Football

[youngiecj]

Interesting! Normally for National League play-off games, away teams get 15% of the ground capacity (which has been set at a reduced figure of 7,500 for Saturday).

Apparently as we have found out, that rule doesn't exist for the final. Typical National league farce!

 

[Kite159]

Judging by the typical age of those requiring treatment, I doubt it's linked to drugs or alcohol. The football world has just recently started to take incidents very seriously, so whereas in previous years the match would have carried on while someone was receiving treatment, now they stop the game and it suddenly becomes very noticable.


I personally don't see anything wrong with a celebratory pitch invasion, it's a sudden show of passion. Attempting to be heavy handed with the punishment simply doesn't work when thousands of fans pour onto the pitch - you can't ban them all.

The attack on Billy Sharp was a rarity and has been universally condemned. I do believe that the bloke has already been jailed for 6 months for the assault too.

So you think it's perfectly fine to invade the pitch during the game?

Post final whistle is a different story, assuming members of the opposite team are safely out of the way of the drunken fans out to celebrate.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Apparently as we have found out, that rule doesn't exist for the final. Typical National league farce!

Reckon you're right there. Possibly the rules were originally cobbled together on the basis that play off finals would always be at a neutral ground. Presumably that seems no longer to be the case?

 

[roversfan2001]

So you think it's perfectly fine to invade the pitch during the game?

There will inevitably be the odd few that jump over the barrier on occasions like tonight. It's not the end of the world. It's been going on in the lower leagues for years.

Post final whistle is a different story, assuming members of the opposite team are safely out of the way of the drunken fans out to celebrate.

The sober fans can come on as soon as the final whistle blows then?

The only way to prevent pitch invasions is to cage fans in again, which won't be done for obvious reasons. Punish the fans that cause trouble; attempting to introduce excessive punishment for everyone invading the pitch wouldn't work.

 

[Scotrail84]

Evertons pitch invasion tonight resulted in Vierra being involved in an altercation with an Everton fan, Swindon player(s) attacked at Vale park tonight during a pitch invasion after the penalties. Points deductions won't work, I'm not sure about England but up in Scotland theres no such thing as strict liability for clubs over fan behaviour. I'll tell you what will happen in England, stadium closure or part closures will be given out as punishment or netting will be put up in front of stands to stop pitch invaders. Similar to what a lot of stadiums have in mainland Europe and it will all be your own fault English football fans. Reap what you sow.

A Notts Forest fan has already been given 6 months in the pokey and banned from the ground for life, that sentence was handed out long before kick offs tonight so jail and a banning order obviously isn't a deterrent enough.

 

[AlterEgo]

Port Vale tonight - more pitch invasions and punches thrown at players.

It's now a serious problem.

 

[D6968]

How is stewarding these days? I used to have a mate who used to work at the Albion who used to do a bit of door work from time to time, basically a big old unit who could handle himself if needed, I’ve seen it myself at one game, when he politely told a group doing the conga to go sit back down.
A 19 year old, 12 stone doing a bit of security work as a temp, wouldn’t have had the authority or experience to have nipped that in the bud before it got serious.
As ever are we seeing things being done on cheap in this country and then wondering why they’re happening?

 

[AlterEgo]

Just jail people who assault other fans and players. Needs a hard line. Also immediate prison sentences for anyone bringing a pyro in. Pyros are illegal and yet the media and many clubs (and fan bases) glorify them.

 

[D6968]

Just jail people who assault other fans and players. Needs a hard line. Also immediate prison sentences for anyone bringing a pyro in. Pyros are illegal and yet the media and many clubs (and fan bases) glorify them.

And where are the police and court systems to do this?

 

[AlterEgo]

And where are the police and court systems to do this?

We managed to arrest and process 3,000 people in the 2011 riots which was only a few days long.

How many people do you think are punching footballers? Everyone with a flare or pyro should go to jail. Someone’s going to get killed.

 

[Spartacus]

How has this seemingly become the norm? This is how it starts and then it escalates. It gets on the telly, social media and in the press, other fans from other clubs trying to outdo each other, then it becomes about hate and then it's nothing to do with football any more. It's about gangs and scumbags roaming the country seeing who can cause the most trouble. Safe standing will be cancelled for a start, and if this continues someone will overreact, and they have to put up perimeter fences again and treat the fans like animals. Forty, fifty thousand people herded into pens, and then how long before something happens again? How long before something terrible happens and we are dragging bodies out again? How many dead before football fans learn to behave again?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Forty, fifty thousand people herded into pens, and then how long before something happens again?

One of the better things to have occurred was the advent of all-seating stadiums, which obviated the "herded into pens" syndrome to which you refer above.

 

[kristiang85]

There definitely seems to be an increasing problem in violent and anti social acts in public now, not just in sport but in many other walks of life. It is borne out in statistics that common assaults have been rising since around 2015, and gone up sharply in the last couple of years (I saw a graph the other day but cannot for the life of me remember where).

My theory? The proliferation of social media in our lives, and the increased polarisation of the population because of it. When people can only see opinions in 240 characters all nuance is getting lost, the art of debate and respecting others' opinions/loyalties is dying, and being abusive to each other online is becoming so normalised that it is now seeping into face to face encounters. Football is starting to show this quite starkly, given it is already quite a powder keg environment, but it definitely is becoming a problem elsewhere too.

However, there are honourable exceptions still. it was heartening to see in the Europa League final, despite 100,000+ Rangers fans travelling and I think around 60,000+ Frankfurt fans, there was only one arrest (a German fan).

 

[SteveM70]

And where are the police and court systems to do this?

So here’s a thing. I was at Stockport v Halifax last Sunday, a capacity crowd with about 9,000 home fans and 1,000 away. Stockport got the win that ensured they won the title and promotion to the football league, and it was obvious from about 85 minutes there’d be a massive pitch invasion at full time, as loads of fans had climbed over the low wall in front of two of the stands and were stood on the grass (but not on the pitch).

Once the final whistle went there was a pitch invasion, and about 20 stewards tried to create a cordon across the edge of one penalty area to stop the Stockport fans getting too close to the Halifax fans behind that goal. It didn’t work. There was the usual goading and posturing from the Stone Island mobs on both sides, some stuff was thrown, and it looked like it was going to get really ugly.

Then within a few minutes about 50 police arrived and everything calmed down. It’s clear that the idiots have no respect for the authority of the stewards, but they do take notice of the police

As we left I said to the copper in charge “you arrived a few minutes late”, to which he replied they’d been outside the whole match, but because Stockport refused to pay them, they wouldn’t enter the ground until something happened that required them.

Clubs shouldn’t be given the option to do this when it’s a big match with a likelihood of a pitch invasion at the end

 

[DarloRich]

All this pitch invasion stuff is getting blown well out of proportion. There have always been end of season pitch invasions more so if you win something. I have been in plenty of them. That isn't the problem. The problem is chavs acting up.

 

[roversfan2001]

Everyone with a flare or pyro should go to jail. Someone’s going to get killed.

There is a massive distinction between the two. There is absolutely no need for an actual flare at a football ground.

The aversion to both does seem to be a uniquely UK issue. Continental Europe (particularly Germany and Poland) seem to embrace them.

 

[Scotrail84]

How has this seemingly become the norm? This is how it starts and then it escalates. It gets on the telly, social media and in the press, other fans from other clubs trying to outdo each other, then it becomes about hate and then it's nothing to do with football any more. It's about gangs and scumbags roaming the country seeing who can cause the most trouble. Safe standing will be cancelled for a start, and if this continues someone will overreact, and they have to put up perimeter fences again and treat the fans like animals. Forty, fifty thousand people herded into pens, and then how long before something happens again? How long before something terrible happens and we are dragging bodies out again? How many dead before football fans learn to behave again?

Sam Tyler

Just jail people who assault other fans and players. Needs a hard line. Also immediate prison sentences for anyone bringing a pyro in. Pyros are illegal and yet the media and many clubs (and fan bases) glorify them.

Are they?

There is a massive distinction between the two. There is absolutely no need for an actual flare at a football ground.

The aversion to both does seem to be a uniquely UK issue. Continental Europe (particularly Germany and Poland) seem to embrace them.

As well as Greece, italy and Scandinavia.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why is there a perceived need to consume alcohol prior to attending a sports event?

 

[Scotrail84]

We managed to arrest and process 3,000 people in the 2011 riots which was only a few days long.

How many people do you think are punching footballers? Everyone with a flare or pyro should go to jail. Someone’s going to get killed.

Laughable, completely unrealistic to jail anyone with a fare or smoke bomb.

There definitely seems to be an increasing problem in violent and anti social acts in public now, not just in sport but in many other walks of life. It is borne out in statistics that common assaults have been rising since around 2015, and gone up sharply in the last couple of years (I saw a graph the other day but cannot for the life of me remember where).

My theory? The proliferation of social media in our lives, and the increased polarisation of the population because of it. When people can only see opinions in 240 characters all nuance is getting lost, the art of debate and respecting others' opinions/loyalties is dying, and being abusive to each other online is becoming so normalised that it is now seeping into face to face encounters. Football is starting to show this quite starkly, given it is already quite a powder keg environment, but it definitely is becoming a problem elsewhere too.

However, there are honourable exceptions still. it was heartening to see in the Europa League final, despite 100,000+ Rangers fans travelling and I think around 60,000+ Frankfurt fans, there was only one arrest (a German fan).

That doesn't hide the fact there was lots of trouble though, plenty videos doing the rounds showing this, fans fighting in the streets, in bars and Rangers fans singing their usual party songs about hating Catholics.

Why is there a perceived need to consume alcohol prior to attending a sports event?

Its called socialising. Part of the mtachday/event experience.

One of the better things to have occurred was the advent of all-seating stadiums, which obviated the "herded into pens" syndrome to which you refer above.

Remember, terracing wasn't unsafe on its own, it was the uncontrolled numbers coupled in with the high fences and pens that were dangerous. At the time though hooliganism was rife so pens and high fences were seen as an ideal solution.

 

[Spartacus]

Sam Tyler



Are they?



As well as Greece, italy and Scandinavia.

Spot on with Sam Tyler (with a few changes to keep it up to date.) Flares are prohibited at, as far as I know, all grounds in the UK, and also in many places abroad, the Stade De France for instance, in fact everywhere I'm looking, including places like Germany and Italy, have bans on fans bringing pyrotechnics.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If Burnley win 1-0 at home to Newcastle United and then Leeds United win 22-0 away at Brentford, Leeds will be safe from relegation.

Its called socialising. Part of the mtachday/event experience.

I think that is the continuation of the local heritage that was fostered by the breweries in the 19th/20th century to equate the products with "socialising".

Do people attending theatre, opera and ballet need to pre-indulge in alcohol intake, prior to attending performances?

 

[Spartacus]

One of the better things to have occurred was the advent of all-seating stadiums, which obviated the "herded into pens" syndrome to which you refer above.

There's nothing inherently dangerous or trouble causing about standing terraces, they've continued in other sports without incident, it's the behaviour of those in them, and as it's increasingly being proven, seats don't necessarily make people behave themselves. If people keep insisting on invading the pitch and attacking club members the fences might go back up, along with the associated rush to be at the front when something exciting happens.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There's nothing inherently dangerous or trouble causing about standing terraces, they've continued in other sports without incident, it's the behaviour of those in them, and as it's increasingly being proven, seats don't necessarily make people behave themselves.

That being the case, after ejecting the offenders as soon as incidents occur in the confines of the spectator area, what is there to stop offenders turning up at the next home match?

 

[Spartacus]

That being the case, after ejecting the offenders as soon as incidents occur in the confines of the spectator area, what is there to stop offenders turning up at the next home match?

Revoking memberships and banning them from the ground, making it difficult for them to buy tickets, football banning orders which make it an offence to attend matches at ANY regulated ground in the UK, and can result in confiscation of passports during relevant matches abroad. A Euro or World Cup campaign could severely dent your holiday plans.

 

[roversfan2001]

Are they?

Simply being in possession of one isn't (for adults at least). The act of attempting to enter a football stadium with one is a criminal offence, the definition of 'attempting to enter' is (predictably for football related offences) incredibly wide ranging and isn't limited to being found with one at the turnstiles.

 

[DarloRich]

Why is there a perceived need to consume alcohol prior to attending a sports event?

Have you seen Darlington play?

 

[Spartacus]

Have you seen Darlington play?

It's not normally the players doing the consuming, at least not these days!

 

[DarloRich]

Do people attending theatre, opera and ballet need to pre-indulge in alcohol intake, prior to attending performances?

I tend to go for meal and have a drink before the theatre. You can also get a very civilised drink at half time in the theatre. One can pre order which is nice.

At the Globe one can drink whilst standing in the groundlings area. People often turn up with a good selection of cans

It's not normally the players doing the consuming, at least not these days!

being on the pop might improve the defending and mean i don't need as many to steady my nerves!

 

[kristiang85]

The way its going, I can see them using technology as a solution - for example, something like the Turkish 'Passolig' card. These were brought in to control excessive hooliganism, as each fan now has ID to go with their tickets (all electronic). It would at least be less intrusive for fans than a return to fencing, and some clubs already have electronic systems in place anyway.

However, I would not want to go down that route - it would be yet another example of a minority ruining something for a peaceful majority.

 

[roversfan2001]

The way its going, I can see them using technology as a solution - for example, something like the Turkish 'Passolig' card. These were brought in to control excessive hooliganism, as each fan now has ID to go with their tickets (all electronic). It would at least be less intrusive for fans than a return to fencing, and some clubs already have electronic systems in place anyway.

However, I would not want to go down that route - it would be yet another example of a minority ruining something for a peaceful majority.

They've got similar in Poland, along with some very intimate searching.

I don't think it'd solve the assaulting players issue though. There's plenty of CCTV at football stadia in this country, and all three instances of assault this week occured during televised games so there's all the Sky/BT footage too. Needing a passport/driving licence to get into the ground won't deter these people, given they're already extremely likely to be identified already.