn't mind but as well as monopoising the transport market they make a dog's dinner of it (thus I suppose they must remain a monopoly or noone will use them)
 

Techniquest

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Jim said:
joeholmes said:
1. Doubtfull, not enough units
2. With 165's so I have been told (they didn't admit only 2 WC - Paddy HST's will stop there now
3. They will run out of 165's
4. '' '' '' '' '' '' '' '' ''
5. what is the point
6. Ouch, that is pushing it
7. unlkiely

Jim for "goodness" sake stop being so doubtfull. Give them a chance at least! <(

Joe

Look here Mr First. Most of that is true. Don't you feal sorry for me. I am losing HST's on my Westbury service. The 185's won't be in FULL service until Jan 2007. What will they do? If that is the way you feel about my train service, I hope you get a tin Rocket on Maidenhead - Marlow :lol: ;) They are allready short on 158's. I don't like 2 coach trains on Portsmouth - Cardiff. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they DO put 153's on the London area branches, after all, they need to get some 165's for my WSB - Pad service. I bet they will cut Melksham back, as they won't have enough Stock. My Pad - WSB service will be stopping everywhere. I can't see that I will pay £84 or however much a peak RTN is to sit on a 165! I can do Waterloo peak hour on a 159 :D for £22 (i is Adult RTN) Let see what you have to say then Mr. First :roll:

Not to Mod's= I am not provoking him, just shopwing my side of the story

Mr. Wessex Junior, be quiet.

For one, it is not YOUR service. It's FGW's service, or the DfT's service. Boo-hoo, you're going to lose HSTs on the service. Everytime I suggested you took FGW instead of SWT, it was no to that, SWT being cheaper and easier. Well tough cheese, you like the SWT route so much, carry on using it. Besides, having Turbos on it is hardly that bad. Granted, it's not the best, but tough. What you've got to remember is you actually have trains to London, and trains at all. I don't have any within 14 miles here, so there. I only have 4 FGW/FGWL trains a day in each direction too, those being from Hereford, 21 miles away. Be grateful for the fact you have some rail service!

185s aren't to be used on GW either...

153s on London area branches, I'd be up for that! You find an operator willing to give them away though...

Re: fares, why pay £84 to go to London? That's absurd. There are ways to avoid paying that much AND go FGW.

Oh yes, and there's not many people who like 2-coach Portsmouth trains, especially at peak times in Cardiff and Bristol. Off-peak, 2 coaches is just right. But tough cheese, you don't like it, don't travel. Most people don't care what train they have, so long as they get there and don't have to stand for long, if at all.

Finally, Joe Holmes isn't Mr. First, I am.
 

AlexS

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153s are very useful versatile units - a lot of operators wouldn't let them go.

185s will free up 158s. However, most of the TOCs in the country will want a slice of the action, as it were. Great Western will want some I'm sure, as do Arriva, Central Trains, SWT etc etc.
 

lev441

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good for Greater Western franchise.. I never travel with them... But for them getting the thameslink franchise? they are <( <( <( <( Why did they give it to first!!?! ahhhhhh :x :x :(
 

Simming

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AlexS said:
153s are very useful versatile units - a lot of operators wouldn't let them go.

Yea, Wessex like using them on peak long distance trains, so the chances of them being used elsewhere is rare :roll:
 

Jim

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FGWFan said:
Mr. Wessex Junior, be quiet.

1.For one, it is not YOUR service. It's FGW's service, or the DfT's service. Boo-hoo, you're going to lose HSTs on the service. Everytime I suggested you took FGW instead of SWT, it was no to that, SWT being cheaper and easier. Well tough cheese, you like the SWT route so much, carry on using it. Besides, having Turbos on it is hardly that bad. Granted, it's not the best, but tough. What you've got to remember is you actually have trains to London, and trains at all. I don't have any within 14 miles here, so there. I only have 4 FGW/FGWL trains a day in each direction too, those being from Hereford, 21 miles away. Be grateful for the fact you have some rail service!

2. 185s aren't to be used on GW either...

3. 153s on London area branches, I'd be up for that! You find an operator willing to give them away though...

4. fares, why pay £84 to go to London? That's absurd. There are ways to avoid paying that much AND go FGW.

5. Oh yes, and there's not many people who like 2-coach Portsmouth trains, especially at peak times in Cardiff and Bristol. Off-peak, 2 coaches is just right. But tough cheese, you don't like it, don't travel. Most people don't care what train they have, so long as they get there and don't have to stand for long, if at all.

1. I am still adamant that I won't want to go on a 165. Great,bring on a 166 (with working air con) on that route


2. If you read it CAREFULLY you will find what Alex has put

3. Good, I would love to see 153's go there, get rid of the nasty things here. Give me a 165 for a 153 anyday :shock:

4. Please PM me the instructions

5.The whole point is to get MORE people travelling on trains. Some will be SO packed, you won't be ABLE to get on

& FFS, I have allready posted I should not be personlising it, no need to make it in to a dogs dinner :roll:
 

Jim

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Please, don't get me wrong, I AM GLAD first WON it instead of Nat Distress ;) I WAS MERALY pointing out to 'Chris M' that these things are unlikely to happen, or not work. Great, HST's to stay, I am EVER so please about that, BUT not on WSB - PAD which is to my disapointment. That is the ONLY reason I am AGAINST first on this
 

yorkie

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But London-Westbury stoppers was not First's decision.

Have you only just found out about it? :shock:

The SRA had specified this service, and all bidders were instructed to comply with the SRA's demands. This is one of the most (if not the most?) detailed specifications for a franchise ever.

There are many advantages to the new service as some stations will benefit greatly, perhaps not Westbury itself, I've not studied it in detail bu I know some people will lose out while others gain. The idea being that the majority should see gains.
 

ChrisM

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Jim said:
I WAS MERALY pointing out to 'Chris M' that these things are unlikely to happen, or not work.
To be honest i couldn't careless if they work or not,i just thought thoses plans/ideas were 'interesting' after reading a few articles on some of those routes over the last few years.
2/3 car units on Cardiff to Portsmouth services have always been stupid and between Southampton and Bristol TM you would be lucky to get a seat unless you have reserved one.
 
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