Further Restrictions Announced by Johnson (22/09)

[yorksrob]

Kier Starmer does seem to have slightly better leadership skills than BJ, however what puts me off Labour is the idiots Starmer has behind him - namely Lisa Nandy & Angela Rayner.

CJ

They just seem to be more of the same in terms of lockdown. You can see it with their mayors.

 

[Huntergreed]

Kier Starmer does seem to have slightly better leadership skills than BJ, however what puts me off Labour is the idiots Starmer has behind him - namely Lisa Nandy & Angela Rayner.

CJ

He’s a better leader, but he’s very pro-restrictions (arguably more than Johnson), so I wouldn’t vote for him as it would just be more of the same.

 

[takno]

He’s a better leader, but he’s very pro-restrictions (arguably more than Johnson), so I wouldn’t vote for him as it would just be more of the same.

There's been quite a lot of movement on that over the last few days. They started off with an attitude of accepting the restrictions but pinning their necessity on the government. They've now started to go in quite hard on the lack of oversight, stupidity of the 10pm curfew and treatment of students. Even Richard Leonard appears to have awoken from his slumber to join in

 

[Bantamzen]

They just seem to be more of the same in terms of lockdown. You can see it with their mayors.

Unfortunately both parties are still acting under the belief that we can just stare down the virus through lockdowns, which really doesn't seem to be the case. Only when one party or the other comes to the conclusion that we cannot hope to eliminate the virus will we see lockdown strategies really challenged.

 

[yorksrob]

Unfortunately both parties are still acting under the belief that we can just stare down the virus through lockdowns, which really doesn't seem to be the case. Only when one party or the other comes to the conclusion that we cannot hope to eliminate the virus will we see lockdown strategies really challenged.

Indeed. If the current lot just stuck with the current national restrictions for the timebeing, it would be preferable, but I just don't trust any of them to do so.

 

[philosopher]

They just seem to be more of the same in terms of lockdown. You can see it with their mayors.

Sadiq Khan being very pro lockdown seems particularly odd to me. Given the well publicised negative impacts that the Covid-19 measures are having on London’s economy, London having a young population and lockdowns generally being harder on city than country dwellers (smaller homes and gardens, etc), I would have thought that would have made him at least somewhat wary of advocating tighter restrictions, but obviously not. He does seem to be more on the authoritarian side of the Libertarian - Authoritarian scale so I guess that explains it.

 

[AlisonM]

There was a story in my news feed from The Sunday Times iirc that said the Houses of Commons bars don’t have to shut at 10pm. Apologies it was behind a paywall so if anyone has access I’d be interested in the detail.

Summary of details:
Parliament’s bars will not be subject to the 10pm curfew.
Parliament’s bars will not have to gather customers’ details.
Facilities serving alcohol on the parliamentary estate are understood to be exempt from the earlier closing time on the basis that they fall under the description of “a workplace canteen”.
Workplace canteens may remain open where there is no practical alternative for staff at that workplace to obtain food.
Bar staff and customers in the Palace of Westminster will not be required to follow stricter rules on face coverings introduced for other licensed premises.

 

[island]

I do not believe there is sense in introducing yet more restrictions as opposed to enforcing the ones we currently have.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Summary of details:
Parliament’s bars will not be subject to the 10pm curfew.
Parliament’s bars will not have to gather customers’ details.
Facilities serving alcohol on the parliamentary estate are understood to be exempt from the earlier closing time on the basis that they fall under the description of “a workplace canteen”.
Workplace canteens may remain open where there is no practical alternative for staff at that workplace to obtain food.
Bar staff and customers in the Palace of Westminster will not be required to follow stricter rules on face coverings introduced for other licensed premises.

Thanks

Wow they love setting an example don't they.

 

[DelayRepay]

Sounds like the plot of a porn film. So I've heard...

It isn't, but that gives me an idea. Surely Porn Star is an occupation, and making a porn film therefore constitutes work.

I will not comment on whether the wearing of masks is necessary and/or appropriate...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks

Wow they love setting an example don't they.

Bunch of hypocrites, the lot of them.

 

[Scrotnig]

here are no plans for a stay at home order. There wasn't a stay at home order in March, so why would they have one now?

The original emergency legislation stated 'no person so shall be outside the place where they live without reasonable excuse'. Word for word, that was the law.
Locally, police were stopping people and ordering them to go home if they weren't satisfied with their reasons for being outdoors.
I was not able to get in my car and go for a drive, or get on a train or bus and go for a trip somewhere.
I faced the possibility of fines or even arrest if I was found to be outdoors and the police were not happy with my reasons.
The phrase 'stay at home' was drummed into us endlessly at press conferences and in the media.
Whether you choose to call that a 'stay at home order' or not doesn't matter. I won't be complying with anything like the above again.

 

[DelayRepay]

I'll be helping my father in law with essential maintenance to his house. I'll bring a screwdriver.

I mentioned elsewhere that we had a retirement party planned which we had to cut back when the 'rule of six' came in, because we wanted to include eight people. There was a suggestion that the 'organiser' could hire two of as waiters and if we were paid and were the ones who poured the tea and passed the sandwiches around, we'd probably be legal.

The fact that normally rational, law abiding people are looking for 'loopholes' when new measures are announced shows how much public opinion has changed. The people I know who are now looking for 'loopholes' are the same people who happily went above and beyond the measures that were in place in April.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fact that normally rational, law abiding people are looking for 'loopholes' when new measures are announced shows how much public opinion has changed. The people I know who are now looking for 'loopholes' are the same people who happily went above and beyond the measures that were in place in April.

There is one reason for that and one alone - Dominic Cummings.

If he had been sacked in disgrace, high compliance would have continued.

 

[VauxhallandI]

The fact that normally rational, law abiding people are looking for 'loopholes' when new measures are announced shows how much public opinion has changed. The people I know who are now looking for 'loopholes' are the same people who happily went above and beyond the measures that were in place in April.

I'd put myself in that camp now.

 

[birchesgreen]

Locally, police were stopping people and ordering them to go home if they weren't satisfied with their reasons for being outdoors.

Harsh, i was out in my car at least twice a day and never had any trouble. Hardly ever see the police around here though.

 

[DelayRepay]

There is one reason for that and one alone - Dominic Cummings.

If he had been sacked in disgrace, high compliance would have continued.

I don't completely disagree, but I think there's also fatigue. I think there's also a growing body of opinion that given we are not seeing very high death rates, the measures are disproportionate.

Personally, I complied with the original 'lockdown' and went beyond. I didn't necessarily agree with it all, but we had little information about the virus, we saw the awful pictures from other countries and I think most people had to place their trust in the government. We're in a different place now, but we still seem to be subjected to blanket and sometimes quite random rules without any real explanation about why they're necessary.

But yes, Cummings didn't help at all, and neither do recent suggestions that it's ok to break the law so long as it's in a 'specific and measured way'.

 

[Darandio]

Bunch of hypocrites, the lot of them.

To be fair some of them have come out this morning and said it needs to be amended and should be done today, they realise how silly it's making them look.

 

[Yew]

There is one reason for that and one alone - Dominic Cummings.

If he had been sacked in disgrace, high compliance would have continued.

But then the government would be even more clueless than it is! Or perhaps Sunak would be the de-facto prime minister.

 

[adc82140]

The fact that normally rational, law abiding people are looking for 'loopholes' when new measures are announced shows how much public opinion has changed. The people I know who are now looking for 'loopholes' are the same people who happily went above and beyond the measures that were in place in April.

I've not been called "rational" for a while

In all seriousness though I agree. The extent of my law breaking up to now has consisted of possibly creeping up to 80 on the motorway. But I'm now exploiting loopholes so I can carry on seeing family as normal. My mum is on her own, so the social bubble thing applies. My in laws are a couple. We can use the informal childcare rule to see them (if challenged we were just on our way out leaving our son with them for an hour or so), or alternatively as I said before I'm helping my elderly father in law with some essential house maintenance (never mind the fact that his DIY skills far exceed mine). We are meeting a friend+ their family at a National Trust property next week. The total number of people would be 7. At least we're going, and wouldn't it be a coincidence if they were there too. I could go on. But back in April I was playing it by the book, and for good reason- to stop the health service being overwhelmed.

 

[yorksrob]

There is one reason for that and one alone - Dominic Cummings.

If he had been sacked in disgrace, high compliance would have continued.

I think more people have come to the conclusion that lockdowns are a futile endevour.

 

[Trackman]

Summary of details:
Parliament’s bars will not be subject to the 10pm curfew.
Parliament’s bars will not have to gather customers’ details.
Facilities serving alcohol on the parliamentary estate are understood to be exempt from the earlier closing time on the basis that they fall under the description of “a workplace canteen”.
Workplace canteens may remain open where there is no practical alternative for staff at that workplace to obtain food.
Bar staff and customers in the Palace of Westminster will not be required to follow stricter rules on face coverings introduced for other licensed premises.

U-Turn this morning, it's not going to happen.

 

[Wuffle]

There is one reason for that and one alone - Dominic Cummings.

If he had been sacked in disgrace, high compliance would have continued.

I realise he is a government advisor but it's funny that the actions of Stephen Kinnock and Ian Blackford amongst many others breaking restrictions are seldom if ever mentioned by people almost like there's a political bias

 

[Scrotnig]

I realise he is a government advisor but it's funny that the actions of Stephen Kinnock and Ian Blackford amongst many others breaking restrictions are seldom if ever mentioned by people almost like there's a political bias

Or Leicester's elected mayor (Labour), another who thought the rules were just for ordinary people:

Leicester mayor apologises for breaking lockdown rules

Leicester's Sir Peter Soulsby cites "an error of judgement" after visiting his partner twice.

www.bbc.co.uk

The mayor of Leicester has apologised for "an error of judgement" after it was revealed he broke lockdown rules twice by visiting his partner.
Sir Peter Soulsby admitted visiting Lesley Summerland and staying at her house overnight before government guidelines allowed it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I realise he is a government advisor but it's funny that the actions of Stephen Kinnock and Ian Blackford amongst many others breaking restrictions are seldom if ever mentioned by people almost like there's a political bias

Yes, a bias against those who are imposing the restrictions, and quite rightly so. Those who are making the laws need to comply to the absolute letter of them (as well as the intent).

Or Leicester's elected mayor (Labour), another who thought the rules were just for ordinary people:

Leicester mayor apologises for breaking lockdown rules

Leicester's Sir Peter Soulsby cites "an error of judgement" after visiting his partner twice.

www.bbc.co.uk

Certainly should have resigned in disgrace.

 

[Darandio]

I realise he is a government advisor but it's funny that the actions of Stephen Kinnock and Ian Blackford amongst many others breaking restrictions are seldom if ever mentioned by people almost like there's a political bias

Neither of those had their actions repeatedly defended by those highest in government.

 

[Howardh]

U-Turn this morning, it's not going to happen.

It's taken the papers to expose this, otherwise nothing would have happened.

 

[DB]

I see that Johnson now appears to be considering a ban on socialising in London. More lurchingfrom one knee-jerk reaction to another!

 

[LOL The Irony]

I realise he is a government advisor but it's funny that the actions of Stephen Kinnock and Ian Blackford amongst many others breaking restrictions are seldom if ever mentioned by people almost like there's a political bias

Or Leicester's elected mayor (Labour), another who thought the rules were just for ordinary people:

Like in the US where the speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi, went to get a haircut during a lockdown she called for whilst not wearing any PPE the day before the salons were supposed to reopen and the salon's CCTV got everything. When caught, she tried to blame it on the salon owner and claimed she was set up.

 

[Howardh]

If we have a further full lockdown (but the schools stay open) above and beyond a fortnight, what happens then if the numbers of cases still rises? Do we stay in lockdown for an eternity - into the new year, or do they finally twig that it might be the pupils passing it around and bringing the virus home? Think that's the reason they don't want uni students going home, otherwise why stop them?