Franchise Changes

[Zoe]

You should see the higher density HST on FGW very soon. All supposed to be complete by December. Hope it helps thier overcrowding.

Higher density? Are they going to be packing even more seats into the other 7 coaches?

 

[Failed Unit]

Higher density? Are they going to be packing even more seats into the other 7 coaches?

No I was just referring to the fact they will have 6 high density standard coaches. Which will make them the largest number of seats on a HST, more than the 9 car east coast ones. Not sure how they will compare to the 11 car pendo, I have a feeling they may be close in terms of total number of seats.

 

[HH]

Prism only brought in the 357/0s, they had planned to keep a 312 fleet alongside them. NX went for the second batch as 357/2 fleet themselves. I belive NX also own outright (ie not NR) the DOO mirrors and cameras.

But 312s had to be phased out by the time that decision was made, surely? It was why GE bought the 360s around the same time. However the use of regen braking was definitely under NX time. Still, how much is down to NX, and how much down to local management? I don't get the feeling that NX have tinkered much with c2c.
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Seeing they don't even have the final specification against which they are bidding would think NX's bid is along way from finished.

Of course. But it would have interesting information about some of their big ideas.

 

[Schnellzug]

Probably not by much, remember the buffet is heavier than the standard coach. They will still be all 8 coach HSTs anyway and I am not aware of timing differences between the 7s and the 8s. (happy to be corrected)

Not sure if the speed up of journeys because of removal of buffets is a red herring. I don't recall gner slowing down services when the 9th car was added and the MTUs have extra power compared to the power units in place when the timetable was built.

Sounds very much like an Alison Forster excuse for lowering standards in the name of saving money.

 

[HH]

As a proportion of train length, surely Virgin is extremely profligate (with 9 cars particularly).

Given how their first class revenue has fallen off a cliff the last few years then they clearly have far too many seats in first class, which is why they have those special offers at weekends.

 

[David10]

But 312s had to be phased out by the time that decision was made, surely?

No it was only the Mk 1 based stock that had to be withdrawn as decreed by the Health & Safety Executive. The 312s were based on the Mk 2 so could in theory have continued in service, it was more a desire to eliminate slam doors.

 

[Failed Unit]

No it was only the Mk 1 based stock that had to be withdrawn as decreed by the Health & Safety Executive. The 312s were based on the Mk 2 so could in theory have continued in service, it was more a desire to eliminate slam doors.

They would have needed central locking, don't know how difficult that would have bieng. But ultimately slam door = longer dwell times. Which I suspect is why they went. Although standard fleet is also good.

 

[HH]

They would have needed central locking, don't know how difficult that would have bieng. But ultimately slam door = longer dwell times. Which I suspect is why they went. Although standard fleet is also good.

Certainly GE felt that their 312s had to be replaced. IIRC dwell time wasn't seen as a major issue.

 

[Zoe]

They would have needed central locking, don't know how difficult that would have bieng. But ultimately slam door = longer dwell times. Which I suspect is why they went. Although standard fleet is also good.

If you ever went to Barking station at peak times when the 312s were in service often people would run down the stairs, open doors and leap on the train even if it was starting to move. Not quite sure why this was allowed to continue for so long when technology to prevent it had been available for some time.

 

[David10]

If you ever went to Barking station at peak times when the 312s were in service often people would run down the stairs, open doors and leap on the train even if it was starting to move.

I wish my job was so exciting that I felt the need to risk like and limb just to get there 10 minutes earlier.

 

[All Line Rover]

Given how their first class revenue has fallen off a cliff the last few years then they clearly have far too many seats in first class, which is why they have those special offers at weekends.

Where is the fall in revenue documented?

The weekend upgrade - which almost all TOCs offer - makes sense to me, seeing as business travel at weekends is close to nil.

 

[calc7]

Where is the fall in revenue documented?

East Coast's frequent £25 "First Class" sales, and horrendous watering-down the "First Class" product?

 

[All Line Rover]

East Coast's frequent £25 "First Class" sales, and horrendous watering-down the "First Class" product?

But the OP is talking about Virgin here.

 

[calc7]

But the OP is talking about Virgin here.

I know - I was just using the opportunity to deride the insulting stingy EC offering as business travel must have fallen on that route. I agree I am yet to see anything but hearsay as to fall in FC revenue on Virgin routes.

 

[pitdiver]

Perhaps c2c runs as well as it does because some of the management team came from Silverlink or the fact as someone has already pointed out the franchise is a relatively simple one to operate. So much so a man and his dog could run it

 

[Failed Unit]

Perhaps c2c runs as well as it does because some of the management team came from Silverlink or the fact as someone has already pointed out the franchise is a relatively simple one to operate. So much so a man and his dog could run it

BR never covered themselves in glory. But i am sure many would then point at underinvestment - network rail has spent a lot as well since privatisation.

 

[whhistle]

Stagecoach shouldn't win, as it would give them a monopoly in the south west.

That is a none argument though.
There are monopolies everywhere...

What if I wanted to travel from Coventry to Wolverton, I have only one choice.
Rugby to Tamworth - (logically) One choice.
Leicester to London, Derby to Market Harborough, Bristol to London, London to Sunderland... they all have only one logical choice.

This "competition" lark is null from where I see, unless you have at least two operators which operate at every station on the network which isn't going to happen.

 

[Zoe]

This "competition" lark is null from where I see, unless you have at least two operators which operate at every station on the network which isn't going to happen.

The competition is that the companies compete against each other for the franchises. If Stagecoach win they will have do so by competing against Arriva, First and National Express. I'm not sure that many people would even use SWT between Exeter and London though, considering it's much slower than the FGW route via Taunton. I expect quite a few people using SWT from Exeter are heading for Salisbury to change for South Coast destinations.

 

[David10]

This "competition" lark is null from where I see, unless you have at least two operators which operate at every station on the network which isn't going to happen.

Virgin had a monopoly on West Coast services north of Birmingham with the WC and XC franchises, as did Go-Ahead on London - Brighton services when it ran Thameslink and through its shareholding in Southern owner Govia.

Doubt Virgin would have bothered bidding for East Coast had it been likely to have been knocked back by the Competition Comission.

The only routes where FGW and SWT go head to head are London to Exeter and Bristol and Portsmouth - Southampton. In the first 2 cases the SWT services are significantly slower and Bristol is only a few services a day. And in the latter's case FGW operate express, SWT all stops.

Of all the Competion Commission inquiries over the years the only time they did intervene was when NatEx won ScotRail forcing them to sell their Citylink coach operation.