Fixed Penalty Notice

[fowler9]

I used to work down that way years ago, at the Matchworks building. It was never great back then.

That is where I work. Can I ask who you worked for? It has changed hands many times. Ha ha. Much has changed down there but sadly the litter and poo baubles aren't amongst the alterations.

Also was the air conditioning awful when you worked there? Ha ha.

 

[anti-pacer]

That is where I work. Can I ask who you worked for? It has changed hands many times. Ha ha. Much has changed down there but sadly the litter and poo baubles aren't amongst the alterations.

Also was the air conditioning awful when you worked there? Ha ha.

It was years ago in my call centre days. I worked for Vertex on the Vodafone PAYG helpline. I needed a job after quitting one and that came along. It was easy as I had worked for Vodafone themselves down in Banbury and in Manchester. Didn't stay long as I looked for another job and got one. As far as the air con goes, I remember it being either red hot or freezing in there.

 

[swj99]

I got a fixed penalty notice of £80 this morning for dropping a cigarette end outside West Allerton Station. I paid it it right away as I was bang to rights.....

Were you given the opportunity to pick it up before being issued with the fixed penalty ticket ?

It's just that unless you were, then you may not have been as bang to rights as you or they suggest.


Guidance
Enforcement officers: issuing fixed penalty notices
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/enforcement-officers-issuing-fixed-penalty-notices

Give offenders the chance to pick up litter before you issue an FPN. Warn them that you will issue an FPN if they don’t.

 

[A Challenge]

...unless you get paid per PFN and then do it anyway without the opportunity.

 

[AlterEgo]

Were you given the opportunity to pick it up before being issued with the fixed penalty ticket ?

It's just that unless you were, then you may not have been as bang to rights as you or they suggest.


Guidance
Enforcement officers: issuing fixed penalty notices
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/enforcement-officers-issuing-fixed-penalty-notices

You've misquoted - that's under accidental littering, which isn't the case as per the OP.

 

[fowler9]

Were you given the opportunity to pick it up before being issued with the fixed penalty ticket ?

It's just that unless you were, then you may not have been as bang to rights as you or they suggest.


Guidance
Enforcement officers: issuing fixed penalty notices
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/enforcement-officers-issuing-fixed-penalty-notices

No mate I wasn't given the opportunity, however, Alter Ego is right. I had left the scene of the crime and was rightly fined.

One thing I would say though is that 7 hours later my dog end was still there. I of course picked it up and took it home.

I have read today that the biggest company that are given the job of monitoring littering and issuing Fixed Penalty Notices is called Kingdom, the people I dealt with. 90% of their fines last year were given to smokers. Now since smokers don't make up 90% of the population and there is a hell of a lot of litter still on the streets I do wonder if what they are doing is effective?

It seems to me that what they are doing is hanging around stations, fining a few smokers and when they hit their targets heading home. Garston, Seaforth, Aigburth and various other areas of Liverpool are still covered in Coke cans, crisp wrappers and dog poo bags but the stations have no dog ends outside. I'm not sure that is what was intended.

 

[Antman]

No mate I wasn't given the opportunity, however, Alter Ego is right. I had left the scene of the crime and was rightly fined.

One thing I would say though is that 7 hours later my dog end was still there. I of course picked it up and took it home.

I have read today that the biggest company that are given the job of monitoring littering and issuing Fixed Penalty Notices is called Kingdom, the people I dealt with. 90% of their fines last year were given to smokers. Now since smokers don't make up 90% of the population and there is a hell of a lot of litter still on the streets I do wonder if what they are doing is effective?

It seems to me that what they are doing is hanging around stations, fining a few smokers and when they hit their targets heading home. Garston, Seaforth, Aigburth and various other areas of Liverpool are still covered in Coke cans, crisp wrappers and dog poo bags but the stations have no dog ends outside. I'm not sure that is what was intended.

Quite honestly the whole thing is just a money making scam. As previously suggested the more logical thing to do would be to ask people to pick up their litter and issue a fixed penalty if they refuse.

 

[Domh245]

It seems that Kingdom have been acting rather zealously in their role as "litter police"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39882434

A private company acting as the "litter police" for dozens of councils pays officers a bonus for issuing fines, an undercover Panorama report has found.

One officer from Kingdom Services, a leading enforcement company, claimed that his bonus one month was £987.

Other officers were filmed handing out £75 fines for tiny pieces of dropped orange peel and poured-away coffee.

Kingdom told Panorama that its competency allowance was not a paid incentive for officers to issue fines.

Littering is a crime, but if you pay the fine you can avoid a criminal record.

Councils are increasingly using private companies such as Kingdom, based in Cheshire, to enforce the Environmental Protection Act.

Kingdom currently has about 28 contracts with local authorities and last year saw its profits jump 30% to £9m.

The company frequently splits the proceeds of the fines with the councils.

Panorama uncovered several cases where people were fined incorrectly.

The one that I find most bizarre is the woman fined for fly tipping because she put her recycling out on the wrong day over Christmas.

 

[anti-pacer]

It seems that Kingdom have been acting rather zealously in their role as "litter police"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39882434



The one that I find most bizarre is the woman fined for fly tipping because she put her recycling out on the wrong day over Christmas.

That's common, seriously.

The coffee incident made me laugh. Polluting a water course! Heard it all now!

 

[fowler9]

It was years ago in my call centre days. I worked for Vertex on the Vodafone PAYG helpline. I needed a job after quitting one and that came along. It was easy as I had worked for Vodafone themselves down in Banbury and in Manchester. Didn't stay long as I looked for another job and got one. As far as the air con goes, I remember it being either red hot or freezing in there.

The air conditioning hasn't changed. Ha ha. No more Vodafone in there though and the office has been refurbed (Apart from the air conditioning).

 

[anti-pacer]

The air conditioning hasn't changed. Ha ha. No more Vodafone in there though and the office has been refurbed (Apart from the air conditioning).

Is it still Vertex?

 

[fowler9]

Is it still Vertex?

No mate, most of the building is Amey and the part I work in is CarillionAmey.

 

[Kite159]

Quite honestly the whole thing is just a money making scam. As previously suggested the more logical thing to do would be to ask people to pick up their litter and issue a fixed penalty if they refuse.

Sounds like it is a money making racket, issue as many tickets as possible to earn your big fat Brucie Bonus. Why follow the guidelines asking the members of public to pick up something which might have accidently dropped from their pocket when you can earn some money (and pretend to be a figure of authority)?

I'm surprised Crapita hasn't gotten involved on the band wagon, they love a good money making racket (TV licensing, parking "management" etc)

 

[Antman]

Sounds like it is a money making racket, issue as many tickets as possible to earn your big fat Brucie Bonus. Why follow the guidelines asking the members of public to pick up something which might have accidently dropped from their pocket when you can earn some money (and pretend to be a figure of authority)?

I'm surprised Crapita hasn't gotten involved on the band wagon, they love a good money making racket (TV licensing, parking "management" etc)

Maidstone Borough Council have suspended litter wardens following revelations about Kingdom Security.

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/litter-wardens-removed-from-duty-125758/

 

[Kite159]

Maidstone Borough Council have suspended litter wardens following revelations about Kingdom Security.

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/litter-wardens-removed-from-duty-125758/

Although read on in that article, and it seems the suspension was only short:

However, following discussions with Kingdom today MBC has made the decision to reinstate officers from tomorrow after its concerns were addressed.

Sadly someone in the council sees employing the likes of Kingdom as easy money, they do all the hard work and the council gets a cut (so they can spend on installing new luxury carpets to their HQ or other wasteful items)

 

[Antman]

Although read on in that article, and it seems the suspension was only short:



Sadly someone in the council sees employing the likes of Kingdom as easy money, they do all the hard work and the council gets a cut (so they can spend on installing new luxury carpets to their HQ or other wasteful items)

Yes I realised it was only a short term measure and they have been suspended before following numerous complaints about their over zealous attitude.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Sadly someone in the council sees employing the likes of Kingdom as easy money

Spot on. It's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

Of course they don't pick on people who'll fight back, they don't pick on the smackheads in town throwing tins of Special Brew around. They pick on the Chinese students because they know they won't fight back. It just sums up Newcastle City Council ever since Labour got back in. Picking on the little people.

It's the same as the TV Tax Mafia at Crapita. Utterly shameful, but the councils get their slice of pie, so who cares eh?

 

[Antman]

Spot on. It's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

Of course they don't pick on people who'll fight back, they don't pick on the smackheads in town throwing tins of Special Brew around. They pick on the Chinese students because they know they won't fight back. It just sums up Newcastle City Council ever since Labour got back in. Picking on the little people.

It's the same as the TV Tax Mafia at Crapita. Utterly shameful, but the councils get their slice of pie, so who cares eh?

Exactly, no litter wardens to be seen of an evening when drunks are throwing the wrapping from their take aways on the floor, nice soft targets who will accept the fixed penalty and pay up without argument is what they are after

 

[Busaholic]

So, if you smoke and the ash from your cigarette falls to the ground, as presumably it will, are you committing an offence? Or is it only when the fag end (usually a filter) hits the deck? In which case, let the fag go out of its own accord and keep the detritus in your mouth until you find a litter bin, if you think there's a chance of a fine or,alternatively, start vaping or even (horrors!) quit altogether.

 

[fowler9]

So, if you smoke and the ash from your cigarette falls to the ground, as presumably it will, are you committing an offence? Or is it only when the fag end (usually a filter) hits the deck? In which case, let the fag go out of its own accord and keep the detritus in your mouth until you find a litter bin, if you think there's a chance of a fine or,alternatively, start vaping or even (horrors!) quit altogether.

I think no one, least of all me who started the thread, is arguing you should be able to drop dog ends on the pavement. I doubt fag ash is included otherwise Kingdom would have their work cut out fining everyone who didn't dispose of the products of combustion in a bin.

 

[A Challenge]

However of course dumping the contents of your bonfire on the street would still count as fly tipping.

 

[fowler9]

However of course dumping the contents of your bonfire on the street would still count as fly tipping.

Ha ha. Good shout.