FOC to TOC

[1867Blue]

Hi All,

Was wondering if anybody had ever made the move over from a FOC to a TOC.

How easy is it etc.

I’m a Freight Train Driver, but I find the days sitting around loading and unloading sometimes tedious and long, so I am considering moving to pass on the next few years.

So any comments/info or anything at all that people can offer would be great

Cheers

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

Depending on the company you could land a job by just sending an email

 

[Lenny_1986]

Hi All,

Was wondering if anybody had ever made the move over from a FOC to a TOC.

How easy is it etc.

I’m a Freight Train Driver, but I find the days sitting around loading and unloading sometimes tedious and long, so I am considering moving to pass on the next few years.

So any comments/info or anything at all that people can offer would be great

Cheers

I’m in the same position as you so it will be good to hear input from others. I’ve currently got applications in for TOC’s and just waiting to hear back.
My main reason for moving would be the pension as my current company no longer do the final salary scheme.

 

[1867Blue]

Depending on the company you could land a job by just sending an email

Could you elaborate on which ones.

I’m South Yorkshire based, would any fall within distance for me.

I’m in the same position as you so it will be good to hear input from others. I’ve currently got applications in for TOC’s and just waiting to hear back.
My main reason for moving would be the pension as my current company no longer do the final salary scheme.

Good luck with the applications

 

[Lenny_1986]

Thank you and good luck to you if you decide to make the move

 

[anglian96]

I have made the move and start with a TOC in October. Can't wait to be honest lol

 

[1867Blue]

I have made the move and start with a TOC in October. Can't wait to be honest lol

How did you find the recruitment process etc

 

[Juliet Barvo]

It won't be as laid back as Freight. It'll be very regimented. They'll be hot on the Rules. You'll be doing 7 hours of driving everyday.

Remember, when you're a Passenger Driver, you'll get hammered if your call it a "feather", no, you have to call it a Junction Indicator. They get very anal over silly things.

If you really want to know what it's like, go down the end of a platform and go frontending, say you're doing route learning, and let them talk.

 

[66701GBRF]

Each to their own but I think you’d be changing one tedium for another.

 

[anglian96]

How did you find the recruitment process etc

Straight forward tbh. Applied online got an interview date. The interview was a competency based interview and a chat. Got the job went for medical and uniform sizing and here we are today waiting to start. I know some TOCS also do rules assessment as part of the Interview process aswell.

 

[UTV]

I made the move in November 2021. I went from Freightliner IM to WMT. I already had an insight into TOCs though as I was a guard before a Freight Driver. The recruitment process was a lot easier for starters. Work wise passenger driving can be quite repetitive and a lot more intensive with all the stop/ start at stations etc. some shifts I stop over 100 times. But plus side is better money, Sundays at time and half, if you do get stuck I’m always less than an hour in a taxi back to my depot. I like having a guard on the train doing the doors as were are not DOO Yet. One down side is you are always being looked at, either by a manager or another manager from same toc, passengers are a nightmare sometimes etc. there are pluses and minuses for both FOC and TOC, just depends what you want. Tbh I do miss Freightliner sometimes as it was a lot more of a relaxed working environment. Hope this helps.

 

[EZJ]

It won't be as laid back as Freight. It'll be very regimented. They'll be hot on the Rules. You'll be doing 7 hours of driving everyday.

Remember, when you're a Passenger Driver, you'll get hammered if your call it a "feather", no, you have to call it a Junction Indicator. They get very anal over silly things.

If you really want to know what it's like, go down the end of a platform and go frontending, say you're doing route learning, and let them talk.

Not the best advice, you wouldn't get into a cab at my TOC without all the correct route learning documents, and not the best way of getting a job by not following basic rules. If an incident were to occur and it was found out you had said you were "route learning" when you weren't it would not be well received.

 

[DoubleO]

It won't be as laid back as Freight. It'll be very regimented. They'll be hot on the Rules. You'll be doing 7 hours of driving everyday.

Remember, when you're a Passenger Driver, you'll get hammered if your call it a "feather", no, you have to call it a Junction Indicator. They get very anal over silly things.

If you really want to know what it's like, go down the end of a platform and go frontending, say you're doing route learning, and let them talk.

What a load of absolute rubbish

 

[12LDA28C]

It won't be as laid back as Freight. It'll be very regimented. They'll be hot on the Rules. You'll be doing 7 hours of driving everyday.

Remember, when you're a Passenger Driver, you'll get hammered if your call it a "feather", no, you have to call it a Junction Indicator. They get very anal over silly things.

If you really want to know what it's like, go down the end of a platform and go frontending, say you're doing route learning, and let them talk.

I don't know where you get your information from... it depends entirely on the TOC as to the various Ts & Cs you'll be required to work to but you certainly wouldn't be doing '7 hours of driving everyday', that's just nonsense.

 

[ExRes]

It won't be as laid back as Freight. It'll be very regimented. They'll be hot on the Rules. You'll be doing 7 hours of driving everyday.

Remember, when you're a Passenger Driver, you'll get hammered if your call it a "feather", no, you have to call it a Junction Indicator. They get very anal over silly things.

If you really want to know what it's like, go down the end of a platform and go frontending, say you're doing route learning, and let them talk.

I can't imagine ASLEF having any members whatsoever if everyone is doing 7 hours of driving each day, I worked TOC and FOC and we weren't doing that 25 years ago other than on the odd occasion, as for pretending to be route learning that's the ticket to 7 hours a day at the Job Centre

 

[baz962]

The very occasional day we do around seven hours. Maybe one or two diagrams. Shortest have around four hours. I would say the average is around 5.5 . I don't know many driver managers that care if you call it a junction indicator or a feather. You will need to know the rules at any TOC or FOC as it should be , but you won't get jumped on. Both Toc's I worked for I never had anyone looking over my shoulder , just yearly rules and the occasional download.

 

[1867Blue]

Thanks for all the replies so far ladies and gentleman.

One of the downsides from my point of view to freight is we have some turns that are almost 2 hours long with only an hour driving the rest is sat in a hot cramped cab in quarries with the occasional shunt move.

 

[12LDA28C]

Thanks for all the replies so far ladies and gentleman.

One of the downsides from my point of view to freight is we have some turns that are almost 2 hours long with only an hour driving the rest is sat in a hot cramped cab in quarries with the occasional shunt move.

I'm assuming you mean 12 hours?

 

[Lenny_1986]

I was thinking the same. 2 hours with 1 hour lunch, where do I sign up haha!

 

[1867Blue]

I'm assuming you mean 12 hours?

I actually meant 10 hours with 1 hours actual driving. Not sure what happened then

My apologies

 

[hiall]

It won't be as laid back as Freight. It'll be very regimented. They'll be hot on the Rules. You'll be doing 7 hours of driving everyday.

Remember, when you're a Passenger Driver, you'll get hammered if your call it a "feather", no, you have to call it a Junction Indicator. They get very anal over silly things.

If you really want to know what it's like, go down the end of a platform and go frontending, say you're doing route learning, and let them talk.

7 hour driving? Not at my TOC. That would be brutal. 3-5 hours actual driving per turn. Some turns have less mon - sat and on a Sunday you may have slightly more than 5 hours.

 

[357]

My old TOC regularly had 10 hour shifts with almost 9 hours driving.

I know many freight guys who came across and ended up going back. I can vouch for the "Feather vs Route Indicator" comments above too. Also people pulled into the office for point something over the speed limit on a download and other silly things. Personally my own favourite was when I was pulled into the office for only holding the couple for 4.8 seconds instead of 5 seconds.

Be careful what you wish for. Research your company of choice well.

 

[ComUtoR]

Also people pulled into the office for point something over the speed limit on a download and other silly things.

We just had a Driver who tripped TPWS by 0.106 mph

 

[DoubleO]

We just had a Driver who tripped TPWS by 0.106 mph

That's like saying you had a SPAD but only by 6 inches. Where do you draw the line?

 

[Dieseldriver]

We just had a Driver who tripped TPWS by 0.106 mph

Which still goes on your SOL record whether you’re at a TOC or a FOC

 

[ComUtoR]

That's like saying you had a SPAD but only by 6 inches. Where do you draw the line?

That's the problem with "lines" There is always someone who says what if... and then wants the line moved a little further. How far over the speed limit is acceptable ? If the TPWS kicked in then potentially you might not have slowed down and if during the investigation you would have been 20 mph over the PSR or past the signal by 60m that line looks a little different.

Take a look at any RAIB report and you begin to understand why the TOCs take such a hard line to things and why the RAIB look into the minutiae of details for everything.

Going back to my TPWS example. The Driver tripped the TPWS. That now goes on their Safety of the Line record and is recorded into the safety stats. Its gutting to hear that such a tight margin can have such an impact but it doesn't change the fact that the Driver still tripped it.

With your SPAD example, the Driver may have passed the Signal by 6 inches but consider the circumstances that would have led to them being so close. Due to an incident at my TOC, that line for a SPAD has now been firmly drawn at the leading edge of the coupler.

Looking through our standards is kinda scary and all those lines that have been drawn for specific incidents can be a little daunting.

 

[DoubleO]

That's the problem with "lines" There is always someone who says what if... and then wants the line moved a little further. How far over the speed limit is acceptable ? If the TPWS kicked in then potentially you might not have slowed down and if during the investigation you would have been 20 mph over the PSR or past the signal by 60m that line looks a little different.

Take a look at any RAIB report and you begin to understand why the TOCs take such a hard line to things and why the RAIB look into the minutiae of details for everything.

Going back to my TPWS example. The Driver tripped the TPWS. That now goes on their Safety of the Line record and is recorded into the safety stats. Its gutting to hear that such a tight margin can have such an impact but it doesn't change the fact that the Driver still tripped it.

With your SPAD example, the Driver may have passed the Signal by 6 inches but consider the circumstances that would have led to them being so close. Due to an incident at my TOC, that line for a SPAD has now been firmly drawn at the leading edge of the coupler.

Looking through our standards is kinda scary and all those lines that have been drawn for specific incidents can be a little daunting.

I completely agree. My point was basically the same as yours. He blew thr TPWS out - not by much, but that's not the point.

 

[357]

I feel I should point out that the difference between the TPWS (I'd be gutted myself in that situation) and the speeding allegations is that the speedo on an Electrostar is only accurate to +/- 2mph and frequently even more inaccurate at lower speeds.

 

[PNutt]

Thanks for all the replies so far ladies and gentleman.

One of the downsides from my point of view to freight is we have some turns that are almost 2 hours long with only an hour driving the rest is sat in a hot cramped cab in quarries with the occasional shunt move.

Why not try to get a move to FL IM? Best of both worlds imo. I know they’ve got a new trainee recruitment freeze on atm, but I believe they’re still taking on qualified drivers at certain depots.

 

[Train_manager]

I feel I should point out that the difference between the TPWS (I'd be gutted myself in that situation) and the speeding allegations is that the speedo on an Electrostar is only accurate to +/- 2mph and frequently even more inaccurate at lower speeds.

And I know of a place that the TWPS overspeed is set just 2mph above the PSR of 60 mph.

It gets tripped regularly.