First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Andyh82]

Having looked closely at the Mousehole route this week, I do wonder if the new fleet will have sufficient capacity as at present some journeys are carrying full loads. Also do think it's a great pity the open sided vehicles never came to fruition as think they'd have worked very well - does anybody know why they never ran?

They’ve already increased the frequency and can only buy the small buses that are available in the current market.

Surely the only real way to boost capacity is to use full sized buses and stop serving the harbour which nobody wants to see them do. Similar small fishing villages like Fowey, Mevagissey, Port Isaac etc don’t have buses right onto the harbour front, but the fact they are buying bespoke new vehicles shows they obviously see this feature as important.

 

[Goldfish62]

They’ve already increased the frequency and can only buy the small buses that are available in the current market.

Surely the only real way to boost capacity is to use full sized buses and stop serving the harbour which nobody wants to see them do. Similar small fishing villages like Fowey, Mevagissey, Port Isaac etc don’t have buses right onto the harbour front, but the fact they are buying bespoke new vehicles shows they obviously see this feature as important.

Agreed.

People who say the buses shouldn't serve the harbour are those who don't realise that after PZ bus station it's probably the busiest stop on the route and serves a lot of residents as well as visitors.

 

[GBM]

First time visitors are always amazed at how close the bus is to the walls on entering/leaving the harbour. "Our drivers wouldn't be doing that" is a constant comment.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Has anyone considered the nuclear option - which is to bulldoze all the houses and build a bypass straight to the harbour?

 

[Andyh82]

They could have converted the service to double deck, maybe even open tops - “Mousehole Coaster” and stopped serving the harbour

People would have to walk down like they do in Fowey

 

[Goldfish62]

They could have converted the service to double deck, maybe even open tops - “Mousehole Coaster” and stopped serving the harbour

They could have done, but why? There's nothing particularly scenic about the route apart from Mousehole Harbour.

The combination of not serving the harbour and a reduced frequency from using larger vehicles would undoubtedly damage the route.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2023 ==

People would have to walk down like they do in Fowey

Or, the people who live there have to walk almost a quarter of a mile including up a steep hill. Wonderful.

I noticed an elderly local with two walking sticks and clearly not at all mobile get on the bus at the harbour the other day. They'd obviously have to get a taxi if the buses were stopped.

 

[Busaholic]

They could have done, but why? There's nothing particularly scenic about the route apart from Mousehole Harbour.

The combination of not serving the harbour and a reduced frequency from using larger vehicles would undoubtedly damage the route.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jun 2023 ==


Or, the people who live there have to walk almost a quarter of a mile including up a steep hill. Wonderful.

I noticed an elderly local with two walking sticks and clearly not at all mobile get on the bus at the harbour the other day. They'd obviously have to get a taxi if the buses were stopped.

Being slightly facetious here, bur seeing how the whole area has been invaded at least part-time by media luvvies from the Smoke, what chance of a premium boat service linking Mousehole and Penzance Harbours? The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company have decades of experience persuading visitors to part with eyewatering amounts of money for travelling grimly over Mounts Bay, and you could always throw in the possibility of seeing a school of dolphins for no extra charge.

 

[buscoaster]

Being slightly facetious here, bur seeing how the whole area has been invaded at least part-time by media luvvies from the Smoke, what chance of a premium boat service linking Mousehole and Penzance Harbours? The Isles of Scilly Steamship Company have decades of experience persuading visitors to part with eyewatering amounts of money for travelling grimly over Mounts Bay, and you could always throw in the possibility of seeing a school of dolphins for no extra charge.

Love it! I do think a capacity of just 17 seated passengers is nowhere near sufficient though - I would have thought something like a Mellor Strata could have been a better vehicle choice

 

[Andyh82]

They could have done, but why?

The original point being there allegedly not being enough capacity on the minibuses


A question about the other far extremity of the Kernow area, do they still outstation buses at Plymouth Citybus depot in Plymouth, and if they do, anyone know how many?

 

[richw]

Love it! I do think a capacity of just 17 seated passengers is nowhere near sufficient though - I would have thought something like a Mellor Strata could have been a better vehicle choice

A Mellor Strata was route tested and couldn’t get in to the village. May as well operate double deckers if they can’t get in.

 

[Accelerator59]

A Mellor Strata was route tested and couldn’t get in to the village. May as well operate double deckers if they can’t get in.

Definitely too wide. I drive a delivery van and can only just get round the corners in Mousehole.

 

[LAIRA]

The original point being there allegedly not being enough capacity on the minibuses


A question about the other far extremity of the Kernow area, do they still outstation buses at Plymouth Citybus depot in Plymouth, and if they do, anyone know how many?

Yes they do. 2 deckers and 1 mini usually but sometimes a coach as well.

 

[E-Rail]

Where do the deckers turn at Mousehole? Do they reverse into the car park entrance and wait there?

 

[Goldfish62]

Where do the deckers turn at Mousehole? Do they reverse into the car park entrance and wait there?

Reverse up Parkyn Road then stop on double yellows beyond. It's not even the Coastguards stop - it's beyond there.

The reason that double deckers turn up at Newlyn empty Penzance bound and the next bus is often rammed is because everyone is waiting at the harbour stop, because that's where they want to get on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jun 2023 ==

Love it! I do think a capacity of just 17 seated passengers is nowhere near sufficient though - I would have thought something like a Mellor Strata could have been a better vehicle choice

I think the overall capacity is around 25, v 35 for the Solos. At the respective 4 and 3 buses per hour that gives around the same capacity. I think the pinch points will be on weekday early mornings when the service is 2bph.

What doesn't help at the moment is the service unreliability, with gaps and bunching causing some overloading. Once a bus starts running late there's little scope in the schedules for recovery.

 

[E-Rail]

Reverse up Parkyn Road then stop on double yellows beyond. It's not even the Coastguards stop - it's beyond there.

Thanks for that. I did think looking at the map that it must miss that stop too.

 

[Stephen1001]

Funny how ideas come and go. Some years ago, half of the Mousehole service on summer Sundays was timetabled to use full-size buses and turn short of the harbour. These journeys interworked the 17 from St Ives so were often double-deck, as in this picture on Flickr from 2014.

Study the timetable for First Kernow's Penzance -Mousehole service and you spot the summer Sunday extras don't run to the harbour. This seems to be to allow normal size buses to work those journeys, interworking with service 17 to St. Ives for operational efficiency.

(Linked image shows a Volvo Olympian leaving Penzance bus station displaying "6 Mousehole via Newlyn".)

 

[Goldfish62]

Funny how ideas come and go. Some years ago, half of the Mousehole service on summer Sundays was timetabled to use full-size buses and turn short of the harbour. These journeys interworked the 17 from St Ives so were often double-deck, as in this picture on Flickr from 2014.



(Linked image shows a Volvo Olympian leaving Penzance bus station displaying "6 Mousehole via Newlyn".)

That was a one-off Summer Sunday enhancement for one season only. Needless to say loadings were not good and all journeys went to the harbour thereafter.

 

[Stephen1001]

That was a one-off Summer Sunday enhancement for one season only. Needless to say loadings were not good and all journeys went to the harbour thereafter.

Thanks - thought it didn't last long but forgot it was only one year. Seems like a pretty strong argument that the model they've chosen going forward is the correct one.

 

[Goldfish62]

Thanks - thought it didn't last long but forgot it was only one year. Seems like a pretty strong argument that the model they've chosen going forward is the correct one.

I believe it is, they believe it is, but that doesn't seem to stop a lot people on here thinking it's wrong.

 

[padbus]

The new ADL E100EV will be 8.50 metres long with 4.50m wheelbase, 2.35 m wide and 3.1m high. It will have 25 seats (or 22 plus one wheelchair user) and a total capacity of up to 45. How does that compare with the Bristol LHs that used to go to Mousehole? Could it be contender when when the time comes to go electric?

 

[83G/84D]

The new ADL E100EV will be 8.50 metres long with 4.50m wheelbase, 2.35 m wide and 3.1m high. It will have 25 seats (or 22 plus one wheelchair user) and a total capacity of up to 45. How does that compare with the Bristol LHs that used to go to Mousehole? Could it be contender when when the time comes to go electric?

I wonder if this electric bus would fit? Anyone know the dimensions?
(Image shows a Mellor Sigma 8)

 

[Busaholic]

The Camborne and Redruth constituency has announced the Conservative candidate to replace George 'Useless' Eustice at the next election, and it's the Cabinet Member for Transportation at Cornwall Council, a 26 year old by the name of Donnithorne (sorry, forgotten his first name.) Given the incredible amounts of our money CC has wasted on Newquay Airport, always making the wrong decision in recent years if more than one was available, particularly under the Tories, I'd have thought a serious case could and should be made for Transport for Cornwall to fund a suitable spare bus for use on the Mousehole service, retaining ownership of it and leasing it to First at a reasonable charge. I am seriously considering proposing this in local media, and now I'm out and about again, though with very restricted mobility, will be recording loadings and observations in Market Jew Street and Greenmarket, Mousehole bound. Yesterday I saw several at the Greenmarket stop unable to board a Mousehole, though some took a TfC no 5 later. I might even go and sit on the round seat and do some vox pop. shouldn't alarm too many people to get an old codger with a stick, two bandaged legs and obviously NHS special footwear engaging them in conversation!

 

[GusB]

I wonder if this electric bus would fit? Anyone know the dimensions?View attachment 137750
(Image shows a Mellor Sigma 8)

SIGMA RANGE - Mellor Bus

www.mellorbus.com

Length

8725/9400

Width

2350/2350

Height

3100

Wheelbase

4650/5325

Front overhang

2380

Rear overhang

1695

The Sigma 7 is narrower at 2.105m.

 

[Goldfish62]

The new ADL E100EV will be 8.50 metres long with 4.50m wheelbase, 2.35 m wide and 3.1m high. It will have 25 seats (or 22 plus one wheelchair user) and a total capacity of up to 45. How does that compare with the Bristol LHs that used to go to Mousehole? Could it be contender when when the time comes to go electric?

The LHSs were 8m by 2.3m wide. The largest of the current Solos is 7.8m x 2.4m. Both vehicles are a very snug fit.

I don't think the E100 would fit.

 

[Peter Philips]

I also noticed on my trip (and again today) that one working is a green closed top SD streetlite that works Porlock school route 10, which First's website shows only completes its morning service at 0838 before doing the 0830 Exmoor Coaster to Lynmouth with a late start, the 0930 back from Lynmouth & then a zero minute turnaround the 1030 to Lynmouth again. So is there a shortage of open tops at Minehead or is this a permanent school day arrangement not mentioned in the timetable?

Oddly today whilst Streetlite 55108 only worked school Porlock route 10, the 0830/0930/1030 etc Exmoor Coaster is still operated by a closed-top single deck - Olympia livery E200 44509 for variety according to tracking but at least with a right time start rather than 16 minutes late start 55108 had yesterday due to the overlap between the two routes. So it does possibly suggest more of an open-top vehicle shortage, at least today (possibly driver & vehicle on all the previous occasions)?

 

[Goldfish62]

The Camborne and Redruth constituency has announced the Conservative candidate to replace George 'Useless' Eustice at the next election, and it's the Cabinet Member for Transportation at Cornwall Council, a 26 year old by the name of Donnithorne (sorry, forgotten his first name.) Given the incredible amounts of our money CC has wasted on Newquay Airport, always making the wrong decision in recent years if more than one was available, particularly under the Tories, I'd have thought a serious case could and should be made for Transport for Cornwall to fund a suitable spare bus for use on the Mousehole service, retaining ownership of it and leasing it to First at a reasonable charge. I am seriously considering proposing this in local media, and now I'm out and about again, though with very restricted mobility, will be recording loadings and observations in Market Jew Street and Greenmarket, Mousehole bound. Yesterday I saw several at the Greenmarket stop unable to board a Mousehole, though some took a TfC no 5 later. I might even go and sit on the round seat and do some vox pop. shouldn't alarm too many people to get an old codger with a stick, two bandaged legs and obviously NHS special footwear engaging them in conversation!

I didn't know "Useless" was standing down so you've just made my day.

The journeys via the town centre and Alverton are definitely the busiest, unsurprisingly. Ideally all four journeys an hour would go that way, but that would require a 4th bus and driver as I think you've correctly identified.

What is amazing is how passenger numbers appear to have grown - even winter Sundays can now have decent loadings. It just shows how much attractive frequencies attract extra passenger journeys. A lesson of course learned way back in the 1980s with the "minibus revolution".

 

[RELL6L]

Oddly today whilst Streetlite 55108 only worked school Porlock route 10, the 0830/0930/1030 etc Exmoor Coaster is still operated by a closed-top single deck - Olympia livery E200 44509 for variety according to tracking but at least with a right time start rather than 16 minutes late start 55108 had yesterday due to the overlap between the two routes. So it does possibly suggest more of an open-top vehicle shortage, at least today (possibly driver & vehicle on all the previous occasions)?

It is odd that they would use the vehicle off the 10 onto the 08.30 start on the Exmoor Coaster when there is a 28 board that appears to start at 08.45, much more sensible, that is what Streetlite 55108 has done today. However it will get back from Taunton at 15.29 off the 28 and appears to be required again for the 10 at 15.30 - if this is the only vehicle which can run the 10. We'll see what happens in 3 hours....

 

[Andyh82]

All the colours of the rainbow in Penzance yesterday



And then today unusual uniformity with three Lizards side by side


Yesterday all 3 buses on the Mousehole were Solos, today in the morning at least 2/3 were double decks

Also both buses on the Tin Coaster were ‘Tinner’ closed top double decks

 

[Busaholic]

All the colours of the rainbow in Penzance yesterday

View attachment 137825

And then today unusual uniformity with three Lizards side by side
View attachment 137826

Yesterday all 3 buses on the Mousehole were Solos, today in the morning at least 2/3 were double decks

Also both buses on the Tin Coaster were ‘Tinner’ closed top double decks

One of the double deckers on the Mousehole just before noon, totally empty, was flying along the Promenade Penzance bound and had gone past the Wharfside entrance as I came on to Ross Bridge, the vehicle behind it, but I was sticking to the 20 limit. Stupid driving.

 

[Goldfish62]

One of the d/ds on the Mousehole just before noon, totally empty, was flying along the Promenade Pz bound and had gone past the Wharfside entrance as I came on to Ross Bridge, the vehicle behind it, but I was sticking to the 20 limit. Stupid driving.

So it missed Mousehole Harbour and Alverton. Not surprising it was empty.

The new buses left Turkey three weeks ago. Have they got lost?