Football

[DarloRich]

But I'm getting fed up with some of the media hysteria. I simply don't believe that THOUSAND of people died building stadiums. That implies death rate was worse than Victorian tunnelling (railway link). Actual facts are thin on the ground but the 15,000 figure seems to be TOTAL migrant deaths over a 10 year period...

If we think safety standards in Qatar matter (and I would argue we should) then we should aim to get our facts straight. There must be Western engineers involved who could give an off-the-record briefing.

How many deaths are we happy to have in return for the construction of a football stadium? 3? 33? 333? 3333? It seems the answer is 37. I would go for none but that is very "woke" of me.

The truth is Qatar is engaging large numbers of semi skilled people from less well off countries ( Nepal often mentioned) on terrible terms and paying them peanuts to work in terribly dangerous conditions building not just pointless football stadiums but all of the building boom that Qatar is enjoying.

 

[Broucek]

How many deaths are we happy to have in return for the construction of a football stadium? 3? 33? 333? 3333? It seems the answer is 37. I would go for none but that is very "woke" of me.

Not at all woke. I completely agree. I just think that using obviously wrong numbers to make an argument shows that we're not actually serious about this.

I do consultancy work in construction, mining and oil & gas. Whilst getting to zero is extremely hard, particularly in the developing world, 37 is a HORRIBLE number by modern standards

 

[DarloRich]

I do consultancy work in construction, mining and oil & gas. Whilst getting to zero is extremely hard, particularly in the developing world, 37 is a HORRIBLE number by modern standards

Agreed. God knows what the true figure in the wider Qatari construction industry is as they are very careful about classifying deaths as "non construction" and refuse to recognise a link between industry and illness. I bet it is a high number.

BTW - I wasn't having a go. It is just that any complaint about the WC seems to be classed as "woke"! As if saying: you know what we really shouldn't be killing people to build football grounds is a BAD thing.

 

[AlterEgo]

Clearly, it goes without saying that the WC should not be in Qatar.

But I'm getting fed up with some of the media hysteria. I simply don't believe that THOUSAND of people died building stadiums. That implies death rate was worse than Victorian tunnelling (railway link). Actual facts are thin on the ground but the 15,000 figure seems to be TOTAL migrant deaths over a 10 year period...

Yes, this does appear to be a complete conflation. It seems clear that perhaps dozens of workers died while building the stadiums - and not all in accidents either, but perhaps some of natural causes - but 15,000 is ridiculous.

It is just that any complaint about the WC seems to be classed as "woke"!

Of course. But it does work both ways. England are going to take the knee today in Qatar. They shouldn't even be there. They're in service to FIFA - a totally corrupt entity which desperately needs replacing as the sport's governing body.

We also do not need to be perfect to complain about Qatar's unsuitability as a place to hold the world's most prestigious single sport tournament - a sport which is supposedly for everyone to enjoy.

 

[Geezertronic]

England are going to take the knee today in Qatar

If they did, they didn't do it very well or for long as I missed it (was too busy trying to get the dog off the sofa)

 

[dgl]

I can't really stand football but all this talk of them now not wearing the armbands because "they could get a yellow card" seems like they still don't understand or really care, anyway what they should have done in the first place which was to simply not attend, if most of the major footballing nations say "we will not be taking part" then FIFA end up with a somewhat pointless event, sponsors wanting their money back, and the good chance that this corrupt organisation get's the heave ho.
They could have taken the world cup away from Qatar at any point and there would have been loads of countries that could have hosted it at last minute, but money talks.

Of course some people make the argument that we should abide by the rules/regulations of the country we are visiting and this is true to some extent, but this not like "no drinking after 12pm", this is people being killed because they do not fit their stupid beliefs, people who are normal people in most other countries and should be in all countries.

 

[AlterEgo]

If they did, they didn't do it very well or for long as I missed it (was too busy trying to get the dog off the sofa)

They did, according to Twitter.

 

[GS250]

I can't really stand football but all this talk of them now not wearing the armbands because "they could get a yellow card" seems like they still don't understand or really care, anyway what they should have done in the first place which was to simply not attend, if most of the major footballing nations say "we will not be taking part" then FIFA end up with a somewhat pointless event, sponsors wanting their money back, and the good chance that this corrupt organisation get's the heave ho.
They could have taken the world cup away from Qatar at any point and there would have been loads of countries that could have hosted it at last minute, but money talks.

Of course some people make the argument that we should abide by the rules/regulations of the country we are visiting and this is true to some extent, but this not like "no drinking after 12pm", this is people being killed because they do not fit their stupid beliefs, people who are normal people in most other countries and should be in all countries.

The problem here is that we've had relentless lessons and lectures on 'diversity' and especially 'Islamophobia'. We move the World Cup to a very Islamic country and yet there's not a shred of this famed tolerance that is apparently expected of us all.

By the way well played England. Some concerns about our back line still valid. However midfield looks very decent.

 

[Falcon1200]

To answer my own question in Post #29123 about attendances, around 55,000 today for the England match, in a 68,000 capacity stadium.

A bizarre moment in the Netherlands/Senegal game when the referee had to check that the ball was properly inflated. For more hot air, just see Mr Infantino.

 

[adrock1976]

I’m not going to watch any of the tournament partly out of protest but also because I can’t be bothered. I’ve no enthusiasm for it and it’s about time FIFA’s corruption was not rewarded. I hope the whole tournament is a disaster.

I'm like yourself in that I have boycotted the tournament.

One of the things apart from Sepp Blatter's corruption when he awarded the tournament to Quatar that did it for me was the participation of Saudi Arabia in the finals. Saudi Arabia are presently in a conflict with Yemen (that never gets mentioned very often on the news) and should have been expelled like how Russia was expelled for the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.

There again, the Saudi Arabian Government are best buddies with the UK and USA Governments (with both selling arms to Saudi Arabia which is the main reason for the prolonged conflict in Yemen), therefore any expulsions are unlikely to happen.

 

[Broucek]

Looks like the procurement process for the ticket app was just as, er, robust as the one for choosing the host country

 

[43096]

However midfield looks very decent.

Rice and Bellingham is a very well matched pairing. Much better balance than when Phillips plays.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Why is it that the local support seem to treat every forward pass with a scream more suited to riding a roller coaster or being surprised by a spooky ghost?

Bring back vuvuzelas, all is forgiven!

 

[Cowley]

Why is it that the local support seem to treat every forward pass with a scream more suited to riding a roller coaster or being surprised by a spooky ghost?

Bring back vuvuzelas, all is forgiven!

I remember it being like that when it was held in Japan. It became very irritating!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes, this does appear to be a complete conflation. It seems clear that perhaps dozens of workers died while building the stadiums - and not all in accidents either, but perhaps some of natural causes - but 15,000 is ridiculous.

I think it was rather more than dozens, Qatar are good to make sure its not a "work-related" death. A heart attack after a long day's hard physical exertion in 45C heat is just natural causes, after all.

But yes, the deaths refer to all deaths amongst itinerant workers, not just World Cup workers.

And, in fairness, Qatar have improved, and far more so than their near neighbours. I think they deserve more credit. Its not as fast an improvement as we'd like, but give credit and they might carry on.

As it turns out, the ticketing app doesn't work and, even where it does, attendances are rubbish. 45,000 for the England match, in a ground that holds 68,000. And it looks like the locals have gone to tonight's Wales game dressed as red plastic seats too.

 

[SteveM70]

And it looks like the locals have gone to tonight's Wales game dressed as red plastic seats too

Why go to Qatar for that when you can get it in Middlesbrough?

 

[DarloRich]

I would just like to point out that the scorer of the greatest goal Wembley has ever seen is a masseuse for the Welsh national team. Chrissy Senior: You are a hero!

Why go to Qatar for that when you can get it in Middlesbrough?

When do Wales play in Middlesbrough? Are tickets on sale?

Why is it that the local support seem to treat every forward pass with a scream more suited to riding a roller coaster or being surprised by a spooky ghost?

because i suspect many of the people at the games haven't been to a match before and have no none to explain to them how you are meant to be really depressed and cynical at the match

 

[SteveM70]

I would just like to point out that the scorer of the greatest goal Wembley has ever seen is a masseuse for the Welsh national team. Chrissy Senior: You are a hero!

A Halifax Town legend as well

When do Wales play in Middlesbrough? Are tickets on sale?

Selling tickets spoils the empty red seat effect

 

[Darandio]

As it turns out, the ticketing app doesn't work and, even where it does, attendances are rubbish. 45,000 for the England match, in a ground that holds 68,000. And it looks like the locals have gone to tonight's Wales game dressed as red plastic seats too.

Yet FIFA claim an attendance tonight of 43418 in a stadium that they also claim holds 40000.

 

[GS250]

A Halifax Town legend as well

Speaking of which have started to climb up the table after a terrible start. Looking forward to our trip there in January. The 3 Pigeons awaits.....

 

[SteveM70]

Speaking of which have started to climb up the table after a terrible start. Looking forward to our trip there in January. The 3 Pigeons awaits.....

Also recommended:

- the Shears, down at Paris Gates but within 400 yards of t'Shay https://www.facebook.com/shearsinnparisgateshalifax/

- the Victorian Craft Beer Cafe, town centre but close enough http://victorian.beer

- Grayston Unity in town. Tiny but ace beer. https://thegraystonunity.co.uk

- Meandering Bear. Owned by the Grayston Unity people https://www.meanderingbear.co.uk

 

[GS250]

Also recommended:

- the Shears, down at Paris Gates but within 400 yards of t'Shay https://www.facebook.com/shearsinnparisgateshalifax/

- the Victorian Craft Beer Cafe, town centre but close enough http://victorian.beer

- Grayston Unity in town. Tiny but ace beer. https://thegraystonunity.co.uk

- Meandering Bear. Owned by the Grayston Unity people https://www.meanderingbear.co.uk

Yeh Halifax was the surprise away trip of last season. Initial stop off at Hebden Bridge and then the Town itself. Loved the old school band in the shopping arcade.

 

[ChrisC]

I’m really struggling to find any kind of enthusiasm for this at the moment. I don’t know if tomorrow’s game might light some kind of faint spark in me but at the moment it’s leaving me completely cold.

I’ve completely had enough of the World Cup already and it’s hardly started yet. I’ve just switched the BBC 10 O’clock News off after only about 2 minutes. It was the headlines and is obviously going to take up a good percentage of the programme. Last night over the half of the main BBC News was devoted to matters about the World Cup. There’s far more important things happening in the world and our own country than this.

 

[REVUpminster]

Watching the England Iran game and the crowd shots which to be fair to both sides was mainly men, but to see some of the Iranian women not wearing hijabs was very brave.

 

[Bantamzen]

Watching the England Iran game and the crowd shots which to be fair to both sides was mainly men, but to see some of the Iranian women not wearing hijabs was very brave.

I don't know if it is just me being cynical, but some sections of the crowds looked very rent-a-crowd to me. Certainly England's support seemed subdued other than a singing section (which the cameras largely avoided), and the Dutch crowd were really quiet, not like them at all. I'm not sure if its the lack of beer in the grounds, or the demographics of the support owing to the cost, or if those air conditioning vents around the ground are actually noise cancelling speakers...

But the exception of the Welsh (and even they were fairly quiet after a bit) & perhaps the Senegal drummers it all feels like a series of pre-season friendlies, not a world cup.

 

[GWRtom]

Well as much as I hate to say it, What a performance by KSA!

 

[KashmireHawker]

Safe to say the blue touch paper has been well and truly lit! What a stunning win by Saudi Arabia.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Some of the refereeing has been atrocious in this tournament. Just seen a blatant penalty for Denmark turned down. Ref awarded a goal kick to Tunisia despite the ball not going out of play.

 

[Red Onion]

Some of the refereeing has been atrocious in this tournament. Just seen a blatant penalty for Denmark turned down. Ref awarded a goal kick to Tunisia despite the ball not going out of play.

Utterly baffled by that decision.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Safe to say the blue touch paper has been well and truly lit! What a stunning win by Saudi Arabia.

One of the all time shock results.
Great to see penalties being awarded for holding in the box, hopefully this will be replicated in the domestic scene, and in matches without VAR, referees will be more alert to it although of course they do only have one set of eyes (plus potentially assistance from a linesman) although int their defence both have to be on the lookout for multiple simultaneous offences. All too often if a decision is given it is given against the attacker.

That said, there is still a lack of consistency as noted:

Some of the refereeing has been atrocious in this tournament. Just seen a blatant penalty for Denmark turned down. Ref awarded a goal kick to Tunisia despite the ball not going out of play.

Utterly baffled by that decision.