Football

[atomicdanny]

Back to a different matter....

It is expected that a final definite decision will soon be announced by the Internal Football FA on the two "goal-line" systems Hawk-Eye and GoalRef that have been in the process of evaluation for some time now.

Interesting though now that England get a decision in their favour where a goal was potentially disallowed for Ukraine, the Fifa president suddenly supports the idea... when he was very against it after the disallowed goal in the Germany game in the world cup... (To me that could makes it sound almost like he doesn't like England!)

The desire to bring in goal-line technology increased after Ukraine were denied an equaliser after the ball appeared to cross the line in a 1-0 defeat by England at Euro 2012.
That incident led to Fifa president Sepp Blatter adding his support to calls to bring in technology to help in such decisions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18719396

Van Persie has apparently said that he will not sign a new contract at Arsenal.

If this is true, then come on Fergie, cheeky cut price deal would be welcome to bring him to United

Unfortunately he will most likely go to Manchester City who can easily out bid everyone at the moment it seems! They have the money to spare unfortunately.

 

[SS4]

So Robin Van Persie is not going to stay, not surprising because that is what Arsenal captains do. Lets hope that Abou Diaby is the next Arsenal captain. That is not a big problem after all he has spent the best part of his eight years at Arsenal on the treatment table. A Eighteen month purple patch and he thinks he can dictate what the club are doing rightly or wrongly. If i was the manager i would make Diaby captain (just so that he goes next season) and put Van Persie in the reserves until his contract is up and then let him go.

Bigger players have come and gone, no doubt with Viera in charge of Football development at Man Citeh, money not being an issue and that we are a feeder club for them he will find himself amongst familiar faces.

I hope i have put this in the right thread i couldnt find a football thread i only saw a SPL thread!

Can you afford to let him go on the Bosman though?

As ever no transfer news from Villa Park but at least we'll start off second thanks to the alphabet
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Interesting though now that England get a decision in their favour where a goal was potentially disallowed for Ukraine, the Fifa president suddenly supports the idea... when he was very against it after the disallowed goal in the Germany game in the world cup... (To me that could makes it sound almost like he doesn't like England!)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18719396

You're going to need foreign media to prove that. All the English press hates Sepp Blatter and have got it into their heads that he is abusing his powers to disfavour England.

 

[Oswyntail]

... (To me that could makes it sound almost like he doesn't like England!)...

Or, like any sensible person reacting to any situation, he has been able to change his mind after the evidence has changed? But that wouldn't get the Daily Mail readers upset, would it?

 

[RyanB]

I'm ain't no rangers fan but im sure that means " We Don't Do Walking Away" pfft its only the players that do that. Rats sinking ship come to mind.

This gif also springs to mind


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Interesting though now that England get a decision in their favour where a goal was potentially disallowed for Ukraine, the Fifa president suddenly supports the idea... when he was very against it after the disallowed goal in the Germany game in the world cup... (To me that could makes it sound almost like he doesn't like England!)

Well, let's face it, it's not the first time England have ever got a dodgy decision in their favour at a crucial time

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The date has been set for the meeting of the clubs in the Scottish Football League to decide what will happen to Rangers....it will be at the end of next week.

It is worrying to note that the date is Friday the 13th....:cry:

 

[Ivo]

Looks like Blatter and co. have finally seen sense and accepted what the rest of the world always knew was right!

From two separate pages on the BBC (here and here, one of which is a revised version of the one linked to by atomicdanny above):

Goal-line technology could be introduced in the Premier League midway through the 2012-13 season after it was approved by the International Football Association Board (IFAB) in Zurich.

Two systems - Hawk-Eye and GoalRef - have passed Fifa's criteria for use.

The technology will first be used at December's Fifa Club World Cup and, if successful, at the 2013 Confederations Cup and 2014 World Cup.

The Premier League said it wanted it "as soon as practically possible."

A statement following IFAB's announcement added: "The Premier League has been a long-term advocate of goal-line technology.

"We welcome today's decision by IFAB and will engage in discussions with both Hawk-Eye and GoalRef in the near future with a view to introducing goal-line technology as soon as is practically possible."

The systems will require testing after they are installed in each stadium to ensure they are working properly before they can be used, with licenses lasting for 12 months.

Hawk-Eye was tested at Southampton's St Mary's Stadium in May and Fifa thanked the FA for its assistance.

A Fifa spokesman said: "We would like to place on record our sincere thanks to the Football Association for their willingness to support the live match tests, a critical part of Test Phase 2 for goal-line technology."

IFAB was keen to stress that technology will not be used to help referees make any other decisions.

It's taken far too long for this to happen, but now that it has hopefully we'll see an end to silly incidents such as Frank Lampard vs Germany or Pedro Mendes vs Manchester United. On the other hand though, it may lead to other controversial situations, such as England vs Ukraine match and also the 2007 FA Cup Final, in which the ball crossed the line under essentially foul conditions but both the foul and the goal were inexplicably overlooked - in such situations, the attacking team will win when perhaps it shouldn't.

Unfortunately however, there's always one dimwit:

Uefa president Michel Platini is believed to prefer the use of five match officials, something which was also approved by Fifa on Thursday.

The system, which sees an extra official posted behind each goal-line to monitor action in and around the penalty box, has been on trial since 2008 and was in use during Euro 2012 as well as last season's Champions League.

I still don't see why Platini is so against it. It is the way forward. Tennis has had Hawk-Eye for years and has made a massive difference to the game. Cricket has allowed video replays for years and increasingly so with Challenges in recent times. And everyone knows about the try-that-wasn't in the 2007 World Cup Final (unfortunately ). Maybe he scored more than his fair share of marginal goals and is afraid of getting caught out?

Blatter meanwhile has cited Lampard's ghost goal as the one that made the biggest difference:

"That was the moment for me to say 'you are the president of Fifa and you can't afford for something similar to happen in the next World Cup'," he said.

"We could say it is a historic day for international football.

"In the autumn of 2010, we started tests and now we are ready.

"I am a happy man that we did it and for me the objective is for 2014 but now we have a system which is available for others."

One other interesting comment, from Sir Geoff Hurst (obviously the man at the centre of the most famous was-it-or-wasn't-it in football, which also saw England on the offence in a World Cup Final):

"It would have shown quite categorically that the ball was quite clearly at least a yard over the line," he insisted.

"But had it said it wasn't in then we would have won 3-2, so there's still no difference.

On the other hand, I have seen evidence before now on television suggesting that the ball was only 3/4 of the way across the line, meaning the 3-2 result would be applicable - or, maybe, it would have just been 2-1 as everyone knows it should have been. There are plentiful videos on YouTube suggesting this as well!

Anyway, the technology has finally been approved, and good riddance. If only Platini would accept it is for the best...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Ah Mr Hurst, it doesn't work like that, had the goal not been given (and I don't think it should have been), it would have led to an entirely different series of events from the ones that occured, for all we know Germany could have won 5-2...

 

[SS4]

I have my reservations about how it will be used. For it to be fair it would need to be used every time the ball crosses the line, even when it's obvious that it has. If it's at the ref's discretion we will be little better off since he can always choose not to leaving the big clubs better off and maintaining the status quo.

Goal Line Technology is undoubtedly a good thing but rare. FIFA should have gone for video replays for penalty incidents and diving coupled with harsher penalties. Diving/trying to get opposition sent off is a far larger blight on the game than disputed goals will ever be but it'll never get started since the bigger teams will be disadvantaged on both domestic (any PL club) and international (Spain)

 

[telstarbox]

So Robin Van Persie is not going to stay, not surprising because that is what Arsenal captains do. Lets hope that Abou Diaby is the next Arsenal captain. That is not a big problem after all he has spent the best part of his eight years at Arsenal on the treatment table. A Eighteen month purple patch and he thinks he can dictate what the club are doing rightly or wrongly. If i was the manager i would make Diaby captain (just so that he goes next season) and put Van Persie in the reserves until his contract is up and then let him go.

Didn't realise there was another Arsenal fan on RailUK

Also rumours today that Theo will be the next to go.

 

[Butts]

Didn't realise there was another Arsenal fan on RailUK

Also rumours today that Theo will be the next to go.

I think Wenger should be considering his options - I can't see him moulding another wonderful side as he has in the past.

 

[Oswyntail]

.... FIFA should have gone for video replays for penalty incidents and diving coupled with harsher penalties. ...

I cannot recall any such incidents where replays have proved conclusively that an offence did or did not occur. "Diving" in particular is impossible to assess, because it can take only the minutest of contact to topple a "balance" player. Pundits commenting on replays always have a preconception (as with offsides, balls crossing the line etc). (I exclude the likes of players clutching their face when someone has tapped their shin, of course).
What would benefit the game much more would be a tighter implementation, and drafting, of the rules. Shirt tugging? Foul. Offside? Yes or no - no watering it down with "interfering in play". Any dissent? Booking for all concerned. Yes there would be a few abandoned matches at first, but players that cannot learn that the officials are in control deserve the punishment.
And don't start bleating about the quality of officials. 99% of the so-called "referee howlers" are actually reasonable decisions derided by partisan pundits. Support the officials in doing their job and things will get better (as in cricket)

 

[EM2]

What would benefit the game much more would be a tighter implementation, and drafting, of the rules. Shirt tugging? Foul. Offside? Yes or no - no watering it down with "interfering in play". Any dissent? Booking for all concerned. Yes there would be a few abandoned matches at first, but players that cannot learn that the officials are in control deserve the punishment.

I agree with most of this, but not offside.
Take the example of a winger who crosses from the goal-line, into the penalty area, where the centre-forward shoots and scores.
As soon as the centre-forward shoots, the winger would be offside, yet he has created the chancer and is taking no further part.

 

[SS4]

I agree with most of this, but not offside.
Take the example of a winger who crosses from the goal-line, into the penalty area, where the centre-forward shoots and scores.
As soon as the centre-forward shoots, the winger would be offside, yet he has created the chancer and is taking no further part.

A winger in the penalty area is interfering though as a defender or goalkeeper must be aware of their presence and compensate. Anyone in the 18 yard box behind the last defender should automatically be offside as they're interfering with play passively if not actively.
Offside would be so much simpler if it was the old definition of being between the last defender and the goalkeeper when the ball is played except for throw-ins and running from one's own half

 

[EM2]

I didn't say the winger was in the penalty area. I said he crosses into the area.
But Oswyntail was saying there should be no interfering with play or similar clause, you either are, or aren't, which means that, as an attacking ploy, would be redundant as there'd be no advantage to the winger trying to beat the full-back so he might as well just lump it forward into the box.
And those clauses (interfering or seeking to gain an advantage) have been in the Laws since I started playing in the mid-'70s.

 

[Oswyntail]

I didn't say the winger was in the penalty area. I said he crosses into the area.
But Oswyntail was saying there should be no interfering with play or similar clause, you either are, or aren't, which means that, as an attacking ploy, would be redundant as there'd be no advantage to the winger trying to beat the full-back so he might as well just lump it forward into the box.
And those clauses (interfering or seeking to gain an advantage) have been in the Laws since I started playing in the mid-'70s.

As I understand it, "interfering with play" is actually defined as either touching the ball or deliberately hindering an opponent. This is not to be confused with the concept of being in "active play" which was, IIRC, introduced in a laughable "clarification" in 2005, which left it to the ref to decide, and produced laughable results (such as strikers lying on the ground in the area and tripping up the keeper being deemed not active). It is that subjective element I believe needs to be eliminated.

 

[EM2]

Decisions like that have been made for years.
I point to the 1981 League Cup Final, when Sammy Lee is down in the penalty area in an offside position, Alan Kennedy takes a shot, and Lee has to duck out of the way.
The ball goes in and the goal is given, after Clive Thomas overrules the linesman.

 

[Oswyntail]

Presumably, Lee didn't touch the ball or impede an opponent. He was in an offside position, but did not commit an offside offence.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Let us not lose sight of what the "goal-line technology" is intended to be for and not to confuse it with other matters, albeit worthy of discussion elsewhere, which will only mask the matter that is being a matter of discussion this week.

In tennis, all that "Hawk Eye" is concerned with, is whether the ball was in play or not. Goal-line technology in football is "in the words of the Ronseal advert" exactly what it says on the tin....nothing more, nothing less.

It was this matter only that has been a matter of approval this week by the International football authorities...no other matter was given approval, as far as I am aware.

 

[EM2]

Presumably, Lee didn't touch the ball or impede an opponent. He was in an offside position, but did not commit an offside offence.

He was interfering with play, in the same way that SS4 mentioned, in that defenders & the goalkeeper have to be aware of him.
This is why you can't have a definite offence, as you originally stated, Yes or no - no watering it down with "interfering in play".

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Brazilian twins at Old Trafford seem to have a difference in fortunes as Rafael has signed a four-year deal, whereas his twin brother Fabio is going on loan to Queens Park Rangers.

Another "snippet" seems to suggest that as a result of their new midfield Japanese signing, Manchester United may well sell Park-Ji Sun to Queens Park Rangers. A pity, as he always seemed to give his best at all times and was a model professional footballer....the type Joey Barton should try to learn from on how to conduct yourself on the football field.

 

[Oswyntail]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18754479
By any reading of this proposal to be voted on by the SFL on Friday, it seems that Rangers are going to move down only one division. If the proposal is accepted - and it appears to state that Rangers will go to Div 3 - there is the get-out clause "Unless" the board feels a satisfactory arrangement has been made. If that isn't an open tender for brown envelopes under the table, i don't know what is:roll:

 

[ACE1888]

Steven Davis (ex Rangers) signs for Southampton on a 3 year deal, great signing for the Saints

 

[Ivo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18754479
By any reading of this proposal to be voted on by the SFL on Friday, it seems that Rangers are going to move down only one division. If the proposal is accepted - and it appears to state that Rangers will go to Div 3 - there is the get-out clause "Unless" the board feels a satisfactory arrangement has been made. If that isn't an open tender for brown envelopes under the table, i don't know what is:roll:

So for all we know they could be in the SPL in 12 months' time if that does happen.

As for Club 12, the BBC don't seem to know who of Dunfermline and Dundee it will be (we have always said Dundee). If this is true, and stays as such, why not have them stage a play-off? It could be either two-legged or alternatively a one-off match at Hampden.

 

[Scotrail84]

So for all we know they could be in the SPL in 12 months' time if that does happen.

As for Club 12, the BBC don't seem to know who of Dunfermline and Dundee it will be (we have always said Dundee). If this is true, and stays as such, why not have them stage a play-off? It could be either two-legged or alternatively a one-off match at Hampden.

Dunfermline released a load of players because they were relegated. Wouldn't be fair to have a play off. I think Dundee should be promoted because they were the 2nd best team in the sfl1 and Dunfermline were relegated fair and square. Also if Dundee do come up then there's the return of the Dundee derby which may be in sky's interest too. Dundee Derbys are usually quite feisty.

 

[CC 72100]

The Brazilian twins at Old Trafford seem to have a difference in fortunes as Rafael has signed a four-year deal, whereas his twin brother Fabio is going on loan to Queens Park Rangers.

Another "snippet" seems to suggest that as a result of their new midfield Japanese signing, Manchester United may well sell Park-Ji Sun to Queens Park Rangers. A pity, as he always seemed to give his best at all times and was a model professional footballer....the type Joey Barton should try to learn from on how to conduct yourself on the football field.

Fabio needs to get more experience, and with Evra still covering left back, he's not going to get that much at United. A good move for the lad.

As for Rafael: well, he is a better player, and the right back position is 'up for grabs' so to speak. He also needs to mature more - far too often he dives into tackles, misses the ball and the man, and the opponent is past. The Brazilian twins also have a tendancy never to last the 90 minutes.

I don't think Park leaving us is linked to Kagawa's arrival. Two very different players who do two very different jobs. Park didn't get much football last season, so the time is probably right for him to move on. He's the sort of player who you don't really appreciate until he plays for your team, and as you point out, is a model proffesional, best of luck to him.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Ryan Giggs has been named as captain of the GB football squad in the Olympics by Stuart Pearce.

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Monday, 9th July

Manchester City have just awarded a five-year managerial contract extension to Roberto Mancini, which reflects their pleasure in winning the Premier League for the first time since it commenced.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So for all we know they could be in the SPL in 12 months' time if that does happen.

There is another example of how a top team in a European football league can eventually be given a punishment much less than originally given. I refer to Juventus in the 2006 period.

Original punishment
Relegation from Serie A to Serie C1
Points deduction of 30 points in next season

Punishment after first appeal
Relegation from Serie A to Serie B
Points deduction of 17 points in next season

Punishment after second and final appeal
Relegation from Serie A to Serie B
Points deduction of 9 points in next season

 

[David]

The Rangers saga continues, and now it involves another 2 clubs who have fallen foul of the football authorities .....

The 5 players who have left Rangers so far to sign for new club, have had their international clearence withheld by the Scottish FA. However, Kyle Lafferty has signed for FC Sion.

Allan McGregor is reportedly holding talks with Besiktas, but they are banned from European competition for a year due to financial problems.

 

[Clip]

For some reason Barca want Cabaye

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How is it possible for England to have risen from sixth to fourth in the World football rankings, when they did not even qualify for any of the four semi-final places in Euro 2012 ?

 

[richw]

How is it possible for England to have risen from sixth to fourth in the World football rankings, when they did not even qualify for any of the four semi-final places in Euro 2012 ?

Because they get ranking points for each win and the semi finalists started with considerably less ranking points so more wins were needed for them to leap us