Future public health policy when the COVID is over

[Bantamzen]

What's the wurst that could happen !

I 'slaw what you did there...

I'll get me coat!

 

[Domh245]

I believe that exercise (or lack of) is much more of an issue than what we eat; within reason, of course!

Not only that but I find being active actually makes me less likely to feel hungry.

Eating out is not a problem providing you don't make totally unreasonable choices and providing you do sufficient exercise.

Unfortunately the proportion of the population that does adequate exercise is very much in the minority, and it is that which is the fundamental problem here.

Fully agreed. At the end of the day what affects the weight is calories in v calories burnt. You could eat 2500kcal of fruit and veg only, but if you sit at home not doing anything all day and only burn 1700kcal you're going to be putting weight on. Encouraging people to be more active would be the best way to solve the country's obesity issue

 

[yorkie]

I’m obese and have been since I was a child. I’m nearly 31 now.

Still, I’ve just ran 12 miles, so I don’t think I’m overly unhealthy.

If you can run 12 miles you are in much better shape than many people! You can be well built and still be healthy!

Although I will happily play football for 3 hours and keep on running (I was most annoyed at having to stop after only 2 ¼ hours on the day of the lockdown 3 announcement) , I simply cannot get the motivation to go for a run for anything close to 12 miles!

 

[Master Cutler]

There are some double standards in play during this COVID pandemic.
My mother is 90 years old and in a care home. She had her first jab along with all other residents five weeks ago, but she is sill in total lock down and unable to mix with anyone from the outside.
My wife has a weekly COVID test for her work and has been negative for all tests, yet is unable to visit my mother.
However my wife and I can go to the supermarket or DIY store, where the public are able to handle the goods and break the 2m rule, but we can't sit down in a cafe for a coffee at a segregated table.
I have also been contacted by my dentist to advise business as usual for both dental and hygiene work, but I can't go for a visit to the barbers for my hair cut.

 

[Bantamzen]

If you can run 12 miles you are in much better shape than many people! You can be well built and still be healthy!

Although I will happily play football for 3 hours and keep on running, I simply cannot get the motivation to go for run for anything close to 12 miles!

In 3 hours of football you are probably running at least that! But I get what you are saying, I used to run a lot but it can be hard to motivate yourself.

 

[yorkie]

There are some double standards in play during this COVID pandemic.
My mother is 90 years old and in a care home. She had her first jab along with all other residents five weeks ago, but she is sill in total lock down and unable to mix with anyone from the outside.
My wife has a weekly COVID test for her work and has been negative for all tests, yet is unable to visit my mother.
However my wife and I can go to the supermarket or DIY store, where the public are able to handle the goods and break the 2m rule, but we can't sit down in a cafe for a coffee at a segregated table.
I have also been contacted by my dentist to advise business as usual for both dental and hygiene work, but I can't go for a visit to the barbers for my hair cut.

You are right none of this makes sense but we'd best not go too far into discussing that or we will soon get very off topic!

In 3 hours of football you are probably running at least that! But I get what you are saying, I used to run a lot but it can be hard to motivate yourself.

Very possibly; it's about the enjoyment aspect, social aspect and being able to motivate myself.

When I go for a run, I know that after maybe 2 miles I will feel good and have plenty of endorphins and I will feel a sense of fulfilment that I do not really need to run any further (if I have exceeded average jogging speed of 4-6 mph); I may do 3 miles but after that I will not feel motivated to continue.

Whereas playing football is quite a different story; I regularly have people decline an invitation to play (even for free) on the basis that they play for 1 hour a week and that is their lot. Others will decline an offer to play on a Tuesday on the basis that this is too soon before/after a Monday/Wednesday game. But all credit to these people for being able to do 1 hour of intense activity per week as not everyone can do that.

But I want to push myself further, yet am prevented from doing so, by authoritarian "public health" measures which appear to be drawn up by people who presumably own their own gym equipment in their homes, don't engage in team sports, and prioritise keeping elderly people alive over the health and wellbeing of younger people. I find this immensely frustrating; I try not to think about it too much as it is not good for mental health, but I really do feel like arguing against anyone who supports such ludicrous policies and giving them a piece of my mind.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I'm no fan of hand sanitiser but I do wash my hands frequently. I agree that many people do not wash their hands after using public toilets. That is still the case now, including one of the Covid one way system enforcers at Liverpool Central station!

On a wider note, most people in the UK seem to drive everywhere. Doesn't do much for the health of the nation. Difficult to see how that will change because most people live outwith walking or cycling distance from work.

Most people drive in the UK? Ok some do but I wouldn't say that there is car dependency compared to the likes of the USA.

 

[greyman42]

The government see obesity as a very sensitive subject and as such, are unwilling to say much on the subject in case it is seen as criticism of overweight people. The only people who seem willing to publicly speak on the subject, and offer constructive criticism and advice, are the medical community.

 

[bramling]

Most people drive in the UK? Ok some do but I wouldn't say that there is car dependency compared to the likes of the USA.

I’d say there’s certainly elements of car dependency in the UK. For large elements of the rural population there is no other realistic transport, whilst the baby boom generation in particular seem to see the car as the default choice for everything except city commuting - with political connotations attached to this especially relating to buses.

You will certainly find large numbers of people who never use a train, and others who would only do it for a London commute or in dire emergency.

 

[DB]

I’d say there’s certainly elements of car dependency in the UK. For large elements of the rural population there is no other realistic transport, whilst the baby boom generation in particular seem to see the car as the default choice for everything except city commuting - with political connotations attached to this especially relating to buses.

You will certainly find large numbers of people who never use a train, and others who would only do it for a London commute or in dire emergency.

Indeed. The USA probably is worse than any other country, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue here too.

Apart from London, where the sheer numbers travelling make it impractical for everyone to drive (hence the congestion charge) plus there is good public transport, most of the UK is fairly heavily car-dependant - and the more rural, the more pronouned this becomes.

 

[bramling]

Indeed. The USA probably is worse than any other country, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue here too.

Apart from London, where the sheer numbers travelling and the good public transport, most of the UK is fairly heavily car-dependant - and the more rural, the more pronouned this becomes.

I see some incredible laziness here at times, such as people who will drive a few hundred yards to the local post office, or whatever. Now some of these may have hidden disabilities, but I bet most don’t. Personally I find it more hassle getting the car out for such a journey, but evidently others have a different mindset.

 

[py_megapixel]

Interesting question...

I do believe that there are probably people who need to do more exercise. But I think people (including perferably children at school) need to be given a choice in how they do it.

For example: I've come to the conclusion that running simply isn't my thing. I've tried to take it up several times now, and always found it quite unsatisfying and tedious and just not enjoyed it at all.
However, I do enjoy long, strenuous walks and bike rides and I enjoy swimming. Those are equally legitimate forms of exercise.

I'm aware that plenty of people take different views to me on this. But I do wonder how many people have tried to take up one form of exercise - such as running - not enjoyed it at all, and given up entirely on the idea of partaking in any regular exercise, when in reality, they could have tried a few different types and found something that worked for them.

 

[bramling]

Interesting question...

I do believe that there are probably people who need to do more exercise. But I think people (including perferably children at school) need to be given a choice in how they do it.

For example: I've come to the conclusion that running simply isn't my thing. I've tried to take it up several times now, and always found it quite unsatisfying and tedious and just not enjoyed it at all.
However, I do enjoy long, strenuous walks and bike rides and I enjoy swimming. Those are equally legitimate forms of exercise.

I'm aware that plenty of people take different views to me on this. But I do wonder how many people have tried to take up one form of exercise - such as running - not enjoyed it at all, and given up entirely on the idea of partaking in any regular exercise, when in reality, they could have tried a few different types and found something that worked for them.

Agree with this. Certainly remembering back to my school days there was excessive focus on competitive team sports, as opposed to exercise and health activities. You couldn’t do anything recreationally without the expectation of being prepared for some kind of team, and there was nothing like running or weights offered.

Had there been such options available, I think there would have been fewer of the “hate sports” types who used to either suffer it and do the bare minimum to pass the time, or in some cases actively avoid it by faking ailments.

 

[Ken H]

Okay, I’d like to be able to do more exercise, and normally I do a *lot* over the summer. How can I do that when I am supposed to stay at home except for a finite quantity of exercise in my local area? I don’t wish to walk round and round my town as I will be breathing in motor fumes which isn’t good for me, if I go into the countryside pretty much every path is now a complete quagmire. Over the last week I’ve worked 64 hours so opportunities for meaningful exercise have been limited, and where they have (unofficially) arisen it’s been pouring with rain, or the ground covered in ice (and from other threads we shouldn’t be undertaking any activity which might make us a burden on the health service...)

I’m afraid I do blame Boris for this, as last year I’d have had four or more active outdoors holidays which would have incorporated a considerable amount of outdoors physical activity, none of which would have been a Covid risk to anyone.

you can stay out as long as you want. so you can do a very long walk.

 

[greyman42]

Agree with this. Certainly remembering back to my school days there was excessive focus on competitive team sports, as opposed to exercise and health activities. You couldn’t do anything recreationally without the expectation of being prepared for some kind of team, and there was nothing like running or weights offered.

Had there been such options available, I think there would have been fewer of the “hate sports” types who used to either suffer it and do the bare minimum to pass the time, or in some cases actively avoid it by faking ailments.

Athletics and cross country running were both participated in at my school.

 

[Master Cutler]

I think it should be perfectly safe to open swimming pools and allow pre booked swims to reduce numbers in the water. The pool water kills germs so COVID shouldn't be a problem.
It's the best excercise for both young and old.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Indeed. The USA probably is worse than any other country, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue here too.

Apart from London, where the sheer numbers travelling make it impractical for everyone to drive (hence the congestion charge) plus there is good public transport, most of the UK is fairly heavily car-dependant - and the more rural, the more pronouned this becomes.

And not just the UK. Another European country, Italy, to me, is also fairly car dependent too. And for them it's worse than in the UK because public transport, apart from a few school buses, in the majority of Italian rural areas is completely non existent. Like in the majority of the wealthier suburbs in the USA, you have no choice but to drive.

Ok Italy isn't as bad as the USA in car dependency but I still find them worse than the UK, and this coming from somebody who is partially Italian who has family who lives there.

As for the UK, even then, many rural areas do have enough bus services. The only rural areas with no public transport whatsoever in the UK tend to be small villages with populations of about 50 to 200.

Buses are well used in the UK too, but mostly by the young and the elderly.

 

[Mojo]

I think PE in school needs reforming to make physical exercise more attractive. I remember my school days and it really was a lowlight of my week; I often got my mum to write in a letter excusing me from the ritual or occasionally left my PE kit at home accidentally on purpose. There really needs to be a better approach rather over-reliance on team sport.

 

[Bikeman78]

Most people drive in the UK? Ok some do but I wouldn't say that there is car dependency compared to the likes of the USA.

From my observations, outside London, yes that is the case. At my work, five or six people out of approx 100 cycle, the rest all drive. A lot of the drivers live 10 to 30 miles away, but many live closer than I do. Most of my partner's extensive family drive everywhere, even if they could walk to their destination in 10 minutes. I get the impression they have all driven everywhere since the age of 17.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I think it should be perfectly safe to open swimming pools and allow pre booked swims to reduce numbers in the water. The pool water kills germs so COVID shouldn't be a problem.
It's the best excercise for both young and old.

Similarly, I think that equestrian centres and riding schools should be allowed to remain open. Riding is a non-contact sport and, realistically, unless perhaps you are an absolute beginner, you don't even need to get anywhere near - let alone within 2 metres of - the instructor or any other member of staff there. Many riding schools have been employing this "distanced" policy throughout 2020 and everything seemed to work fine then, so I don't understand why they're now being forced to shut (again) when you're allowed to go to your local Asda for an experience day of having people push past and lean all over you.

 

[Spamcan81]

The only way to make the country more healthy is to bring back the concept of personal responsibility. It's not as though we haven't been warned and nagged constantly about our lifestyles and diets, it's just it is always somebody else's fault. A good example is obesity, eat less rubbish and do some exercise but the self-professed experts always blame the manufacturers for putting too much salt or sugar in foods. The latter is a contributing factor but the only one that will have a profound effect is to get individuals to take some responsibility and cut out all the nonsense about body shaming. Blobs the size of a house should be shamed and ashamed.

So you approve of bullying someone because of their size? The answer is educating them, not shaming them. Obesity is a problem but shaming is not the answer IMO.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I think when it comes to exercise (particularly PE in schools), what's really needed is variety. This quote from earlier nailed it in my view:

I do believe that there are probably people who need to do more exercise. But I think people (including perferably children at school) need to be given a choice in how they do it.

I'm just not sure the answer is to promote individual activities over team sports. My old school was really good about having a mixture of both, every term we had either football, rugby, or cricket, paired with something less competitive. But I have to be honest, the vast majority of people preferred the team sports to the alternative, and this was in the least athletic band of kids. I'll concede that my school might not be typical of everyone's experience - interest in sports was always very intense where I grew up - but this idea that there's a huge pool of people who'd become way more active if team sports were side-lined doesn't really ring true with my experience. Personally, I was pretty terrible at the physical side of things either way, so I preferred team sports for the mental stimulation and sense of camaraderie that you just didn't get with boring exercises.

To bring this back to public health, I'll give an example of a practical problem, one where the government needs to remember exercise isn't just running and the gym. I would have absolutely no idea of how to get involved in team sports as an adult (in more normal times - clearly at the moment it's banned). This is purely a hypothetical question, and I have no interest myself in imminently taking up a sport, but there will be people in the same boat as me who do want to take something up. Why doesn't the government try to inform people of how to do so?

 

[HSTEd]

I didn't ask anyone to impose a lockdown to save me from obesity, indeed I am one of the least pro lockdown people on this forum.

It is really noones business how big or not someone is, and they should just shut up and stop scapegoating them for Government policy.

 

[takno]

To bring this back to public health, I'll give an example of a practical problem, one where the government needs to remember exercise isn't just running and the gym. I would have absolutely no idea of how to get involved in team sports as an adult (in more normal times - clearly at the moment it's banned). This is purely a hypothetical question, and I have no interest myself in imminently taking up a sport, but there will be people in the same boat as me who do want to take something up. Why doesn't the government try to inform people of how to do so?

In theory, sports governing bodies do this kind of outreach. How good they are at it is extremely variable across sports, and over time.

Given that the governing bodies of most sports are barely staving off bankruptcy at the moment, and in a lot of cases have laid off (permanently, rather than on furlough) most or in some cases all of their full-time staff, I wouldn't expect any useful promotion of sport in the UK at all for the next couple of years.

 

[py_megapixel]

I didn't ask anyone to impose a lockdown to save me from obesity, indeed I am one of the least pro lockdown people on this forum.

It is really noones business how big or not someone is, and they should just shut up and stop scapegoating them for Government policy.

There is the argument that if obesity puts one at greater risk of medical conditions which they will then require NHS treatment for then it is relevant to government policy.

I'm not sure I'd agree personally with the line of thinking that those who make unhealthy lifestyle choices don't deserve to use the NHS. What I do agree with is that the NHS should be identifying the causes of medical conditions in any particular individual, and hopefully prevent it happening again.

For example, if a smoker develops a lung condition that is clearly linked to smoking, then part of their treatment should be assistance to help them to stop smoking. I'm not decided on whether this should be a mandatory condition of the treatment or not.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I think PE in school needs reforming to make physical exercise more attractive. I remember my school days and it really was a lowlight of my week; I often got my mum to write in a letter excusing me from the ritual or occasionally left my PE kit at home accidentally on purpose. There really needs to be a better approach rather over-reliance on team sport.

Agree with this. I've never been a "sporty" person - I only really enjoy horse riding but I do also enjoy going on long countryside walks. I felt the exact same way and also did those same things - sometimes even asking my mum to let me take the day off just because of that hour-long torture session.

I just think the whole concept surrounding PE is flawed on every level.

The PE department at my school seemed to think that just because you're a boy, you must be football-mad (I've never played a game of football in my life!) Nine out of ten PE lessons were just back-to-back football matches in the mud with Mr PE coach with severe anger management issues yelling at you for "not participating" - which of course then made me even more reluctant to do so!

There was zero attempt whatsoever to teach us anything about the horrible team sports that we were forced to endure. I'd say the only thing I learnt from who knows how many years worth of PE lessons is that the PE coach at my secondary school (if you could even call him that) must've gained a lot of pleasure from insulting non-football-mad children and making them lie down in sloppy mud.

I think that there should be a greater emphasis on teaching about practical ways in which you, as an individual, can stay healthy - eating correctly, exercises to do, etc. - instead of just collectively being thrown a half-deflated ball and told to kick it around for the next hour.

 

[bramling]

I think when it comes to exercise (particularly PE in schools), what's really needed is variety. This quote from earlier nailed it in my view:

I'm just not sure the answer is to promote individual activities over team sports. My old school was really good about having a mixture of both, every term we had either football, rugby, or cricket, paired with something less competitive. But I have to be honest, the vast majority of people preferred the team sports to the alternative, and this was in the least athletic band of kids. I'll concede that my school might not be typical of everyone's experience - interest in sports was always very intense where I grew up - but this idea that there's a huge pool of people who'd become way more active if team sports were side-lined doesn't really ring true with my experience. Personally, I was pretty terrible at the physical side of things either way, so I preferred team sports for the mental stimulation and sense of camaraderie that you just didn't get with boring exercises.

To bring this back to public health, I'll give an example of a practical problem, one where the government needs to remember exercise isn't just running and the gym. I would have absolutely no idea of how to get involved in team sports as an adult (in more normal times - clearly at the moment it's banned). This is purely a hypothetical question, and I have no interest myself in imminently taking up a sport, but there will be people in the same boat as me who do want to take something up. Why doesn't the government try to inform people of how to do so?

The trouble with the team sports is that it’s very easy for the best people to be pushed for the teams, and everyone else to be sidelined. That isn’t necessarily an issue for those who really aren’t interested, but for everyone in the middle it’s rather demotivating.

Certainly I remember my place had its sole focus being on developing for the teams. Anyone else was little more than brown stuff on the shoe, who could either turn up and be humoured, or skive off and no one really cared. The latter did introduce other unofficial options as, for example, the librarians were very happy to “hide” people in there (*no one* challenged the librarians, so people were able to disappear in there and there wasn’t much the PE department could do about it on the day, not that they particularly cared but every now and again one of them would take it personally and challenge someone) so it was very common for people to spend the afternoon playing computer strategy games (basic in those days!), reading, or whatever.

I don’t think any of this would have been an issue had there been other alternatives available, running and weights spring to mind as two obvious ones. In fact they did offer running, sort of, but again it was only offered with the expectation that people were developing themselves for the team. You couldn’t just turn up and spend the afternoon running and that be the end of it.

Looking back some years later it was all extremely dysfunctional and remiss.

 

[py_megapixel]

Agree with this. I've never been a "sporty" person - I only really enjoy horse riding but I do also enjoy going on long countryside walks. I felt the exact same way and also did those same things - sometimes even asking my mum to let me take the day off just because of that hour-long torture session.

At risk of dragging the thread slightly off topic, a naive question from someone who's never ridden a horse in their life. Do you find it particularly tiring to do?
My assumption has always been that the horse does most of the work, but that's probably wrong come to think of it.

I should point out that my aim here is not to discount it as a means of exercise.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Going back to the UK: the good thing which should hopefully fight against obesity is that apparently junk and unhealthy food will be banned for sale in supermarkets from next year.

 

[takno]

Agree with this. I've never been a "sporty" person - I only really enjoy horse riding but I do also enjoy going on long countryside walks. I felt the exact same way and also did those same things - sometimes even asking my mum to let me take the day off just because of that hour-long torture session.

I just think the whole concept surrounding PE is flawed on every level.

The PE department at my school seemed to think that just because you're a boy, you must be football-mad (I've never played a game of football in my life!) Nine out of ten PE lessons were just back-to-back football matches in the mud with Mr PE coach with severe anger management issues yelling at you for "not participating" - which of course then made me even more reluctant to do so!

There was zero attempt whatsoever to teach us anything about the horrible team sports that we were forced to endure. I'd say the only thing I learnt from who knows how many years worth of PE lessons is that the PE coach at my secondary school (if you could even call him that) must've gained a lot of pleasure from insulting non-football-mad children and making them lie down in sloppy mud.

I think that there should be a greater emphasis on teaching about practical ways in which you, as an individual, can stay healthy - eating correctly, exercises to do, etc. - instead of just collectively being thrown a half-deflated ball and told to kick it around for the next hour.

Most schools do team sports better than this. Certainly football was the sport I liked the least, because everybody else had been playing it for years while I didn't really have a clue. Even then though the teachers made an attempt to teach us some skills and rules. I preferred Rugby, where nobody had a great deal of experience, and Cricket and Hockey where I had an advantage based on what my primary school had taught.

I appreciate that even with better teaching, team sports can be frustrating to people who are less able or less inclined to participate, but even that is something which can be effectively managed. By contrast I absolutely hated cross-country, and found individual gym sessions, exercise training, athletics, and gymnastics almost insufferably dull.