France: Region builds new TGV station, it only gets a 'parliamentary' service.

[Frothy]

A couple of years back, a new TGV line opened in eastern France to speed up the Journey between Paris and Geneva. The line failed in its objective to get the time down below 3 hours. The line, known as the 'Ligne du Haut Bugey', previously existed as a regional line until the 1990s, when it was shut down. Re-opened as a high-speed (it's not high-speed at all, really) line in 2010, it followed the previous route pretty much exactly, and is now used for all trains between Paris and Geneva. Only one brand new station was built along the line - at Nurieux - to serve a more populated area. The new station cost €2M, and is electrified and has three platforms but is unstaffed. It was built for the TGV, but only sees one TGV calling each day in each direction, and three regional trains each day in each direction (1 on Sundays; when the line opened, it was one a day each way every day).

I just fail to see how the relevant bodies justified spending this money on a station which sees so few services and is so lightly used as a result, with only 18,500 pax in 2012. There are projects to increase the number of services, but for a new build station the service level is pitiful, and unthinkable for a new station in the UK.

Thoughts?

Photos here

Wiki article here.

Päx figure here

Train service here (link will expire on 1 May 2013)

 

[rf_ioliver]

I always found how SNCF run their regional services plainly weird - makes traveling around very awkward when there's just a few trains per day at very odd times - so finding a station in France with just a few trains per day doesn't surprise me.

There do appear to be quite a few Geneva-Paris TGV services over that line (bahn.hafas.de) so the reconstruction of the line was probably worth it; though I see that the Swiss investors were a little unhappy with the failure to improve timings under 3 hours for the journey.

I guess that the main reason for the reconstruction of Nurieux and the poor services was politics, but I will admit there does seem to be something against "clockface" or regular connecting trains in some parts of rural France

I once read the reason was that the timetables were enshrined in stone when they carried local workers at the start and ends of their shifts...maybe...?

t.

icosm

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps they've got plans to introduce more stops in the future ?

I suppose four trains a day could be said to be enough to provide a transport lifeline in the area and justify what is in effect a wayside halt (this probably could have been built a lot more cheaply but there are probably understandable issues of civic pride ).

What's puzzling me is why the route seems to have been closed for such a long interlude !

(have just been watching Allo Allo, so am in a cosmopolitan mood at the mo).

 

[gingerheid]

If they realised they had journey time problems that would be a reason to try and cut out as many trains as possible!

 

[Bald Rick]

Hardly unprecedented.

Tap 'France Beetroot stations' into Google and see what you get.

 

[Frothy]

Perhaps they've got plans to introduce more stops in the future ?

That's just the thing, they haven't got any place to increase services! The region is arguing against stopping any further trains there, as they want to cut back costs on the line. The only reason more trains were put on was because of local lobbying (which in France at least seems to be more effective than in the UK).

Ultimately, when the line was rebuilt the stations that were between Bourg (at one end) and Nurieux in the middle of the line could have just been closed outright, but they were kept and spruced up, which the region spent another chunk of money on. Again, when the line reopened in 2010, they saw just one train a day. Madness, but yes hardly unprecedented.

 

[NSEFAN]

The problem for rural train travel in France is the sparse population. Not only do we have a higher population density on this side of the Channel, but a lot of our towns are closer together compared to France, so regional trains make more economic sense. We also have a thing for clockface timetables here, a concept that doesn't really exist in France (this was certainly the case when I visited a couple of years ago). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, more indicative of the geographical and cultural differences between the two countries.

I suppose the nearest equivalent we have to Nurieux is Teeside Airport station, or maybe Brigg?

 

[cle]

Would Eurostar use this line on their proposed Geneva trains?

What would the journey time be from Paris/CDG, 3 hours? With a heavy stopping pattern? Eurostar would probably be non-stop.

That would mean approximately 5 hours 10-15 mins from London?

 

[tbtc]

Four trains a day for a new station? Hmm, not sure what the least used "modern" station is in the UK? There are certainly a few with an hourly service, but I'm struggling to think of a new station ("post-privatisation"/ "post-millenium"?) with less than an hourly service.

The new station cost €2M, and is electrified and has three platforms

The embarassing thing is that this seems pretty cheap compared to the equivalent cost of a new three-platform station in the UK

 

[edwin_m]

Beuly doesn't have an hourly service.

Is Robin Hood Airport still committed to building a station on the Doncaster-Gainsborough line?

 

[yorksrob]

Four trains a day for a new station? Hmm, not sure what the least used "modern" station is in the UK? There are certainly a few with an hourly service, but I'm struggling to think of a new station ("post-privatisation"/ "post-millenium"?) with less than an hourly service.

Aren't they planning a hospital station on the Whitby branch which will get 4 each way per day.

 

[LexyBoy]

only sees one TGV calling each day in each direction, and three regional trains each day in each direction (1 on Sundays; when the line opened, it was one a day each way every day).

That sounds fairly normal by my experience of regional rail travel in France...

 

[87015]

Four trains a day for a new station? Hmm, not sure what the least used "modern" station is in the UK? There are certainly a few with an hourly service, but I'm struggling to think of a new station ("post-privatisation"/ "post-millenium"?) with less than an hourly service

Beauly and the very new Conon Bridge have gaps of much more than an hour. Beauly has a very similar population to Nurieux by Wikipedia, just to give some perspective that we are not exactly talking about a massive urban sprawl...

 

[edwin_m]

Aren't they planning a hospital station on the Whitby branch which will get 4 each way per day.

Most of the Newcastle-Middlesbrough trains run through to Nunthorpe so this station would get a train in most hours.

 

[johnnychips]

Beuly doesn't have an hourly service.

Is Robin Hood Airport still committed to building a station on the Doncaster-Gainsborough line?

No, this would need a massive increase in passengers before viable. There isn't a direct bus from Sheffield.

 

[Eagle]

Beauly and the very new Conon Bridge have gaps of much more than an hour.

Conon Bridge has 14 services in 16 hours southbound, and 11 in 14 hours northbound, so on average it's almost hourly.

(It's asymmetrical due to units splitting at Dingwall, but returning separately.)

 

[edwin_m]

No, this would need a massive increase in passengers before viable. There isn't a direct bus from Sheffield.

I agree it would be totally pointless especially with the present desultory train service, but I had the feeling it was a planning condition.

 

[MK Tom]

Before reading this I hadn't realised there was such a thing as a single track high speed line.

As for the way the TER is run, the geography partly explains it but it's bonkers in other ways too. Services all but disappear after around 6PM, there are no return tickets and the system for peak and off peak travel is downright bizarre.

 

[LWB]

Before reading this I hadn't realised there was such a thing as a single track high speed line.

Of course there is such a thing! Didn't you see the Mission Impossible film

 

[MK Tom]

Of course there is such a thing! Didn't you see the Mission Impossible film

Oh yeah I forgot standard TGVs can operate on classic British loading gauge branch lines with no electrification which also have extremely long tunnels

 

[SF-02]

2 million euros (about £1.6m) for a three platform station? How'd they manage that? Doesn't seem too bad at all cost wise. Pretty much every new station proposal I see in the UK comes attached with massive costs of 10 + times that.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Before reading this I hadn't realised there was such a thing as a single track high speed line.

Sweden's Botniabana is single tracked and used at 250kmh - I think the geometry of the line would allow 300kmh.

Finland is also planning an extension from Lahti to Mikkeli which would also be single tracked for much of its length with similar characteristics.

t.

Ian

 

[starrymarkb]

The Lötschberg base tunnel is also single track for much of it's length...

Looking at some of the curves on the French line there is no way it's 250km/h. It's an upgraded classic line to link in to an LGV

 

[Frothy]

The problem for rural train travel in France is the sparse population. Not only do we have a higher population density on this side of the Channel, but a lot of our towns are closer together compared to France, so regional trains make more economic sense. We also have a thing for clockface timetables here, a concept that doesn't really exist in France (this was certainly the case when I visited a couple of years ago). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, more indicative of the geographical and cultural differences between the two countries.

I suppose the nearest equivalent we have to Nurieux is Teeside Airport station, or maybe Brigg?

I very much agree with the point about sparse population. Although the population of Nurieux itself is small, the station is very much an equivalent to a 'parkway' station in the UK, as it is intended to serve a larger area (including nearby Oyonnax) with a population of around 45,000.
SNCF has in the past two years adopted a clockface timetable across its network (supposedly) but similar to rural branches in the UK such as the Whitby branch there are exceptions, this being one of them.
SNCF 'clockface' services do leave at the same minute past the hour, but often once every two, three or four hours at off-peak times.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Lötschberg base tunnel is also single track for much of it's length...

Looking at some of the curves on the French line there is no way it's 250km/h. It's an upgraded classic line to link in to an LGV

That's exactly right; a lot of the line is restricted to 90km/h.

 

[telstarbox]

There is planning permission for a Robin Hood Airport station, but it's not a condition for any other development. SYPTE want it to be built though.

 

[jopsuk]

Is there anywhere in the UK that's in the middle of a single track line that has more than two platforms?

 

[MK Tom]

Is there anywhere in the UK that's in the middle of a single track line that has more than two platforms?

I take it we're not counting preserved lines? If we were I could name several.

 

[transmanche]

Is there anywhere in the UK that's in the middle of a single track line that has more than two platforms?

Going back quite a few years, Aberystwyth - but that only has a single NR platform now. (But again as the terminus, I guess it doesn't count.)

 

[topydre]

Is there anywhere in the UK that's in the middle of a single track line that has more than two platforms?

Newtown Powys? 2 platforms and a bay with single line afterwards towards Welshpool and towards Caersws

 

[jopsuk]

those are quite like this- which seems to have three through platforms and a single line in both directions. It isn't a junction station, doesn't have bays etc. Three seems rather excessive- unless it's to allow a TGV service to overtake a TER service whilst also crossing a TER going in the other direction?