Flying Scotsman Oxenhope - Carlisle (31 March)

[Deerfold]

Hi,

I've had a search but can't see a thread about this.

The Flying Scotsman is running from Oxenhope to Carlisle and back on 31 March.

Does anyone know when this train is likely to run - I know times haven't been confirmed and could change, but I'm looking for an idea of when we'll get back as something's come up that evening.

 

[markindurham]

Good question. My guess would be early evening, depending on how long the Carlisle layover is, of course. (about 3 hours is the plan). That actually raises an interesting question for me though - can trains access the KWVR line direct from the Skipton direction?

 

[blackfive460]

That actually raises an interesting question for me though - can trains access the KWVR line direct from the Skipton direction?

No they can't.
There's a trailing crossover between the switch off the down line giving access to the K&WVR and Keighley station so, coming from Skipton a train has to stop in Platform 1, reverse over the trailing crossover and beyond the switch to get access.
I would doubt that will happen in view of the frequency of service trains at that time of day.

 

[Deerfold]

No they can't.
There's a trailing crossover between the switch off the down line giving access to the K&WVR and Keighley station so, coming from Skipton a train has to stop in Platform 1, reverse over the trailing crossover and beyond the switch to get access.
I would doubt that will happen in view of the frequency of service trains at that time of day.

So what do you think will happen?

 

[D1009]

Deleted

 

[D1009]

So what do you think will happen?

Would they terminate at Keighley on the return and run a KWVR train to Oxenhope to connect?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Would they terminate at Keighley on the return and run a KWVR train to Oxenhope to connect?

They would still have to perform the move just to get the loco and stock out of the way, so probably quicker to do the move as soon as it arrives than to have the train sat in Keighley P1 with pax detraining.

3 hours each way with 3 in Carlisle suggests about 6pm arrival at Keighley. Services are frequent but at least 10 minute gaps so if the move was quick it would not disrupt traffic.

The only other option is to terminate at Skipton. Service train to Keighley then have a train waiting at Keighley P4. But that will be a faff.

 

[D1009]

They would still have to perform the move just to get the loco and stock out of the way, so probably quicker to do the move as soon as it arrives than to have the train sat in Keighley P1 with pax detraining.

3 hours each way with 3 in Carlisle suggests about 6pm arrival at Keighley. Services are frequent but at least 10 minute gaps so if the move was quick it would not disrupt traffic.

The only other option is to terminate at Skipton. Service train to Keighley then have a train waiting at Keighley P4. But that will be a faff.

Not sure of the railway geography of the area, but couldn't Scotsman haul the complete train to a location east of Keighley after terminating where Scotsman and its support coach could return to the KWVR, and the rest of the empty stock to get wherever it needs to be?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I understand that on the southbound run a Class 47 will be added to the rear at Hellifield. The train will be pathed to run through to Kirkstall, where it will reverse. The 47 taking the train back to Keighley, then Scotsman over the KWVR connection and up to Oxenhope, before the 47 and stock return ECS to Carnforth.

This is due to there being insufficient time, on paper, for NR to plan to the use the up / down crossover at Keighley.

 

[markindurham]

Thanks for the replies, chaps. I didn't think there was a facing crossover west of the KWVR connection. Yes, a 47 being hooked on at Hellifield is logical; both for the shunt and returning the ECS to Carnforth. Scotsman is, of course, remaining on the KWVR for the week.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Not sure of the railway geography of the area, but couldn't Scotsman haul the complete train to a location east of Keighley after terminating where Scotsman and its support coach could return to the KWVR, and the rest of the empty stock to get wherever it needs to be?

Nothing between Keighley and the loops beyond Shipley.

I understand that on the southbound run a Class 47 will be added to the rear at Hellifield. The train will be pathed to run through to Kirkstall, where it will reverse. The 47 taking the train back to Keighley, then Scotsman over the KWVR connection and up to Oxenhope, before the 47 and stock return ECS to Carnforth.

This is due to there being insufficient time, on paper, for NR to plan to the use the up / down crossover at Keighley.

Sounds even more complex. With the 47 already powered up on the tail, I would have thought it wouldn't take long to use the switch at Keighley. I wonder if they are concerned people might try and depart the train at Keighley as soon as it stops in the platform, so want to avoid it having to pause there.

Can't complain though, gives me more chance to pop down for a photo after work.

 

[blackfive460]

I understand that on the southbound run a Class 47 will be added to the rear at Hellifield. The train will be pathed to run through to Kirkstall, where it will reverse. The 47 taking the train back to Keighley, then Scotsman over the KWVR connection and up to Oxenhope, before the 47 and stock return ECS to Carnforth.

This is due to there being insufficient time, on paper, for NR to plan to the use the up / down crossover at Keighley.

That makes good sense.
The alternative, which has been done in the past, would be for steam to come off at Hellifield and stable there until the service train frequency drops off then move to Keighley.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

That makes good sense.
The alternative, which has been done in the past, would be for steam to come off at Hellifield and stable there until the service train frequency drops off then move to Keighley.

Still got to get the passengers back to Keighley and Oxenhope though.

 

[blackfive460]

Still got to get the passengers back to Keighley and Oxenhope though.

The train can still stop at Keighley for a connection provided by the K&WVR which they are going to have to provide anyway by the sounds of things.

 

[theblackwatch]

The train can still stop at Keighley for a connection provided by the K&WVR which they are going to have to provide anyway by the sounds of things.

And the loco has to get back onto the KWVR too...it is the star attraction for the following 9 days!

I do wonder how long it takes NR to plan for the use of a crossover like that if they haven't enough time?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Does anyone know when FS is due to arrive at the KWVR and where it will be coming from?

I have a day off on the Thursday 30th and assume it will be arriving on that day, so want to get out to photograph it somewhere.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It will be arriving before the 31st but whether that is Thursday i do not know. I suspect it will be.

 

[156443]

Anyone know when Scotsman will arrive in Carlisle as there's no times showing up on realtime Trains


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[46223]

60103 York to Keighley, Wednesday 29 March.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54891/2017/03/29/advanced

 

[Tim R-T-C]

60103 York to Keighley, Wednesday 29 March.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54891/2017/03/29/advanced

Thanks, didn't expect it to be on the Wednesday. Mentioned elsewhere it would run after dark to reduce the risk of trespass, although I suspect it might be more due to pathing issues. Might go down to see it at Keighley.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Thanks, didn't expect it to be on the Wednesday. Mentioned elsewhere it would run after dark to reduce the risk of trespass, although I suspect it might be more due to pathing issues. Might go down to see it at Keighley.

Generally it will be at night to avoid any disruption. No point running it in peak when you dont have to.

 

[xotGD]

"LeylandLen" has posted this on another thread:

++++++++++++++++

So 'Flying Scotsman' is traversing the S&C line tomorrow for official reopening .
No doubt lots of the public will be out to see it ; there were a lot at Ribblehead to see Tornado on it its last run on 16th Feb.
Network Rail thanking everyone for putting up with disruption during closure of the line at Appleby
Is there a new thread for it ?

Incidentally, the timings are publicly available here ...http://kwvr.co.uk/kwvr-news-items/fl...tsman-timings/

++++++++++++++++

Excellent - I can view the train at Skipton prior to going to the pub! Also, it looks like they will be attaching a diesel to the rear of the train at Skipton:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54892/2017/03/31/advanced

The ecs then heads over to Carnforth later in the evening:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54893/2017/03/31/advanced

 

[Fuzzytop]

Couldn't find them on the link but here they are:

Pick up:
Oxenhope 08.30
Haworth 08.35
Keighley 09.15
Skipton 09.45

Passing:
Hellifield arr. 10.08, dep. 10.45
Settle Junction 10.53
Horton-in-Ribblesdale 11.11
Ribblehead 11.23
Garsdale: 11.38
Kirkby Stephen 11.51
Appleby arr. 12.04, dep. 12.23
Lazonby 12.41
Carlisle 13.05

Return:
Carlisle 15.35 dep.
Lazonby 16.02
Appleby arr. 16.24, dep. 16.43
Kirkby Stephen 17.02
Garsdale: 17.14
Ribblehead 17.28
Settle Junction 17.42
Hellifield arr. 17.48, dep. 18.29

Drop off:
Skipton arr. 18.44, dep. 19.06
Keighley 19.20
Haworth 20.00
Oxenhope 20.10

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I heard a mention of this event on the news on Friday. The announcer said that is was running to celebrate the reopening of the scenic Seattle? to Carlisle Railway. That would be an interesting journey by steam.

Hope that all went well with the excursion anyway.