Fuel price Motorway protests

[Lost property]

No surprise in some respects, and whether this spreads is possibly the key point here, but, the fact they have started should, but won't, be a wake up call to this avaricious and indifferent Gov't that fuel tax is but one of the many issues exacerbating the deepening cost of living crisis.

Not unrelated therefore, but, with the cost of diesel being so high, how much of an impact will this have on heritage line operators already hit by coal costs ?

Fuel protests: Arrests for slow driving during motorway delays

Protesters who want a fuel duty cut drove slowly on major roads across the country.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[yorkie]

Drivers causing other drivers to be delayed. Hmm; sounds like they are a bit dim to me.

I will continue to cycle or use public transport for my journeys. Very rarely I will accept a lift, if there is no viable public transport option.

Even with fuel increases, arguably the cost of motoring is in relative terms quite low.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

To be fair, the Blair-era fuel protests forced changes in policy... and all that was when fuel was well below £1 a litre.

 

[DarloRich]

isn't there a law against this sort of thing or does that only apply to dirty students who glue themselves to things rather than decent honest, salt of the earth working people?

 

[TheEdge]

isn't there a law against this sort of thing or does that only apply to dirty students who glue themselves to things rather than decent honest, salt of the earth working people?

No, der Fuhrer is already suggesting "people's day-to-day lives should not be disrupted", can't have the plebs protesting.

 

[DarloRich]

No, der Fuhrer is already suggesting "people's day-to-day lives should not be disrupted", can't have the plebs protesting.

I hope they didn't blow thier horns to protest. 10 years in chokey for that these days.

 

[brad465]

There were reports in some tabloid sites this weekend about it, but generally this was low profile until this morning when the protests started. As such it's possible that now it's gained more publicity the protests will gain strength.

If I was going to cut something out of fuel costs it wouldn't be duty, but VAT, if those saying VAT is based on all other fuel cost including duty, thus being a tax of a tax, are correct.

 

[TheEdge]

I will continue to cycle or use public transport for my journeys.

I'm sure you'll complain as those ticket prices go up. Or as disruption starts happening because the drivers of that public transport struggle to get to work or change their job as they can't afford to get to work, given they tend to attend work outside of the hours public transport works.

Fuel prices affects near enough everything you use, buy or rely on, regardless of if you have a car or not. To think otherwise is incredibly blinkered and quite naïve.

 

[birchesgreen]

Funny how the comments in the Daily Mail article seem markedly more supportive than when its a XR or Insulate Britain blockage.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If I was going to cut something out of fuel costs it wouldn't be duty, but VAT, if those saying VAT is based on all other fuel cost including duty, thus being a tax of a tax, are correct.

Indeed. Fuel duty on petrol/diesel is currently 53.9 pence per litre. If the fuel cost is, say, 106.0 pence per litre, that'll be a total of 159.9 pence per litre, before VAT.

Adding the 20% VAT (= 31.98 pence) on top brings the price at the pumps to c. 191.9 pence per litre.

 

[GB]

Fuel prices affects near enough everything you use, buy or rely on, regardless of if you have a car or not. To think otherwise is incredibly blinkered and quite naïve.

True. It's funny how some non drivers forget how their public transportation works or how things get delivered to supermarkets/shops/homes.

 

[Lost property]

They are more extensive it seems....that said, it won't affect the M60 because you wouldn't notice the difference ...

Go-slow petrol price protest held on M54 motorway

Tailbacks of 10 miles are reported as motorists show their anger at rising prices at the pumps.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Drogba11CFC]

I'm wondering if the hike in fuel prices is yet another government nudge.

 

[Gloster]

And how many of them are deliberately protesting and how many are just caught up in the protest? A newspaper or TV programme reports, “A queue a mile long of drivers protesting about fuel prices”, could be four cars driving along in protest with hundreds stuck behind who just want to get on with their journey (and with prices like this don’t like wasting fuel). But they can include the bit of someone complaining about prices in the middle of a moan about inconsiderate protestors, the rest of which is cut.

I'm wondering if the hike in fuel prices is yet another government nudge.

Do you really think the government is that organised?

 

[RailWonderer]

Why do these anti-capitalists protest when they could just go back to work and earn the money to pay for petrol? There is not much the govt can do, besides start importing Russian oil and gas and apologise, which would upset others. It's the global market demand for oil that is up with Russian oil and gas boycotted. The government just has to be honest and say they cannot please everybody and should just ignore them (as they mostly do).

 

[brad465]

Why do these anti-capitalists protest when they could just go back to work and earn the money to pay for petrol? There is not much the govt can do, besides start importing Russian oil and gas and apologise, which would upset others. It's the global market demand for oil that is up with Russian oil and gas boycotted. The government just has to be honest and say they cannot please everybody and should just ignore them (as they mostly do).

Go look at the exchange rate for £ to $.

 

[45041]

Playing devil's advocate here, people were delayed also when rail staff were on strike and protesting and delaying others, as was my case, all trains cancelled on my route, I do not drive.

But these things highlight the fact, puts them on the news. It's what strikes and protests are all about. Cause disruption to get what they want, sod anybody else.

 

[roversfan2001]

Why do these anti-capitalists protest when they could just go back to work and earn the money to pay for petrol?

I assume this is a poor attempt at satire.

 

[Geezertronic]

Can anyone explain why the price of petrol is so high? This is a genuine question not a trick question

 

[brad465]

Can anyone explain why the price of petrol is so high? This is a genuine question not a trick question

I can think of four reasons:

1) High oil price
2) Poor exchange rate with the $, where oil is traded in dollars
3) High proportion of tax on forecourt prices
4) Profiteering

 

[Broucek]

I can think of four reasons:

1) High oil price
2) Poor exchange rate with the $, where oil is traded in dollars
3) High proportion of tax on forecourt prices
4) Profiteering

It's primarily 1-2 with a side-order of 3. In general, forecourt operators don't make huge profits and with prices this high people are being more careful about where they buy from which limits the ability to over-charge.

 

[GS250]

Can anyone explain why the price of petrol is so high? This is a genuine question not a trick question

Covid clawback. Motorists an easy target.

 

[Box]

Can anyone explain why the price of petrol is so high? This is a genuine question not a trick question

The crude oil price has increased by 55% in the last year
Oil is a global commodity sold in US$. The £ has lost 15% against the $ in the last year.

The price of petrol has therefore increased by two-thirds, from around £1.25 to £2.00, less the 5p fuel duty cut and associated VAT

 

[Geezertronic]

The crude oil price has increased by 55% in the last year
Oil is a global commodity sold in US$. The £ has lost 15% against the $ in the last year.

The price of petrol has therefore increased by two-thirds, from around £1.25 to £2.00, less the 5p fuel duty cut and associated VAT

The price of crude oil has not yet reached the peaks of 2008, 2010 or 2014, but I get what you are saying about the exchange rate of the US$ against the £ however:

(Note: please check my working out and correct if required)

In April 2011 when crude oil was $148.11 and the exchange rate was US$1 = £0.6207 (using 01/04/2011 figure), a barrel of crude would have cost £91.93, petrol was 132.81p and diesel was 139.46p

In June 2022 when crude oil was $109.78 and the exchange rate was US$1 = £0.801 (using 01/06/2022 figure), a barrel of crude would have cost £87.93, petrol was 177.88p and diesel was 185.01p

Reference sites:

Crude Oil Prices - 70 Year Historical Chart

Interactive charts of West Texas Intermediate (WTI or NYMEX) crude oil prices per barrel back to 1946. The price of oil shown is adjusted for inflation using the headline CPI and is shown by default on a logarithmic scale. The current month is updated on an hourly basis with today's latest value.

www.macrotrends.net

USD GBP Historical Exchange Rate

USD GBP Historical Exchange Rate

www.currency-converter.org.uk

UK pump prices over time

This chart tracks the changes in petrol and diesel prices over time (weekly on a Monday, rolling ten year period) and is based on BEIS data published each Tuesd

www.racfoundation.org

Unless I have screwed up the maths, the increased fuel prices are not as a direct result of the increase in crude prices going on previous figures?

 

[Box]

The price of crude oil has not yet reached the peaks of 2008, 2010 or 2014, but I get what you are saying about the exchange rate of the US$ against the £ however:

(Note: please check my working out and correct if required)

In April 2011 when crude oil was $148.11 and the exchange rate was US$1 = £0.6207 (using 01/04/2011 figure), a barrel of crude would have cost £91.93, petrol was 132.81p and diesel was 139.46p

In June 2022 when crude oil was $109.78 and the exchange rate was US$1 = £0.801 (using 01/06/2022 figure), a barrel of crude would have cost £87.93, petrol was 177.88p and diesel was 185.01p

Reference sites:

Crude Oil Prices - 70 Year Historical Chart

Interactive charts of West Texas Intermediate (WTI or NYMEX) crude oil prices per barrel back to 1946. The price of oil shown is adjusted for inflation using the headline CPI and is shown by default on a logarithmic scale. The current month is updated on an hourly basis with today's latest value.

www.macrotrends.net

USD GBP Historical Exchange Rate

USD GBP Historical Exchange Rate

www.currency-converter.org.uk

UK pump prices over time

This chart tracks the changes in petrol and diesel prices over time (weekly on a Monday, rolling ten year period) and is based on BEIS data published each Tuesd

www.racfoundation.org

Unless I have screwed up the maths, the increased fuel prices are not as a direct result of the increase in crude prices going on previous figures?

Interesting, my analysis was more short term - $73 barrel a year ago, $113 now, the petrol price change correlates with that. Do you have any ideas what has caused the difference from 10 years ago?

 

[Class172]

isn't there a law against this sort of thing or does that only apply to dirty students who glue themselves to things rather than decent honest, salt of the earth working people?

Whilst I don’t think there’s a law that explicitly covers driving slowly/stopping on a motorway (minimum speed limits are very rare), I believe the police will tend to class is as dangerous driving or driving without due care orattention, and act accordingly.

 

[cactustwirly]

Why do these anti-capitalists protest when they could just go back to work and earn the money to pay for petrol? There is not much the govt can do, besides start importing Russian oil and gas and apologise, which would upset others. It's the global market demand for oil that is up with Russian oil and gas boycotted. The government just has to be honest and say they cannot please everybody and should just ignore them (as they mostly do).

The government could cut VAT on fuel, seeing as revenue has increased due to the higher price.

 

[al78]

Covid clawback. Motorists an easy target.

Nothing to do with that. The price of crude oil has increased, the Ukraine war has caused oil price rises due to disruption to supply, and the rebound in demand for oil now people are getting back to normal after the pandemic has caused a surge in demand, which also increases prices. You'll find that the UK is not alone in experiencing high inflation. If anything, the govt tried the token gesture of reducing fuel duty, which did three fifths of bugger all because it wasn't passed on by retailers.

Why do these anti-capitalists protest when they could just go back to work and earn the money to pay for petrol? There is not much the govt can do, besides start importing Russian oil and gas and apologise, which would upset others. It's the global market demand for oil that is up with Russian oil and gas boycotted. The government just has to be honest and say they cannot please everybody and should just ignore them (as they mostly do).

What has protesting against soaring fuel prices got to do with anti-capitalism?

Whilst I don’t think there’s a law that explicitly covers driving slowly/stopping on a motorway (minimum speed limits are very rare), I believe the police will tend to class is as dangerous driving or driving without due care orattention, and act accordingly.

It might come under causing an obstruction, but I'm not sure, maybe that only applies to vehicles parked in a place which blocks traffic flow. It could be argued that because the protestors are not stopping traffic, they are not obstructing it.

The government could cut VAT on fuel, seeing as revenue has increased due to the higher price.

The expense bourne by govt has also increased first from the pandemic furloughing, secondly from the reduction in fuel duty during the pandemic because motor travel was suppressed, and thirdly they put forward a proposal they were going to hand out £300 or £400 to people to assist with the soaring cost of living (that may have been silently shelved for all I know).

 

[Starmill]

I'm sure you'll complain as those ticket prices go up. Or as disruption starts happening because the drivers of that public transport struggle to get to work or change their job as they can't afford to get to work, given they tend to attend work outside of the hours public transport works.

Fuel prices affects near enough everything you use, buy or rely on, regardless of if you have a car or not. To think otherwise is incredibly blinkered and quite naïve.

I don't think that it's at all true to imply that @yorkie was saying that fuel prices are irrelevant. They were pointing out that there are small mitigations open to almost everyone to reduce fuel costs, including car sharing for longer journeys and walking or cycling for shorter journeys.

Most regular public transport users will already be paying more than the variable cost elements of driving for their journey anyway.

Obviously fuel costs feed through to other things in life as you say, because so many goods rely on it to be delivered. I don't think @yorkie was saying it doesn't. However, fossil-derived fuels have likely been underpriced for years, encouraging an unsustainable dependency on them. Higher prices will reduce this dependency. I expect those higher prices to continue feeding through for some months yet, and that of course will eventually have long term structural effects on the economy.

I support people's right to protest. They can protest if they like. But also it won't reduce prices and nobody can reasonably expect for it to do so.

If the government ends the 5p / litre relief next year that will result in another noticeable jump up. I predict some further rises on top of that. Prices are likely to be much higher than for the past decade. Perhaps we should all just get used to it.

 

[Busaholic]

Reverting to the subject of the protests themselves, there were BBC news clips earlier today showing a stinger being deployed by West Yorkshire Police at Ferrybridge Services to 'deter' motorists thinking of joining any protest, but also, apparently, other drivers who were just going about their lawful business. I've got to say I found this outrageous but, given the identity of the police force, not surprising. Perhaps it's my incompetence that prevents me finding it again, and in the fact that it's not my local area