Flybe Collapses

[davido39]

Just reading that Stobart pumped money into FlyBe, I have to say that it is no surprise that FlyBe went under. Stobart is not exactly doing well themselves, and I believe we'll probably see the end of Stobart soon.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Stobart is not exactly doing well

Stobart Group (including Stobart Air) and Stobart trucks are different companies with different owners, and it's the truck company that are struggling.

It'll be interesting to see if Stobart/Virgin come back with their own airline for the profitable bits of Flybe, or if the likes of Loganair will step in instead.

EasyJet have already cherry-picked the profitable (weekend!) bits of domestic air travel, so it'll be tough.

 

[edwin_m]

However, until all this is finalised I think the railways are going to be put under serious strain, particularly the long distance routes as Flybe provided many faster options to get around.

A typical Flybe flight had about 50 seats I think, so less than one coach of a train, and running about four times a day maximum. For journeys where trains are an alternative, there is a service (some requiring a change) at least every two hours between nearby stations. Both the trains and the flights are probably less busy than usual due to coronavirus, and some people booked on the flight won't want to make the journey if they have to go by train. So I think the impact on train loadings will be barely noticeable.

 

[sprunt]

Flybe have said their Stobart Air flights won't run either.

Yeah, the Virgin branded flight's gone from Expedia now. Just booked an AMS-LCY instead.

Never had to register as a creditor before, let's see if I get a couple of quid in a couple of years.

 

[krus_aragon]

I now live on the Isle of Man. I hope it gets sorted quickly. There aren't many trains from the Isle of Man.

They're still delayed by flood damage (from the Pleistocene glaciers).

 

[scotrail158713]

Shetlands to Wick will be an amazing structure.

I think you’ll find the people of Shetland will tell you it’s Shetland

 

[Butts]

I've got about 10 flights booked for later in the year on Flybe.

Most of them are between GLA/EDI and BHX.

Luckily I was up early this morning and after hearing the news have managed to rebook on Easyjet. Got in before any profiteering as the average cost of the rebooked flights around £25 per leg on Easyjet (most actually cheaper than original Flybe Booking).

Going to be busy on Section 75 and Chargebacks today !!

 

[miami]

I'm seeing lots of people complaining that they rely on flybe and their £35 flights. I'm also seeing complaints from companies like BA saying that APD should be reduced or removed.

Maybe flybe should have charged more. Maybe the passengers should have paid a sustainable rate for the flights. Maybe APD should be higher to reflect the pollution caused.

If there are genuine cases where the market can't operate a service, then the government can make the route a PSO one, and any airline, be it Ryanair, Stobart, BA, or KLM, can bid to provide that service.

Given that Flybe operated routes from Exeter to London (2 hours on direct train), and from Manchester to Edinburgh (3 hours), I don't see why the taxpayer should subsidise those commuters.

There will be no impact on the rail network, 100 extra people a day travelling from Manchester to Exeter will not make a significant difference to the 2 trains an hour, even if they took the train (most of those flying will simply drive instead)

Maybe if flybe charged the same that the railway charges they wouldn't have gone bust.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe flybe should have charged more. Maybe the passengers should have paid a sustainable rate for the flights. Maybe APD should be higher to reflect the pollution caused.

Or maybe we've seen "peak flight" and there will be lots more of this kind of thing as we return to a much more sensible level of air travel, such as that that went on in the 1990s?

I doubt sleasyJet or Eireflop will go anywhere any time soon, but there is definitely room for a pruning.

 

[Belperpete]

Weirdly I've just done an Expedia search for flights, and the flight I'm booked on is now showing up as a Virgin flight. Different flight number, but the same details down to the operated by Stobart part. Anyone know where I stand with this? if it's going to fly, but my Flybe ticket is invalid the obvious thing to do would be to book onto this.

I see that Virgin are offering a special £65 fare for those with Flybe tickets.

 

[miami]

Or maybe we've seen "peak flight" and there will be lots more of this kind of thing as we return to a much more sensible level of air travel, such as that that went on in the 1990s?

I don't see that I'm afraid. Cheap flights have lead to unrealistic expectations on the price of travel, it will take a long time to undo that damage.

 

[Howardh]

That's my break to Haarlem next week hitting the dust. At least it's just in time for a full hotel refund from booking.com; I still haven't got through to my insurers for the flight ticket back - but that was only £69, which is part of why they collapsed; £69's too cheap IMO, unsustainable.

But if flights were more expensive then they wouldn't have the casual traveller, wouldn't we take fewer breaks, use the rail/coaches nearer home??

 

[Meerkat]

How much Flybe demand will just disappear - people only making trips because of the (clearly unsustainable) low fares?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't see that I'm afraid. Cheap flights have lead to unrealistic expectations on the price of travel, it will take a long time to undo that damage.

I don't know, prices are creeping up, you don't get 1p specials any more.

 

[pdq]

From the TPE Facebook page:

We’re sorry to hear about the collapse of Flybe

We’d like to help those customers affected by allowing them to make their journey today on any FirstGroup train service, free of charge by producing reasonable evidence of their Flybe booking.

This includes travel with Great Western Railway, Avanti West Coast, South Western Railway, and Hull Trains until midnight on Sunday 15 March

#Flybecollapse

​

 

[miami]

How much Flybe demand will just disappear - people only making trips because of the (clearly unsustainable) low fares?

From the panic from "stranded passengers", some people have built their lives around the assumption they can rely on these cheap flights.

While most routes are pretty much already covered with alternate flights, and better run airlines are already looking to move into markets where there's an actual demand or PSO (like Newquay-London), expect wailing and gnashing of teeth from people relying on ridiculously cheap tickets.

 

[matacaster]

Richard Branson wanted the taxpayer to fund his toy instead of putting his own cash in.

I flew over from Ronaldsway this morning to Manchester. Didn't expect it to be my last Flybe* flight.

(*It was actually a Stobart ATR72, which probably gives us an insight as to the next step for important regional routes)

Yes, typical Branson rescue. Make sure all the assets are transferred away to ensure if things go pop they cannot be taken by administrator. Promise a big injection of cash (never materialises-correction they reportedly did put in a fair amount of money, but this seemingly just covered some of the losses and didn't even pay for promised rebranding or rationalisation of routes. The error was they thought they'd get bailed out by govt much sooner). Get Govt to provide all sorts of sweeteners and loan (without asset backing). Plan to close routes you promised to keep open, so only routes which feed into Virgin at Heathrow kept open. If that doesn't work try to get Flybe slots at Heathrow converted to Virgin long-haul.

It is never obvious why billionaire Branson doesn't provide the finance himself, yet pretends its a great deal for the Government. This time, the Government had the balls to call his bluff, he bought a pup as everyone knew. Sad for staff and customers, but the routes which are profitable will survive with new operators, a few socially necessary routes will get Government support with a new operator and the rest will be lost and passengers will have to use rail, which is better for the environment.

 

[Butts]

I don't know, prices are creeping up, you don't get 1p specials any more.

Indeed or sub £20 Fares of a few years back on Flybe/BMI Baby. I suspect some people on here are gloating about it's demise, I for one will be sorry to see it go.

There is nothing to beat an Embraer hammering down from Edinburgh to Birmingham in 45 minutes.

Who says Yorkshire folk are tight ? My Bank (Yorkshire Bank) has agreed to a charge back amounting to about £250 on my multitude of cheapo flights later in the year on Flybe. They have been swamped this morning according to the lassie I spoke to. Just had to send a copy of the Ticket Receipts and they will do the rest. Hopefully Visa will be as generous on the one I paid for on my credit card

 

[Bletchleyite]

A chargeback isn't the same as the bank being liable[1] - it relies on them being able to hoik the money back out of Flymaybe's account, which they may not be able to do if it's empty.

[1] Which does apply on credit cards but only if the cost is over £100 which for Flymaybe flights it often won't be.

 

[miami]

There is nothing to beat an Embraer hammering down from Edinburgh to Birmingham in 45 minutes.

And if people were willing to pay the cost of that service it would still be going.

 

[Butts]

A chargeback isn't the same as the bank being liable[1] - it relies on them being able to hoik the money back out of Flymaybe's account, which they may not be able to do if it's empty.

[1] Which does apply on credit cards but only if the cost is over £100 which for Flymaybe flights it often won't be.

Yes I appreciate that. However as I understand it, part of Flybe's problem was that Banks were witholding the payments to them until the last minute due to the uncertainty about their future, hopefully YB adopted this approach !!

 

[sprinterguy]

I suspect some people on here are gloating about it's demise, I for one will be sorry to see it go.

Agreed, they were my favourite short haul airline by a country mile. Flying Birmingham to Aberdeen was significantly faster, pleasanter and cheaper than the rail alternative. A friend of mine who was planning on flying Birmingham - Edinburgh with them in a couple of months (as a connection from a long haul flight) isn't relishing the thought of having to resort to the train instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed, they were my favourite short haul airline by a country mile. Flying Birmingham to Aberdeen was significantly faster, pleasanter and cheaper than the rail alternative.

Though that's just because XC are dross - literally everything about them is lowest-common-denominator rubbish (except the fares, which are highest-common-denominator ). If they were made anything like half-decent rail would be slower but pleasant, and you'd be able to e.g. work during the journey.

A friend of mine who was planning on flying Birmingham - Edinburgh with them in a couple of months (as a connection from a long haul flight) isn't relishing the thought of having to resort to the train instead.

As long as they travel via the WCML they'll be fine. Yes, you might get a Voyager, but the operation is far better than XC.

 

[sprinterguy]

Though that's just because XC are dross - literally everything about them is lowest-common-denominator rubbish (except the fares, which are highest-common-denominator ). If they were made anything like half-decent rail would be slower but pleasant, and you'd be able to e.g. work during the journey.

As long as they travel via the WCML they'll be fine. Yes, you might get a Voyager, but the operation is far better than XC.

I was comparing Birmingham - Aberdeen with the rail equivalent via the West Coast. It's interminably slow whichever way you do it and it was disruption en route at Lancaster the last time I did it by train that convinced me that I would fly in future. The West Coast option certainly won't be better on the return from Edinburgh to Birmingham in this particular instance as the line will be closed for engineering works between Carstairs and Carlisle.

Funnily enough those of us who were already planning on travelling Birmingham - Edinburgh (Or a substantial portion thereof) by train on this particular trip will be doing it with XC as it allows us to make a worthwhile stop off for a couple of pints at the York Tap. The accelerated timings on the Newcastle services mean you can get from Birmingham to a decent mid-journey pint quite quickly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's interminably slow whichever way you do it and it was disruption en route at Lancaster the last time I did it by train that convinced me that I would fly in future.

I've had more issues with unpunctuality/unreliability on Flymaybe than I have on the north WCML, and I use the latter quite a lot.

 

[Butts]

I've had more issues with unpunctuality/unreliability on Flymaybe than I have on the north WCML, and I use the latter quite a lot.

If you were travelling from Birmingham to Aberdeen it would have to be a hell of a delay for the train to beat the plane !!!

 

[sprinterguy]

I've had more issues with unpunctuality/unreliability on Flymaybe than I have on the north WCML, and I use the latter quite a lot.

Never encountered a delay on Flybe - I have probably used the north WCML a few times more in comparison over the years. Lancaster seems to have a problem with me: I seem to only have about a 50% success rate of reaching my destination in anything approaching a timely manner if I have to pass through there either north or southbound.

If you were travelling from Birmingham to Aberdeen it would have to be a hell of a delay for the train to beat the plane !!!

Indeed!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you were travelling from Birmingham to Aberdeen it would have to be a hell of a delay for the train to beat the plane !!!

The OP referred to delays, not to the overall journey time.

 

[sprinterguy]

The OP referred to delays, not to the overall journey time.

I referred to both, overall journey time first:

Agreed, they were my favourite short haul airline by a country mile. Flying Birmingham to Aberdeen was significantly faster, pleasanter and cheaper than the rail alternative.

I was comparing Birmingham - Aberdeen with the rail equivalent via the West Coast. It's interminably slow whichever way you do it [comparing East with West coast routes]

Celebratory note: 10 years and 10,500 posts on RailUK forums today!

 

[ScotsRail]

Last flew with them in November, pleasant enough flight aside from the departure delays on both legs. The man sat next to me though whined the whole flight home about how he'd been charged £30 as his bag was too big to fit in the box at the departure gate.

This has been coming for a while, they expanded too fast and it came back and bit them on the bum. Covid could be putting the final nail in a few more airline coffins over the next few months.