"Full and standing"

[trainophile]

The display board at Crewe early this afternoon was showing that the imminent Chester service was "reported as full and standing". This was also announced as the train arrived.

I just wondered what the point of this advance information is, given that presumably those intending to board it have little alternative option. Surely it just adds to their stress levels, and makes them psych themselves up for a scrum.

If they added something like "you are permitted to wait for the next service, which is in ** mins/hours, or travel to Chester via Liverpool Moorfields" there would be some point.

I felt stressed on their behalf, and I wasn't even waiting for that service!

 

[elementalpat]

I also wonder how the 'full and standing' status is reported. Does the guard press a button and it goes to the TOC's HQ?

 

[6Gman]

Assuming this was for an xx.49 Voyager, presumably passengers had the option of waiting for the xx.23 shuttle (Crewe - Chester).

Rather odder was the announcement I saw some months ago advising that the last Birmingham-Sciotland of the day was "reported F&S". Were passengers expected to wait for the Sleeper?

 

[tsr]

If that wording was displayed on the screens any Southern station within a 20-mile radius of the Greater London area at 8am on a weekday morning, I can guarantee that almost every listing of every train would feature it!

"Formed of 8 coaches" is a nightmare message in and of itself, when applied to some trains, at least...

 

[Monty]

I also wonder how the 'full and standing' status is reported. Does the guard press a button and it goes to the TOC's HQ?

The guard, driver or station staff usually reports a service full and standing to the TOC's control centre/customer service centre etc by means of a telephone.

The way I see it is, it's giving the passenger some form of advance warning informing them that the next service into that platform is full and they may not be able to board that train. No point telling them they can wait and get on the next service as no one can guarantee that next train isn't suffering from the same problem. Not an ideal situation but better than no warning at all and seeing a train turning up bursting at the seems. Doesn't usually stop passengers from trying to cram themselves on though.

 

[MCR247]

I saw this a Crewe about a delayed Edinburgh/Glasgow - (Euston) service in the summer

 

[Matt Taylor]

I also wonder how the 'full and standing' status is reported. Does the guard press a button and it goes to the TOC's HQ?

A quick call from the guard to control, had to do it twice on Monday for people coming back from Bestival on the IoW.

 

[sheff1]

The way I see it is, it's giving the passenger some form of advance warning informing them that the next service into that platform is full and they may not be able to board that train. No point telling them they can wait and get on the next service as no one can guarantee that next train isn't suffering from the same problem. Not an ideal situation but better than no warning at all and seeing a train turning up bursting at the seems. Doesn't usually stop passengering from trying to cram themselves on though.

Well of course it won't if you have an Advance ticket for that train and the walk on cost is a large multiple of the Advance fare ! Due to over the top hype about booking in advance from some TOCs, many people also believe that a walk on fare is only valid on the train they selected when booking and they, too, will be afraid of being charged again if they can't get on.

Telling people they can use their ticket on later train, without penalty, sounds like a good idea to me. Clearly some people will always try and cram on regardless, but others won't if they are confident they will not get a 'fine' for catching a different train.

 

[Starmill]

If that wording was displayed on the screens any Southern station within a 20-mile radius of the Greater London area at 8am on a weekday morning, I can guarantee that almost every listing of every train would feature it!

"Formed of 8 coaches" is a nightmare message in and of itself, when applied to some trains, at least...

I'm sorry, you think "Formed of 8 coaches" is a BAD THING!?! Well, I'd like to inform you that, up north, we guess how many coaches our trains have, as it is never quoted. Except in the case of "11 car Pendolino services" as read out by live station announcers only.

It doesn't particularly matter though, because you can be pretty damn sure it will be "formed of" two coaches.

 

[Lewisham2221]

It doesn't particularly matter though, because you can be pretty damn sure it will be "formed of" two coaches.

I'm sorry, you get 2 coaches?! That's just greedy, some of us have to make do with 1 lol.

 

[transmanche]

I'm sorry, you think "Formed of 8 coaches" is a BAD THING!?!

If you're expecting a 12-car train and it's announced that today it's actually "Formed of 8 coaches"; then at some stations, the collective sign/groan must be audible for miles!

 

[Tomonthetrain]

I'm sorry, you get 2 coaches?! That's just greedy, some of us have to make do with 1 lol.

Or even half (class 139s!!)

 

[ushawk]

If you're expecting a 12-car train and it's announced that today it's actually "Formed of 8 coaches"; then at some stations, the collective sign/groan must be audible for miles!

This is very much the case in London and SE.

Happens quite a lot down on the Coast with the Brighton - Ashford 2-car 171s, id say over 50% of the time these are F+S, usually always in the peaks, Saturdays and Sundays too.

 

[tsr]

If you're expecting a 12-car train and it's announced that today it's actually "Formed of 8 coaches"; then at some stations, the collective sign/groan must be audible for miles!

Quite! Even one coach missing from a formation of three coupled 377 units - perhaps due to a fault - can make a huge difference, for example.

 

[Rich McLean]

Or during times of disruption "This train will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 12", it's happened on London Midlands a few times.

 

[12CSVT]

Or during times of disruption "This coach will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 12", it's happened on London Midlands a few times.

And FCC.

 

[DazDude]

I've seen this a few times at Crewe, and half the time when reported 'full and standing' it's usually been the complete opposite.

 

[BestWestern]

FGW like to display "Please note that this train is formed of X coaches" on the CIS screens, routinely for all Sprinter services. I've never really understood why it is emphasised with such an air of importance.

The full and standing announcement is useful at locations on busy corridors where there will be another train in 10 minutes, and it's also helpful if you're traveling with a bike or somesuch for instance. Gives you the option of locking it up in time to try and board the service yourself, rather than simply being turned away.

 

[Starmill]

I'm sorry, you get 2 coaches?! That's just greedy, some of us have to make do with 1 lol.

Hahaha! A double 153! The picture of irony.

 

[David]

I'm sorry, you think "Formed of 8 coaches" is a BAD THING!?! Well, I'd like to inform you that, up north, we guess how many coaches our trains have, as it is never quoted. Except in the case of "11 car Pendolino services" as read out by live station announcers only.

It doesn't particularly matter though, because you can be pretty damn sure it will be "formed of" two coaches.

Across here in Scunthorpe, the only time we get the equivalent of 2 coaches on local services is when a 3 car 144 turns up!

 

[WatcherZero]

Ive been at Salford Crescent when a service is announced as 'full and standing, please wait for the next one in five minutes' only the next one was even fuller!

 

[TheJRB]

Happens quite a lot down on the Coast with the Brighton - Ashford 2-car 171s, id say over 50% of the time these are F+S, usually always in the peaks, Saturdays and Sundays too.

I'm glad somebody else sees this! I don't use the service all that often but I can certainly say that the 171/7s should be extended to three or four cars. The issue is more of the usage of stock rather than the demand between Ashford and Hastings.

In my experience of a Saturday morning, trains leave Ashford with about half the seats filled. It stays around that busy until Hastings where everybody starts piling on because it's the only fast service on the East Coastway. If anything they'd be better off terminating the Ashford service at Hastings and starting a fast Electrostar service to Brighton from there. That would however take away a lot of the usage and advantage that the Marshlink has had since extension of services through to Brighton.

 

[LexyBoy]

"Formed of 16 coaches" announced a while ago at St Albans! (After the preceeding 4 trains were announced as cancelled at their due departure time, without any explanation).

 

[trainophile]

I've seen this a few times at Crewe, and half the time when reported 'full and standing' it's usually been the complete opposite.

I was in the Platform 5 waiting room when it came in on 11, and I could just see it as it passed the unobstructed area before the building. I must say I couldn't discern anyone standing, although obviously I didn't have the best view. It was the 1449 - wonder if anyone who posts on here was on it and can report the actuality.

Of course if you don't have a valid ticket perhaps full & standing trains would be a safe bet, as the conductor is unlikely to be able to do a ticket check! hock:

 

[talltim]

EMT have recently added the train length to the automated announcements for the Liverpool-Norwich trains at Sheffield station. So far it has been wrong every time.

 

[DavidBrown]

I've only seen the 'Full and Standing' message used in FGW land once back in the summer....

...at Paignton. Where the train terminates and everybody gets off. :roll:

 

[AlterEgo]

Rather odder was the announcement I saw some months ago advising that the last Birmingham-Sciotland of the day was "reported F&S". Were passengers expected to wait for the Sleeper?

There's no sleeper service to or from Birmingham.

 

[Drsatan]

I've only seen the 'Full and Standing' message used in FGW land once back in the summer....

...at Paignton. Where the train terminates and everybody gets off. :roll:

Likewise, a few years ago on a Sunday evening an HST arriving at Bath from Paddington was advertised as 'Full and Standing", but when it arrived it was anything but! I'm assuming the train was "full and standing" leaving Paddington, but had emptied out by the time it reached Swindon, and the guard hadn't correspondingly updated control.

 

[The North Briton]

I see East Coast has started posting on it's website: "Services (sic) full and standing from...." Also "Formed of eight coaches instead of nine. Reservations for coach X will be found in coach Y". Which is actually helpful in reducing the chaos that ensues when reservations are placed in a different vehicle.

 

[pemma]

It doesn't particularly matter though, because you can be pretty damn sure it will be "formed of" two coaches.

That's just greedy, some of us have to make do with 1 lol.

If it's a 2 car Pacer with 2+2 seating then it's only got 25% more seats than a 1 car 153, despite having double the number of carriages.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

EMT have recently added the train length to the automated announcements for the Liverpool-Norwich trains at Sheffield station. So far it has been wrong every time.

I've noticed the train doors on 4 car formations leaving Liverpool now say carriage D and carriage C on the front two carriages instead of having carriage A twice and carriage B twice, as was once the case.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ive been at Salford Crescent when a service is announced as 'full and standing, please wait for the next one in five minutes' only the next one was even fuller!

And what about if you had an Advance ticket?

Even if it was a Northern service there could be some people with Advance tickets who were picking up a regional/intercity service at Piccadilly.