forced to buy single ticket, because ticket machine didnt print

[island]

Some Virgin TVMs print receipts onto till roll type paper.

 

[sor]

The problem is that most of the time the ticket has actually printed, it's just failed to drop into the collection hopper. So unless you figure out a way to count the number of tickets that have dropped there's no easy way to detect this fault.

Detecting whether an item has gone through a gap seems to be a problem the vending machine industry has already solved.

 

[bb21]

Detecting whether an item has gone through a gap seems to be a problem the vending machine industry has already solved.

I am not au fait with technology in that area but does the solution apply only to items over a minimum size/weight?

 

[wellwhatitis]

welcome to the railway - if it's not the wrong kind of 'waxing' on the blank tickets, it's the poorly designed equipment. How frustrating must it be for the commission based conductors, when their equipment doesn't last half a shift or indeed their machine constantly non issues? Will the TOC do anything? I doubt it as it, the TOC, can only gain from these issues, regardless of whether it's employee or the customer who is penalised..

Extremely. Yesterday I lost about £30 commission on my first portion because my PDA completely froze and wouldn't reset. I had the luxury of a Coach and 2 trainees working my train so it would have been a free hit for me on a train well known for ticketless travel. Due to the ridiculous inter depot politics we have to suffer, the Avantix lobby where I was working wouldn't lend me a replacement as I was from a depot 8 miles away, despite us being the same company and me being able to return it within a couple of hours.
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I have to say that in most cases when I come across this scenario I charge for a new ticket. There is a massive problem with people giving return portions to friends and claiming not to have them and trying to return on the out portion. Also people that have already used the return portion and want to travel for nothing the next time.

If they are genuine they will try to reclaim the extra ticket cost and will probably succeed, whereas your average fare dodger probably won't bother.

 

[Flamingo]

It's always a difficult call, hence my suggestion to go to the fluffy bunnys in Customer Services.

I will usually tell the passenger to look again, I'll come back in a few minutes but if they hadn't found it by then, it'll be a new ticket. It's amazing how many people find it - and come following me down the carriage with it!

 

[krus_aragon]

I am not au fait with technology in that area but does the solution apply only to items over a minimum size/weight?

I think stamp vending machines, and for that matter cash machines, show that pieces of paper can be counted out reliably when desired. (Cost may be another matter.)

 

[island]

I think stamp vending machines, and for that matter cash machines, show that pieces of paper can be counted out reliably when desired. (Cost may be another matter.)

They do not also need to print anything.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

They do not also need to print anything.

Stamp vending machines, of the type found in major city centre post offices, do print the postage etc. onto a sticker.

 

[najaB]

Stamp vending machines, of the type found in major city centre post offices, do print the postage etc. onto a sticker.

The difference being that they print from a continuous roll, and deliver the stamps without cutting them, so it's fairly difficult for one stamp to get stuck in the machinery.

 

[Bletchleyite]

OK, then...if it's accepted that the machines sometimes fail, there needs to be a better way of handling that - a clear procedure shown on the machine, and presumption in favour of the customer.

Not everyone can afford to buy an Anytime Single and claim it back.

Will that cause fraud losses? Perhaps. But that's tough on the railway. It shouldn't be tough on the customer.

Neil

 

[najaB]

OK, then...if it's accepted that the machines sometimes fail, there needs to be a better way of handling that - a clear procedure shown on the machine, and presumption in favour of the customer.

No argument from me on that one. There might need to be different procedures for TOD collections that have failed as opposed to purchases.

 

[jon0844]

Detecting whether an item has gone through a gap seems to be a problem the vending machine industry has already solved.

Fruit machines have been able to detect coins being paid out for goodness knows how long.

Although, it was possible to trick the sensor into thinking no coin had fallen (by using a light shoved up) that resulted in the hopper constantly trying to pay - and emptying itself.

It's not difficult, but it does add an extra maintenance item for servicing because a failed sensor could stop the successful issuing of tickets, but at least it's a fail safe. If it fails, the customer isn't left with only a partial delivery of tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not difficult, but it does add an extra maintenance item for servicing because a failed sensor could stop the successful issuing of tickets, but at least it's a fail safe. If it fails, the customer isn't left with only a partial delivery of tickets.

And that's the situation we want to avoid - like a cash machine, we want either full delivery, or no delivery and the booking remaining marked uncollected / the card not billed / the cash returned.

A bit like a physical version of a database transaction, almost.

And "no delivery" more than once in a period of time should cause the machine to set itself out of order.

Neil