Freight Derailment at Whitacre Junction Coleshill and Nuneaton (12/09)

[318266]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O38154/2018/09/13/advanced - is the rescue train from Toton arriving at 1945

 

[E_Reeves]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O38154/2018/09/13/advanced - is the rescue train from Toton arriving at 1945

Doesn't look like it's going to run

 

[Aictos]

I dunno, you might end up spending half your time stood waiting a crew at Leicester occupying platforms that are sorely needed as it is. It's easy enough to do something when you've weeks notice, less so when there's only hours. The Liverpools are a different kettle of fish to the Birminghams anyway, passing through Nottingham where they often split.

Two words Emergency Timetable say they can, it just means running services at different times just difficult but not impossible.

 

[duncanp]

On the National Rail disruptions page it lists various arrangements for ticket acceptance until the line is cleared, one of which is "...London Underground by any reasonable route...."

Just wondering why anyone would use the London Underground as a diversionary route when the line between Birmingham New Street and Nuneaton is blocked.

 

[nbdm]

On the National Rail disruptions page it lists various arrangements for ticket acceptance until the line is cleared, one of which is "...London Underground by any reasonable route...."

Just wondering why anyone would use the London Underground as a diversionary route when the line between Birmingham New Street and Nuneaton is blocked.

I can only assume for those coming from Cambridge/Stansted, it would be quicker to go via London than on the already slow direct train which is now both delayed and even slower due to the line being blocked and taking the diversion.

 

[duncanp]

Good point, I hadn't thought of that.

Train from Stansted to Tottenham Hale, tube from Tottenham Hale to Euston, and Virgin Trains from Euston to New Street would be the best way of getting from Stansted to Birmingham.

 

[Bald Rick]

The points under the train have been causing trouble all summer due to heat, thats all im saying.

Perhaps they have. That doesn’t explain why the point of derailment is clearly some distance in rear of those points though.

 

[westcoaster]

Perhaps they have. That doesn’t explain why the point of derailment is clearly some distance in rear of those points though.

Im guessing the way some wagons derailed is due to forces, causing a snaking affect thoughout the adjoining wagons.

 

[Mugby]

If the train was travelling to Felixtowe, would the containers be empty?

If they were loaded, presumably the contents would have to be checked for damages before they could proceed after clear up?

 

[FOCTOC]

Perhaps they have. That doesn’t explain why the point of derailment is clearly some distance in rear of those points though.

No 'perhaps' about it - im telling you as someone who has been to Hams Hall nearly 5 times a week, every week all summer that those points have been acting up for months. At 15mph, any wagons derailing in advance of those on the recption roads could easily cause lock buffering and subsequent derailing. Its not PECO track and Hornby wagons, theres immense forces at play.

 

[GB]

If the train was travelling to Felixtowe, would the containers be empty?

If they were loaded, presumably the contents would have to be checked for damages before they could proceed after clear up?

They could have been empty, but this train is usually heavily loaded with scrap metal for export. Any loaded container involved would need to be checked for load shift before being railed again.

 

[plarailfan]

If the train was travelling to Felixtowe, would the containers be empty?

If they were loaded, presumably the contents would have to be checked for damages before they could proceed after clear up?

Many of the containers would be loaded with stuff for export possibly chemicals, or steel products, for example.
In the past, I've been involved with containers that were in involved in road accidents, where HGV and LGV articulated trucks had tipped over at roundabouts and the load inside the container often moves and ends up piled in a heap at one side, causing uneven weight distribution, and so, where this has happened, the container has to be taken to a facility that has fork trucks and lifting equipment, where the load can be removed and reloaded into a container, for delivery to the customer.

 

[TheBigD]

The Birmingham-Stansted services are only running east of Nuneaton today and are not diverted. Instead, there is a separate hourly diverted Leicester-Birmingham via Tamworth, approx xx25 from Leicester and xx12 from Birmingham. Hopefully it will be far more punctual than yesterday though the connections at Leicester aren't great, 40 minutes westbound and 45 eastbound.

221144 is allocated to the 0712, & 1112 ex Birmingham and the 0923 & 1327 return

 

[Bald Rick]

No 'perhaps' about it - im telling you as someone who has been to Hams Hall nearly 5 times a week, every week all summer that those points have been acting up for months. At 15mph, any wagons derailing in advance of those on the recption roads could easily cause lock buffering and subsequent derailing. Its not PECO track and Hornby wagons, theres immense forces at play.

Apologies, I wasn’t doubting you; I was just clarifying that the points concerned would not have been the point of the derailment.

 

[whhistle]

Nice to see an hourly Leicester - Nuneaton service in place. I wonder if it's the same units going back and forth?

Unit. Not plural. Yes it is, this morning it was a two carriage unit.

No.
It was formed of two units.
105 rings a bell and 398.

Today, they've swapped round the services, so there's a Nuneaton - Stansted hourly (and return), and a Birmingham - Leicester hourly (and return).
Stansted stops at local stations, which will not matter as it usually has 10 mins at Leicester anyway.

 

[Aictos]

The Birmingham-Stansted services are only running east of Nuneaton today and are not diverted. Instead, there is a separate hourly diverted Leicester-Birmingham via Tamworth, approx xx25 from Leicester and xx12 from Birmingham. Hopefully it will be far more punctual than yesterday though the connections at Leicester aren't great, 40 minutes westbound and 45 eastbound.

221144 is allocated to the 0712, & 1112 ex Birmingham and the 0923 & 1327 return

Two points here:

1. It's nice to see a Class 221 on a Class 170 working which makes a nice change!

2. It's good that someone has actually taken onboard the idea I mentioned before and split the service to provide a more reliable service although with a minor correction In that they're running Birmingham to Leicester via Tamworth and Nuneaton to Stansted Airport where my idea was they simply split the service at Leicester with the Leicester to Birmingham service going via Castle Donnington.

 

[The_Train]

I'm not one for claiming to be in the know but I've heard a little rumour that this may have been caused by fractures in the rail either side of the weld.

Only something I've heard and certainly not something I can prove to be factual but a feasible reason maybe? Either way I'm sure we will all get to read the true details in good time once the relevant investigation has been completed.

 

[The Planner]

Back open 0500 Monday I have heard.

 

[nat67]

And it’s also causing the 153 on the Nuneaton route to almost burst at the seams. Seems passengers for Birmingham and stations east of Nuneaton are being told to change at Coventry.

18 people wedged into No.1 end on a 153 vestibule may be the new record.

Let’s hope those in NR/XC use their brains and tell XC passengers to get on the replacement coaches rather than send them via Coventry sharpish.

Or in my case jump on my 1550 VT service to Euston and go across to either St Pancras or King's Cross.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Back open 0500 Monday I have heard.

Let’s hope so. I hope CrossCountry put the units in the right places for a normal Monday.

 

[Qwerty133]

Totally appalling that senior conductors weren't pulled off the normally operating Nottingham services in order to provide the full reduced service (several of which were cancelled due to a shortage of crew today).

 

[LowLevel]

Totally appalling that senior conductors weren't pulled off the normally operating Nottingham services in order to provide the full reduced service (several of which were cancelled due to a shortage of crew today).

Its not as easy as that. You can't just click your fingers and tell a person that suddenly their hours of attendance are changing and people using the undisrupted service have the same right to rely upon it.

It's also complicated by the fact that only Leicester '170' crews are qualified on the route via Loughborough (as well as some 'Voyager crews' which have been utilised where stock and staff are available) so there's a limited pool of staff available to crew these trains.

Cambridge staff used to sign Peterborough - Grantham - Nottingham - Leicester but that route knowledge was removed 5 years ago.

With major disruption at relatively short notice you're never going to be able to get things totally right as much will be based on guesswork and bodging.

 

[TheBigD]

Lowlevel...

Only Cambridge conductors used to sign the Leicester-Nottingham bit, Cambridge drivers lost that part of the route back in Central Trains days...

 

[Skymonster]

It's about time the railway got rid of all this 'signing the route' nonsense. A HGV driver can be sent anywhere in the country without needing to 'know' the route. Likewise there's no legal requirement for a bus driver to earn a route other than to avoid the commercial embarrassment of going the wrong way or getting lost with passengers on board. Airline pilots can be rostered for any route, with the only requirement ahead of flying being to study the airways routings and approach plates (with a few exceptions for 'challenging' airports in performance terms). The railway needs to stop being so precision about this stuff and put the passengers first.

 

[LowLevel]

Lowlevel...

Only Cambridge conductors used to sign the Leicester-Nottingham bit, Cambridge drivers lost that part of the route back in Central Trains days...

Did they used to get route conducted by someone? I remember dealing with a few Grantham diversions then I remember a guard I knew well being sent on a road review on day X knowing full well they were having it deleted from their route card on day Y and that was that.

It's been years since I've had much to do with Cambridge crews except in passing or the odd social occasion.

It was quite impressive how well Central Trains was doing when they smashed it to bits. A plentiful supply of units, flexible crews across the country and look where we've ended up now. Gathering the resources to break it up gave a short glimmer of what could have been throughout the rest of the franchise.

 

[AndrewE]

It's about time the railway got rid of all this 'signing the route' nonsense. A HGV driver can be sent anywhere in the country without needing to 'know' the route. Likewise there's no legal requirement for a bus driver to earn a route other than to avoid the commercial embarrassment of going the wrong way or getting lost with passengers on board. Airline pilots can be rostered for any route, with the only requirement ahead of flying being to study the airways routings and approach plates (with a few exceptions for 'challenging' airports in performance terms). The railway needs to stop being so precision about this stuff and put the passengers first.

Have you thought about the relative accident rates between trains and HGV (or even buses?)

 

[birchesgreen]

It's about time the railway got rid of all this 'signing the route' nonsense. A HGV driver can be sent anywhere in the country without needing to 'know' the route. Likewise there's no legal requirement for a bus driver to earn a route other than to avoid the commercial embarrassment of going the wrong way or getting lost with passengers on board. Airline pilots can be rostered for any route, with the only requirement ahead of flying being to study the airways routings and approach plates (with a few exceptions for 'challenging' airports in performance terms). The railway needs to stop being so precision about this stuff and put the passengers first.

Don't you think there is a bit of a difference between a Dennis Dart pootting along looking for the right route and several hundred tons of steel heading along a track looking for the next signal?

 

[tsr]

Don't you think there is a bit of a difference between a Dennis Dart pootting along looking for the right route and several hundred tons of steel heading along a track looking for the next signal?

Or, to put it differently, buses are driven on what's in the line of sight, and trains aren't (and it's even trickier for guards, who have to be able to know their location even if completely "blind" to it, without any cab-based warnings to prevent disorientation).

A bus driver should be prepared to go whichever way is necessary when they see the signs at a junction or operational restriction. A train will get to a junction and the driver must already know where they are (in fog, snow or darkness if needed), where they are allowed to go, at what speed and what the signal should say, without losing any significant time.

 

[Mugby]

It's about time TOCs stopped axing route knowledge retention just to save a bit of money!

 

[Dieseldriver]

Or, to put it differently, buses are driven on what's in the line of sight, and trains aren't (and it's even trickier for guards, who have to be able to know their location even if completely "blind" to it, without any cab-based warnings to prevent disorientation).

A bus driver should be prepared to go whichever way is necessary when they see the signs at a junction or operational restriction. A train will get to a junction and the driver must already know where they are (in fog, snow or darkness if needed), where they are allowed to go, at what speed and what the signal should say, without losing any significant time.

Sorry but the reason Guards don't have in cab indications to prevent disorientation is because they don't need it. I know there is a 'drive' at the moment to demonstrate a Guards worth but hamming the job up or blatantly lieing about it doesn't help. Guards do not need anywhere near the level of route knowledge that Drivers do, largely down to the fact that a Drivers role literally relies on and revolves around the route knowledge.