Football

[AlterEgo]

There is a massive distinction between the two. There is absolutely no need for an actual flare at a football ground.

The aversion to both does seem to be a uniquely UK issue. Continental Europe (particularly Germany and Poland) seem to embrace them.

Smoke bombs and flares are hot and will burn someone. Would you want someone with a flaming torch at a football game? Does someone have to get seriously hurt, or worse, die from pyro-throwing (it has happened) before something is done?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Smoke bombs and flares are hot and will burn someone. Would you want someone with a flaming torch at a football game? Does someone have to get seriously hurt, or worse, die from pyro-throwing (it has happened) before something is done?

Yep. Wasn't some unfortunate individual killed by a marine distress flare which had been set off at the end of a Wales-Romania international in Cardiff in 1993?

 

[AlterEgo]

Laughable, completely unrealistic to jail anyone with a fare or smoke bomb.

How many flares and smoke bombs do you think there are at football games? 10? 12? They’re dangerous. Remember we arrested 3000 people in disparate locations during the 2011 riots, so just going “oh, no…not possible. Anyway back to atmosphere at games” is part of the issue.

Illegal pyros are not an essential part of a match day atmosphere. I was at Colchester v MK Dons a few years ago and some absolute melt in the away end let off a flare (that was a League Two game so extra cringe) and threw it, and it landed in the wheelchair section at the front and underneath a fella’s wheelchair. You reckon that’s all part of the match day atmosphere? It wasn’t ten years ago.

Things will change when someone gets killed or injured. Stop having naked flames in crowds, and stop throwing them as well.

Yep. Wasn't some unfortunate individual killed by a marine distress flare which had been set off at the end of a Wales-Romania international in Cardiff in 1993?

Wasn’t thinking of that incident but I’m sure a child was killed in the 90s on the continent. Pyros are dangerous? Would you have a bonfire in the stand? No. Would you throw a bottle on the pitch? No. There is nothing safe you can do with any sort of fan-brought pyro at a football game.

 

[roversfan2001]

Smoke bombs and flares are hot and will burn someone. Would you want someone with a flaming torch at a football game? Does someone have to get seriously hurt, or worse, die from pyro-throwing (it has happened) before something is done?

I've seen pyros thrown before, and nearly always it's because an army of stewards were on their way to manhandle the offender out of the ground and into the arms of the nearest police officer. If that wasn't the procedure, they wouldn't end up being thrown in the first place.

Actual flares are extremely rare too in my experience, smoke bombs make up the vast majority. They're significantly safer than flares, and look better too.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've seen pyros thrown before, and nearly always it's because an army of stewards were on their way to manhandle the offender out of the ground and into the arms of the nearest police officer. If that wasn't the procedure, they wouldn't end up being thrown in the first place.

They’re still not safe to bring into games. Even if you just want to stand cheek by jowl with 10,000 other people and let of your smoke bomb, that’s not safe. It’s also very unpleasant if you’ve asthma or breathing issues. No, the whole lot needs to be gone from the game.

 

[Runningaround]

No need for pens or fences just have a barrier like they have at Wembley and terraces make absolutely no difference as all recent incidents have occured at all seater stadiums. Clubs paying and employing adult security staff on a decent wage rather than teenagers on the minimum. Then it doesn't help when the Police force has been cut and the experienced old school coppers' retire even if the government does increase spending all they get are new officers learning off in-experienced ones and facial recognition CCTV isn't going to be at every game. There also needs to be more from genuine fans in tackling it instead of letting problems grow tackle the idiots when their in low numbers you are in the majority stick up for your club or you'll suffer from their actions too.

There should be Sniffer dogs that can identify concealed explosives and drugs at entry points along with searches. In the 90's media used to refrain from reporting fights and disturbances at matches as it became a badge of honour to see your mayhem in publicised. You can't do much with social media unless the big sites ban coverage of it.
A banned supporter doesn't need to enter genuine details to attend a match and they can turn up at any cash entry game they wish as it's unlikely they will be recognised.
It's also far easier to buy online tickets while concealing your identity you don't need your home address just create an account using one for the area the home club is based. If you want a ticket for a match abroad that needs a local address all you do is use the hotel or some have even used the club's to register an account with the club website. Perhaps a passport number or I.D number to prove who you are.

The far bigger problems in the 70's and 80's were tackled and reduced significantly, if it can done from that level so it can be done from where we are now. If clubs start losing income from reduced attendance they will act. Its been done before.

I've seen pyros thrown before, and nearly always it's because an army of stewards were on their way to manhandle the offender out of the ground and into the arms of the nearest police officer. If that wasn't the procedure, they wouldn't end up being thrown in the first place.

Actual flares are extremely rare too in my experience, smoke bombs make up the vast majority. They're significantly safer than flares, and look better too.

They shouldn't be in in the first place, why is it always the nerdy attention seeking weedy bloke that conceals it up his bum?
Smoke bombs aren't safe for asthma suffers they're not i've seen them getting seriously ill from being trapped in a stand surrounded by smoke.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

So you think it's perfectly fine to invade the pitch during the game?

Post final whistle is a different story, assuming members of the opposite team are safely out of the way of the drunken fans out to celebrate.

I was at Port Vale v Swindon last night and have never seen such a huge pitch invasion at the end. It happened so quickly, despite the large number of stewards surrounding the fronts of stands, that the Swindon players couldn't get off the pitch in time and some apparently were abused and assaulted. There is history between Vale and a couple of the Swindon players. The abuse spoilt a good night.

The problem isn't confined to the Premier and Football Leagues. I also went to the AFC Fylde vs Boston United NL North play-off SF which ended with a major pitch invasion by almost all of the large Boston contingent. Boston fans have a long history of pitch invasions. They used to charge on to our pitch at Bradford every time they scored, which was often, until we put up a decent fence to stop them. Their behaviour was particularly bad when they beat us in the 2010 NPL play-off final.

 

[D6968]

Do people attending theatre, opera and ballet need to pre-indulge in alcohol intake, prior to attending performances?

Erm I’m going to see a comedian on Saturday night in Cambridge, I will most certainly enjoy a beer or two before the show in moderation, I’m certain most of those who have bought tickets will have a drink before or after, it doesn’t mean theres going to go anarchy before, during or after the performance in the centre of Cambridge.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Smoke bombs and flares are hot and will burn someone. Would you want someone with a flaming torch at a football game? Does someone have to get seriously hurt, or worse, die from pyro-throwing (it has happened) before something is done?

Any talk of what fire can do in football grounds need only to be made aware of the aftermath of the Bradford City FC stadium fire in 1985.

 

[AlterEgo]

Any talk of what fire can do in football grounds need only to be made aware of the aftermath of the Bradford City FC stadium fire in 1985.

Stadiums have moved on since then, and I’m not so worried about fire - but rather the potential for these devices to burn people quite badly.

The Bradford Fire “in real time on live TV” is one of the most harrowing things I’ve seen on YouTube though. Frightening.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Any talk of what fire can do in football grounds need only to be made aware of the aftermath of the Bradford City FC stadium fire in 1985.

Not quite comparing like with like, the fire at Valley Parade (Bradford) was believed to be caused by a lighted cigarette having been dropped into a rubbish-filled void below an old-style wooden grandstand, wasn't it?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

As a Bradfordian, can somebody with more knowledge of material science than I, please explain how Forest Green Rovers have been given permission to build a brand new stadium from wood? Can wood be made 100% fireproof? I would hate to see the Valley Parade fire repeated. RIP the 56.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As a Bradfordian, can somebody with more knowledge of material science than I, please explain how Forest Green Rovers have been given permission to build a brand new stadium from wood? Can wood be made 100% fireproof? I would hate to see the Valley Parade fire repeated. RIP the 56.

I'd be interested to see the carbon footprint of such a project, too. I'm not convinced that the eco-project at FGR is all it's cracked up to be. Not least because it's a nightmare to get to by rail. Forest Green Rovers? More like Forest Greenwashing.

As you say, RIP to the 56. I was only 3 when the fire happened but I can still remember the horrible footage from Look North.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As a Bradfordian, can somebody with more knowledge of material science than I, please explain how Forest Green Rovers have been given permission to build a brand new stadium from wood? Can wood be made 100% fireproof?

Probably not. However, understand that the timber used at the Forest Green stadium has been treated with fire retardant.

Whereas, by contrast, the timber at Valley Parade had been treated with bitumen (!)

More info / PR at the following link...

Zaha Hadid Architects: ‘Why our all-wood Forest Green stadium won’t be a fire risk’

New technologies will ensure there is no repeat of the Bradford City tragedy at Zaha Hadid Architects’ all-timber Forest Green Rovers stadium, says practice director Jim Heverin

www.architectsjournal.co.uk

Brief extract...

It was always going to be a challenge to ensure people were comfortable with the use of timber in a stadium, not least as we remember that timber was a cause of the fire at Bradford City’s Valley Parade ground in 1985.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the Port Vale v Swindon Town match, did Swindon Town once had Paolo Di Canio managing them in recent years?

Di Canio has a portrait tattoo on his back of the leader he admires, which is Benito Mussolini.

It was in conflict with the Show Racism the Red Card campaign that a lot of football clubs were running at the time.

EDIT: Fixed typo

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Regarding the Port Vale v Swinton Town match, did Swindon Town once had Paolo Di Canio managing them in recent years?

Yep, for just under a couple of years between May 2011 and February 2013.

 

[Runningaround]

Probably not. However, understand that the timber used at the Forest Green stadium has been treated with fire retardant.

Whereas, by contrast, the timber at Valley Parade had been treated with bitumen (!)

More info / PR at the following link...

Zaha Hadid Architects: ‘Why our all-wood Forest Green stadium won’t be a fire risk’

New technologies will ensure there is no repeat of the Bradford City tragedy at Zaha Hadid Architects’ all-timber Forest Green Rovers stadium, says practice director Jim Heverin

www.architectsjournal.co.uk

Brief extract...

It's a shame both the new and current ''Green Stadiums'' are miles away from a railway station. I hope the new one isn't on top of a steep narrow lane that blocks buses getting through. It's no wonder most of their fans drive.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Regarding the Port Vale v Swinton Town match, did Swindon Town once had Paolo Di Canio managing them in recent years?

By George, you managed to get my "little grey cells" fully operational with your emboldened mention above of Swinton Town FC.

Swinton Town FC was a former English association football club based in Swinton, West Yorkshire. Their most notable performance was to reach the first qualifying round of the FA Cup in the 1898-1899 season.

 

[Cletus]

Dover Athletic have a wooden stand. Not sure if there any more around the country?
Presumably FGR's would be of a similar material.

New Family Stand for Dover Athletic Football Club - Lee Evans Partnership

November saw the completion of the new Family Stand at Dover Athletic Football Club. The 500 seat spectators stand, including a specially designed area for disabled supporters, also incorporates new facilities for players and officials; changing rooms, a dedicated first aid room and Manager’s...

www.lee-evans.co.uk

 

[adrock1976]

By George, you managed to get my "little grey cells" fully operational with your emboldened mention above of Swinton Town FC.

Swinton Town FC was a former English association football club based in Swinton, West Yorkshire. Their most notable performance was to reach the first qualifying round of the FA Cup in the 1898-1899 season.

Many thanks for mentioning the typo in my previous post, which I have fixed.

Also a good brief mention of the phonetically similar Yorkshire club.

 

[THC]

However, there are honourable exceptions still. it was heartening to see in the Europa League final, despite 100,000+ Rangers fans travelling and I think around 60,000+ Frankfurt fans, there was only one arrest (a German fan).

There were maybe half that number of Rangers fans there, and those that were present were much more drawn from what passes for the prawn sandwich brigade on the southside of Glasgow.

While their good behaviour on this occasion is to be applauded, one only has to remember Manchester in 2008 to know what they can also be like. I'm not sure that the Spanish police would have tolerated any such nonsense.

THC

 

[SteveM70]

Dover Athletic have a wooden stand. Not sure if there any more around the country?

I think Dartford do, although I’ve only been once and it was 7 years ago so my memory may not be accurate

 

[adrock1976]

Dover Athletic have a wooden stand. Not sure if there any more around the country?
Presumably FGR's would be of a similar material.
SNIP IMAGE

I do recall Aggborough (Kidderminster Harriers), Moss Rose (Macclesfield Town), and Broadhall Way (Stevenage Borough) all having wooden stands similar to Valley Parade (Bradford City pre 1985 fire).

When those three sides won the Nationwide Conference back in 1994, 1995, and 1996, they were debarred from being promoted to the fourth tier due to having wooden stands. However, they were rebuilt and have won the fifth tier since then and were able to be promoted.

 

[kristiang85]

There were maybe half that number of Rangers fans there, and those that were present were much more drawn from what passes for the prawn sandwich brigade on the southside of Glasgow.

While their good behaviour on this occasion is to be applauded, one only has to remember Manchester in 2008 to know what they can also be like. I'm not sure that the Spanish police would have tolerated any such nonsense.

THC

Manchester 2008 was not helped by poor, provocative policing and a lot of Chelsea ultras went up to cause trouble too.

Oddly the Spanish police are not known for their leniency with British football fans, but seemed to get it completely right last week.

 

[THC]

York City and Dorking Wanderers promoted to the National League after today's play-off finals. The match at Meadowbank was particularly intense - Ebbsfleet took the lead in the third minute of injury time only for Dorking to equalise in the tenth! And then Dorking went on to win it in extra time. Scenes!

THC

 

[AlterEgo]

Sunderland deservedly beat Wycombe at Wembley to book their place in the Championship. Wycombe are a glorified pub side so that's a good result. Sunderland play decent football and have incredible support.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Sunderland deservedly beat Wycombe at Wembley to book their place in the Championship. Wycombe are a glorified pub side so that's a good result. Sunderland play decent football and have incredible support.

A bit harsh, that. They'd have been in the Championship this season if Derby had been punished by the EFL in a timely manner. Big crowds don't (and shouldn't) guarantee success.

 

[AlterEgo]

A bit harsh, that. They'd have been in the Championship this season if Derby had been punished by the EFL in a timely manner. Big crowds don't (and shouldn't) guarantee success.

Have you seen Wycombe play this season? Horrid to watch. If they’d been in the Championship this season they’d still be in League One next season.

 

[Grecian 1998]

I'd be interested to see the carbon footprint of such a project, too. I'm not convinced that the eco-project at FGR is all it's cracked up to be. Not least because it's a nightmare to get to by rail. Forest Green Rovers? More like Forest Greenwashing.

FGR have a stadium they almost never fill. The owner wants to build a stadium next to junction 13 of the M5 with a population of almost 0 within reasonable walking or cycling distance. Even if the stadium is built with wood, it hasn't grown on a tree so the carbon footprint of building the stadium will be huge. The fact that everyone will need to use motorised transport to get there may also create a rather large carbon footprint. Even if the vast majority of fans travel from Nailsworth / Stroud by electric coach (which seems remarkably unlikely; most people will likely drive), again the construction of the coaches has a sizable carbon footprint. In comparison they could stay at the stadium which has already been built which they don't fill, within walking distance of where most of their fans live.

There's also the question of how it is sustainable to move a club somewhere with no local population. Perhaps the idea is that the can become a national club for people who regard themselves as environmentalists, but it will involve all of them using transport to actually get to the ground from all over the country. Much of the transport used probably won't be very green, so it's questionable how environmentally friendly this will be in practice.

The prospective ground would be near the Bristol-Birmingham line, but the chances of a station opening to serve the stadium seem pretty remote.

I may sound bitter because of the last day of the season, but this has been my view for a long time.

Sunderland deservedly beat Wycombe at Wembley to book their place in the Championship. Wycombe are a glorified pub side so that's a good result. Sunderland play decent football and have incredible support.

Off the field that's harsh on Wycombe - there's much to admire and they have grown as a FL club in the right way. On the field that's fair enough - Wycombe have been notorious in their game management in the lower divisions under Ainsworth for many years. Never concede the first goal to them if you can help it - the rest of the game will be painful to watch.

It'll be interesting when they play Derby next season - a lot of lower league fans dislike Wycombe due to their way they play, but the boot will be on the other foot for once.

 

[youngiecj]

York 2 Boston 0. One match too far for us. Disappointing end to a disappointing season. Yet another season in the National League North.