Fixed Penalty Notice

[Tetchytyke]

The fine isn't a payment for being caught, and it's definitely not a payment for someone else to pick it up for you.

Yes, it is a payment for being caught, and if the private Litter Gestapo are going to keep half the ticket price they can bloody well work for it.

 

[anti-pacer]

I saw a show a couple of years ago on TV, where they covered these law enforcement types. One of the law enforces was training a new girl up on litter fines. He basically spent all his day walking round looking for people smoking, watched them until they disposed of their tab ends. He said it's almost guaranteed that they'll drop them on the floor so their the best people to watch. basically said smokers are the easy targets.

Smokers know littering is illegal and risks a fine, so the easiest way to not be a target is not to litter.

It's really that simple!

 

[fowler9]

I don't understand. You were caught littering, which you admit was indefensible, but you then didn't pick up the litter you were caught dropping and are now annoyed that nobody else has done it for you?

What don't you understand? I stupidly dropped a dog end and admitted it. I was followed on to a train station and asked to pay £80 in recompense which I in no way protested. I wasn't made to clear up after myself and the people employed by the council clearly weren't so I effectively paid £80 to leave rubbish on the floor which was still there until 7 hours later when I voluntarily picked it up because I am basically a decent person. As such giving people a fixed penalty notice is purely an exercise in collecting money and has nothing to do with stopping littering.

 

[fowler9]

Can I just clarify. At no point are you made to clean up after yourself. The litter is left and you are followed to a convenient point to get your Fixed Penalty Notice. You are not asked or encouraged to clean up after yourself. I did clean up after myself 7 hours later when I was surprised that they hadn't done it themselves after tracking me down. I have at no point tried to claim I did nothing wrong.

 

[fowler9]

Smokers know littering is illegal and risks a fine, so the easiest way to not be a target is not to litter.

It's really that simple!

100% correct and I feel bad for having littered, especially on my own doorstep.

 

[507021]

He's been fined for doing the wrong thing, and has an opportunity to make amends. The fine isn't a payment for being caught, and it's definitely not a payment for someone else to pick it up for you.

Yes, but what is the point of giving him an £80 fine for littering and then asking him to pick it up afterwards? Surely the thing to do is offer the person who has littered the opportunity to go and pick it up before fining them, not after.

 

[Antman]

Smokers know littering is illegal and risks a fine, so the easiest way to not be a target is not to litter.

It's really that simple!

Or better still not to smoke:cry:!

Of course it's not quite as simple as that, the post about the youths dropping litter and nothing was done says it all.

 

[Antman]

Yes, but what is the point of giving him an £80 fine for littering and then asking him to pick it up afterwards? Surely the thing to do is offer the person who has littered the opportunity to go and pick it up before fining them, not after.

Well that's what a police officer would probably do but the council employee, or sub contractor, has a vested interest.

 

[ExRes]

I'd much rather walk through a days dog ends than have to put up with what comes out of the ends of dogs, in my area there are far too many disgusting dog owners although the council could perhaps help the problem by supplying either bins or fines

 

[Antman]

I'd much rather walk through a days dog ends than have to put up with what comes out of the ends of dogs, in my area there are far too many disgusting dog owners although the council could perhaps help the problem by supplying either bins or fines

As a dog owner myself I always carry a few poo bags with me and dispose of it appropriately.

Of course some of it may have come from foxes?

 

[Darandio]

Of course some of it may have come from foxes?

Not unless they have bagged it themselves!

I'll clarify. Increasingly I'm seeing more bags of poo discarded, this is in a varying range of places. Seems they pick it up then either haven't a bin to put it in, or they cannot be arsed to walk back to the nearest one or take it home. They throw it on the floor and the bag ends up tearing, we go back to square one.

 

[ExRes]

As a dog owner myself I always carry a few poo bags with me and dispose of it appropriately.

Of course some of it may have come from foxes?

Indeed and I know the majority behave in the same way that you do, that doesn't stop some from using the bags and then throwing them into peoples gardens or just simply walking away from Fido's unwanted little surprise

Again I see your second point, but if foxes are responsible for the amount left on my local pavements then Theresa May will get the repeal of the hunting ban through parliament rather easily .......

 

[Antman]

Not unless they have bagged it themselves!

I'll clarify. Increasingly I'm seeing more bags of poo discarded, this is in a varying range of places. Seems they pick it up then either haven't a bin to put it in, or they cannot be arsed to walk back to the nearest one or take it home. They throw it on the floor and the bag ends up tearing, we go back to square one.

Obviously not if it's in a bag and railway embankments seem to be a favourite place for throwing bagged up poo.

 

[Antman]

Indeed and I know the majority behave in the same way that you do, that doesn't stop some from using the bags and then throwing them into peoples gardens or just simply walking away from Fido's unwanted little surprise

Again I see your second point, but if foxes are responsible for the amount left on my local pavements then Theresa May will get the repeal of the hunting ban through parliament rather easily .......

Usually those who let the dog off the lead in the park and are so busy yapping on their phone that they don't notice, or pretend not to notice, what their dog is doing.

 

[anti-pacer]

100% correct and I feel bad for having littered, especially on my own doorstep.

But the good thing is you recognised it, you paid up and are unlikely to do it again.

So many people just don't give a ****. You clearly do mate, so good on you.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Not unless they have bagged it themselves!

I'll clarify. Increasingly I'm seeing more bags of poo discarded, this is in a varying range of places. Seems they pick it up then either haven't a bin to put it in, or they cannot be arsed to walk back to the nearest one or take it home. They throw it on the floor and the bag ends up tearing, we go back to square one.

That seems to happen alot. In fact there was an item about in I think Jeremy Vine on Radio two a week or so agin and it was mentioned again on Simon Mayo.

Some of the examples given were at a park or wood land. The dog did it's business and that was bagged, but as the owners did not want to walk around the park/woods with a full pooh bag, they hang it on a tree to collect and take home afterwards, the problem was that not everyone then returned and collected their bags. I have seen these in many locations, lovely trees, decorated with pooh bags, yuk, not nice anywhere and surprising in that part of London.

I also saw a large man let a dog drop one on a beach last week, he seemed not to have a bag with him and just scuffed a bit of sand on it. he could have at least buried it deeper.

 

[Antman]

That seems to happen alot. In fact there was an item about in I think Jeremy Vine on Radio two a week or so agin and it was mentioned again on Simon Mayo.

Some of the examples given were at a park or wood land. The dog did it's business and that was bagged, but as the owners did not want to walk around the park/woods with a full pooh bag, they hang it on a tree to collect and take home afterwards, the problem was that not everyone then returned and collected their bags. I have seen these in many locations, lovely trees, decorated with pooh bags, yuk, not nice anywhere and surprising in that part of London.

I also saw a large man let a dog drop one on a beach last week, he seemed not to have a bag with him and just scuffed a bit of sand on it. he could have at least buried it deeper.

He probably assumed that the tide would get rid of it later? Poo bags hanging from trees is quite common in my local park, people probably think they've done their bit by bagging it and that the park keeper will do the rest at some point?

 

[fowler9]

But the good thing is you recognised it, you paid up and are unlikely to do it again.

So many people just don't give a ****. You clearly do mate, so good on you.

Cheers mate, I remember reading Bill Brysons "Notes From A Small Island". Whe he got to Liverpool he says something along the lines of "They held a litter festival for me". Now I am quite proud of my city and that was embarrassing.

 

[fowler9]

He probably assumed that the tide would get rid of it later? Poo bags hanging from trees is quite common in my local park, people probably think they've done their bit by bagging it and that the park keeper will do the rest at some point?

Down where I work in South Liverpool and where my ex used to live by Victoria Park in Warrington it was terrible for Poo Baubles as my ex's dad called them. By where I live is quite well catered for with bins (No excuse for my indiscretion) and dog poo bins in the parks but where I work and oddly enough in Warringtons Victoria Park there is a dearth of bins which whilst no excuse possibly explains it.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Use a receptacle/bin for your cigarette ends, not the floor. Simple really isn't it?

 

[Darandio]

Use a receptacle/bin for your cigarette ends, not the floor. Simple really isn't it?

Not really much need for that.

It's nearly a week after the thread started, the OP has repeatedly said they make no excuses and simply hold their hands up.

 

[Antman]

Use a receptacle/bin for your cigarette ends, not the floor. Simple really isn't it?

Well no it isn't that simple when the law is not applied consistently!

 

[fowler9]

Use a receptacle/bin for your cigarette ends, not the floor. Simple really isn't it?

Mate I'm not after any sympathy and completely agree with the fixed penalty notice I paid willingly. I offered to pay there and then. I was discussing issues surrounding it. I don't for one second think I shouldn't have had to pay for breaking the law.

 

[Domh245]

Mate I'm not after any sympathy and completely agree with the fixed penalty notice I paid willingly. I offered to pay there and then. I was discussing issues surrounding it. I don't for one second think I shouldn't have had to pay for breaking the law.

Question - are there any bins in the area of West Allerton Station? A look on Google Streetview would suggest that there aren't any at road level - perhaps this is what the revenue from the fines should be directed towards.

 

[fowler9]

Question - are there any bins in the area of West Allerton Station? A look on Google Streetview would suggest that there aren't any at road level - perhaps this is what the revenue from the fines should be directed towards.

There is one a couple of minutes walk away and also bins on the platform. One outside the station would be handy. It was my dimwitted mistake on this occasion.

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Mate I'm not after any sympathy and completely agree with the fixed penalty notice I paid willingly. I offered to pay there and then. I was discussing issues surrounding it. I don't for one second think I shouldn't have had to pay for breaking the law.

I must reiterate that my above comment was not a direct personal attack to you, sorry if it appeared that way mate! I was just speaking in general terms more than anything!

I whole heatedly agree with your original points made, however! I don't agree with the fact fines are imposed yet the litter still remains!

 

[anti-pacer]

Cheers mate, I remember reading Bill Brysons "Notes From A Small Island". Whe he got to Liverpool he says something along the lines of "They held a litter festival for me". Now I am quite proud of my city and that was embarrassing.

I remember that line in his book. I lived in Waterloo from 2002-4 and it was pretty clean in most parts. Other parts of Liverpool were terrible though.

Has it improved since?

 

[fowler9]

I must reiterate that my above comment was not a direct personal attack to you, sorry if it appeared that way mate! I was just speaking in general terms more than anything!

I whole heatedly agree with your original points made, however! I don't agree with the fact fines are imposed yet the litter still remains!

Ah no worries mate. No offense taken. I was more worried you might think I was defending myself and thought I was hard done by. I deserved the fixed penalty notice. It was a very expensive ciggy and taught me a lesson.

 

[fowler9]

I remember that line in his book. I lived in Waterloo from 2002-4 and it was pretty clean in most parts. Other parts of Liverpool were terrible though.

Has it improved since?

It has in many areas but by where I work by the old airport is like a litter and dog poo obstacle course.

 

[anti-pacer]

It has in many areas but by where I work by the old airport is like a litter and dog poo obstacle course.

I used to work down that way years ago, at the Matchworks building. It was never great back then.