Future of Virgin trains name

[northwichcat]

The transport company which is 90% Stagecoach/10% Virgin has been registered as Inter City Railways Limited. Could this company be used to get around the problem of Virgin wanting their name on Intercity services and some franchises not being 100% Intercity? For instance, for the Great Western franchise the Virgin name could be permitted to be used on IEP services, with Stagecoach branding being used on other services.

 

[BestWestern]

I sincerely hope that InterCity is not going to be allowed as a brand name. It is firmly associated with the concept of long distance trains in general and has a long history of familiarity in the UK, to allow a single franchisee to use it would be utter stupidity. I was under the impression that it remains 'owned' by the powers that be, hence when the initial Great Western franchise applied it to their coach sides it carried a trademark symbol.

 

[northwichcat]

I sincerely hope that InterCity is not going to be allowed as a brand name.

It's been established that the East Coast services will operate under the Virgin Trains name, with Stagecoach doing the day to day management of the franchise.

Intercity Railways Limited is not a name you'll see except in the legal details on the website and in the small print of any correspondence. A bit like London & Birmingham Railways Limited.

 

[berneyarms]

The East Coast franchise will be branded Virgin East Coast.

 

[ian959]

As far as I am aware, and I may be wrong, there is nothing to prevent a TOC branding its trains anyway it sees fit as long as it was not specifically barred by the franchise agreement.

Accordingly, it would in theory be possible to have two brands on the trains of the Great Western franchise if it were won by Inter City Railways Limited as you suggest.

 

[thenorthern]

Remember the legal name of Virgin Trains is West Coast Trains Limited.

Stagecoach I don't think have ever used their name on a franchise and they normally use a geographic identifier followed by "Trains" i.e. East Midlands Trains. As the Virgin brand name is widely recognised as a respected brand that is why the company will use the name Virgin Trains East Coast rather than East Coast Trains.

The next time the InterCity West Coast Franchise comes up though I wouldn't be surprised if the 90/10 split comes up again but we will have to wait and see.

 

[jopsuk]

the "legal name" of most franchises is different to the operating name. Eg. "London And South Eastern Railway Ltd." operates as Southeastern,

 

[LLivery]

Will West Coast be branded as Virgin Trains West Coast from May?

 

[thenorthern]

Will West Coast be branded as Virgin Trains West Coast from May?

It may be, who knows. I would thing all the trains will just have Virgin Trains #ArriveAwesome written on them for both East and West Coast although the Announcements may be like "Platform 6 for the 16:35 Virgin West Coast service....". We will have to wait and see though.

 

[Blamethrower]

Stagecoach certainly seem to have sewn up some of the most profitable franchises. Do they own EMT too? If so that 4 of the mainlines out of London (WCML, ECML, MML, SWML)

 

[JaJaWa]

It's Virgin Trains East Coast, not Virgin East Coast
(https://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/introducing-virgin-trains-east-coast). There's a (small!) picture of what the logo will look like in a train attached. It seems to be the current Virgin Trains logo - with EAST COAST underneath.

I actually suggested when Stagecoach won the East Midlands franchise that they should license the Virgin brand for the 'mainline' (Meridian) services. Perhaps they will if they win it again!

 

[SeanG]

I can see this getting confusing at Edinburgh Waverley with two Virgin operators.

And at Glasgow Central I suppose to a lesser extent.
On a side note, is there a franchise requirement to run the ECML Glasgow services? I can see Virgin crapping them as you could use their services to Euston instead

 

[Goldfish62]

Remember the legal name of Virgin Trains is West Coast Trains Limited.

Stagecoach I don't think have ever used their name on a franchise and they normally use a geographic identifier followed by "Trains" i.e. East Midlands Trains. As the Virgin brand name is widely recognised as a respected brand that is why the company will use the name Virgin Trains East Coast rather than East Coast Trains.

The next time the InterCity West Coast Franchise comes up though I wouldn't be surprised if the 90/10 split comes up again but we will have to wait and see.

In the early days of the SWT franchise trains and publicity were branded "Stagecoach SWT" and staff wore Stagecoach bus uniform.

 

[dk1]

I can see this getting confusing at Edinburgh Waverley with two Virgin operators.

And at Glasgow Central I suppose to a lesser extent.
On a side note, is there a franchise requirement to run the ECML Glasgow services? I can see Virgin crapping them as you could use their services to Euston instead

Why would it be confusing? You check the destination & calling points don't you?

 

[dosxuk]

I can see this getting confusing at Edinburgh Waverley with two Virgin operators.

Only as confusing as Birmingham, with Virgin going both north and south hock:

 

[dk1]

Only as confusing as Birmingham, with Virgin going both north and south hock:

Same at Edinburgh with EC going Inverness, Aberdeen Or South of the Border.

 

[Kettledrum]

I can see this getting confusing at Edinburgh Waverley with two Virgin operators.

Before franchising was introduced, there was only one operator - British Rail - at all stations, and the confusion you're suggesting might happen never arose.

 

[3141]

The next time the InterCity West Coast Franchise comes up though I wouldn't be surprised if the 90/10 split comes up again but we will have to wait and see.

The thought I'd had was that maybe Richard Branson won't put in a Virgin Trains (Virgin Group 51%, Stagecoach 49%) bid for the next West Coast franchise or anything else, but will in future licence the Virgin brand for suitable franchises (i.e. long-distance rather than commuter or local) in co-cooperation with any other bidder he regards as a suitable partner (i.e. not ?????.... ).

 

[Tony2215]

Branding them Virgin WC or Virgin EC is just stupid, they should just have all their trains branded 'Virgin Trains' and run as a whole. Passengers just want their Virgin Train, theyre not bothered about the WC or EC.

 

[Deerfold]

Branding them Virgin WC or Virgin EC is just stupid, they should just have all their trains branded 'Virgin Trains' and run as a whole. Passengers just want their Virgin Train, theyre not bothered about the WC or EC.

Why is it stupid? They're run by different companies with different levels of input from Stageoach and Virgin.

Do most passengers want their Virgin Trains more than they wnat their trains?

As a regular traveller on the line I'm interested in their plans and how good they'll be and less interested in the exact branding they use.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Branding them Virgin WC or Virgin EC is just stupid, they should just have all their trains branded 'Virgin Trains' and run as a whole.

It's possible that West Coast might make more of the "Virgin Pendolino service" and "Virgin Voyager service" branding, to add to "Virgin Trains East Coast service" - each of those has a slightly different service level and may be worth differentiating.

Neil

 

[RiverLune]

Would it be possible, for a Pendolino to run the following?

Euston-Glasgow-Edinburgh-Kings X?

 

[WillPS]

Would it be possible, for a Pendolino to run the following?

Euston-Glasgow-Edinburgh-Kings X?

I can guarantee for a whole host of reasons they will not be crossworking in that manner. It very rarely happened even in the Virgin XC days (when there was a lot more similarity in terms of stock and crossover).

 

[RiverLune]

Whilst I understand it's highly unlikely, the scope would be possible never the less?

 

[causton]

Whilst I understand it's highly unlikely, the scope would be possible never the less?

In the same way the scope is there to run a pacer on an intercity service between York and Newcastle*! It could happen...

...but there are a lot of reasons why it won't as things stand!

*assuming they're cleared for the route!

 

[ModernRailways]

Whilst I understand it's highly unlikely, the scope would be possible never the less?

Are Pendolino's cleared for the ECML? I'm aware of one test trip that occurred in 2013 or maybe 2012 in the middle of the night but that's been it as far as I'm aware.

 

[Starmill]

Why would it be confusing? You check the destination & calling points don't you?

EDINBRUGH -> LONDON TERMINALS route: VIRGIN TRNS ONLY. ????

 

[whhistle]

EDINBRUGH -> LONDON TERMINALS route: VIRGIN TRNS ONLY. ????

So you could go on either service then.

Why is it stupid? They're run by different companies with different levels of input from Stageoach and Virgin.

Do most passengers want their Virgin Trains more than they wnat their trains

You say that, but then what's the point in using the brand name?

I suspect over the coming years, Virgin will use the East Coast and West Coast branding to differentiate between their services, but it won't be an immediate change. Hell, some people think they are travelling on a Virgin train when using EC services at the moment anyway!

 

[Clip]

EDINBRUGH -> LONDON TERMINALS route: VIRGIN TRNS ONLY. ????

That's a ticket type though and not the trains destination or calling points on the board, as per the poster you quoted.

 

[lincolnshire]

Myself I would have not given East Coast to any company who wants to use Virgin branding for its trains, it will lead to total confusion with tickets for the general public. You will find people turning up with a ticket for Glasgow at Kings Cross getting on a Virgin train only to find there ticket is from Euston to Glasgow and can,t understand why they can,t use it , since East Coast is a Virgin train on the outside branding wise but franchise company wise a totally differant company.

Why must everybody think that a Virgin Train is going to be something differant, when all said and done its a train to take you from A to B which you hope will get you there and maybe you will get a seat and be on time, thats the same as every other train run by differant companies.

Also the comment about swapping trains between routes, forget it its not going to happen as the trains go with the franchise and belong to the leasing company and if you don,t keep up the payments they will be repossed.