GEML Closure 31/01 to 22/03

[nuneatonmark]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but I can't find a thread relating to this recently. Does anyone know why no one had thought to route some trains from Norwich/Ipswich via Cambridge to maintain a direct train link during this period? It's a hell of a long time to be without any trains to/from London.

 

[trivran]

Lack of wires?

 

[GB]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but I can't find a thread relating to this recently. Does anyone know why no one had thought to route some trains from Norwich/Ipswich via Cambridge to maintain a direct train link during this period? It's a hell of a long time to be without any trains to/from London.

These are only Saturday to Monday morning closures so its not like the line will be without trains for months. The booked route is rail replacement bus to Billericay and take the train from there which I'm sure in the majority of cases would be quicker than getting the train via Cambridge.

 

[NLC1072]

These are only Saturday to Monday morning closures so its not like the line will be without trains for months. The booked route is rail replacement bus to Billericay and take the train from there which I'm sure in the majority of cases would be quicker than getting the train via Cambridge.

Indeed it will be, but it's one hell of a block!

 

[badassunicorn]

back in the day didn't they use diesel engines to take the hauled sets via cambridge from norwich? CAn't remember if it was during Anglia or ONE days.

 

[306024]

During Ipswich tunnel closure (summer 2004 for 6 weeks I think) a couple of trains ran via Cambridge to rotate the sets back to Crown Point for maintenance.

Back in the dim and distant (1980s for a short while) there were some Liverpool St - Norwich trains that ran via Thetford, class 37 and load 7 Mk1 or something like that.

On Sundays the Norwich - Cambridge service is timed to connect at Cambridge cross platform (4 and 5) with the Cambridge - Liverpool St service.

Just hope the weather and the A12 hold up

 

[yorkie]

Lack of wires?

Not a problem: attach a diesel locomotive. It was done about 10 years ago; it could be done again today.

Weekday services were:
0630 Norwich - Liverpool Street
1212 Norwich - Liverpool Street
1147 Liverpool Street - Norwich
1727 Liverpool Street - Norwich

 

[306024]

Not without a lot of additional cost, not worth it if you can simply change at Cambridge.

 

[Class 170101]

No will anymore because certain grades wield too much power. The route knowledge should have been kept at the time (2004) but was allowed to lapse. :-x

In any event the WAML is busier now than it was 10 years ago and the DMU fleet is worked harder rather than running to / from Liverpool Street, so good luck finding paths this way.

 

[chubs]

Caught a double 170 LST to NRW routed via Cambridge when the Ipswich tunnel thing was happening.

The buffet was closed (only other one was open, which I of course couldn't get to) but otherwise it worked.

If you have an off peak ticket NRW - LST are you allowed to do Norwich to Cambridge then FCC to KGX or does it have to be the slower aga train?

 

[Bald Rick]

And it's only really any use for those travelling Norwich to London throughout. Which frankly is a rather small proportion of GEML users.

This does however give me the opportunity to replay my favourite ever 'Have your say' comment from the BBC website.

A bridge was being replaced near Diss over a 4 day block at Christmas. A commenter had a stereotypical moan about trying to get home to Norfolk and not knowing that she would be dumped in the middle of nowhere for a replacement bus.

Next commenter wrote, and I quote, "The benefit of being from Norfolk is that whichever station you are dumped at, there is always a close relative nearby to give you a lift"

 

[sadgit]

If you have an off peak ticket NRW - LST are you allowed to do Norwich to Cambridge then FCC to KGX or does it have to be the slower aga train?

That is a permitted route and is issued for Advance tickets from London to Norwich and the reverse. I wouldn't recommend it usually because of the very slim six minute connection time at Cambridge, although obviously there aren't many other options at this point...

Next commenter wrote, and I quote, "The benefit of being from Norfolk is that whichever station you are dumped at, there is always a close relative nearby to give you a lift"

 

[LAX54]

Indeed it will be, but it's one hell of a block!

Big block indeed, but as others have said only on a Saturday and Sunday, and in what must be the quietest part of the year, but there is a lot of work going on within those blocks, renewing points C/S of Colchester, renewing points at Marks Tey, the same at Witham OHL work Chelmsford, its about time they did work like this, rather then spread it all out over months and months doing a little bit here and a little bit there, if you are going to have to have a bus service, which all of this work needs, then make it worthwhile !

As for running via Cambridge, reckon that is now down to Route Knowledge, Loco availabilty and capacity issue Cambridge onwards, although they may strengthen some Cambridge services from Norwich ? but if you left Norwich at 0537 you would get to Liverpool Street at 0844 (via Cambridge) via GEML it will be Norwich 0600 arriving Liverpool Street 0900. (bus Manningtree to Bilericay)

 

[306024]

Big block indeed..............if you left Norwich at 0537 you would get to Liverpool Street at 0844 (via Cambridge) via GEML it will be Norwich 0600 arriving Liverpool Street 0900. (bus Manningtree to Bilericay)

Change at Ipswich rather than Manningtree, there are direct coaches between Ipswich and Billericay that avoid Colchester. Only change at Manningtree if you want intermediate stations.

Looking at the revised timetable on the AGA website this thread should be in the buses and coaches section. A huge bus and coach operation, should get the bus enthusiasts out with their cameras to make up for the loss of passengers.

 

[dk1]

As for running via Cambridge, reckon that is now down to Route Knowledge, Loco availabilty and capacity issue Cambridge onwards, although they may strengthen some Cambridge services from Norwich ? but if you left Norwich at 0537 you would get to Liverpool Street at 0844 (via Cambridge) via GEML it will be Norwich 0600 arriving Liverpool Street 0900. (bus Manningtree to Bilericay)

Or 0808 into Kings Cross with time for an AMT in Cambridge.

 

[jopsuk]

is there any scope to strengthen the Cambridge-Norwich service? GA do have a DMU problem, and would the intermediate stations cope with longer trains?

 

[dk1]

is there any scope to strengthen the Cambridge-Norwich service? GA do have a DMU problem, and would the intermediate stations cope with longer trains?

2x156 is sometimes used as provides more seats (at the expense of 1st) & yes all stations can accommodate.

 

[chubs]

Are there enough MKII's and MKIII's to make up an extra short hauled set?

 

[Class 170101]

Too slow. 40mph max speed between Brandon and Ely North Jn. With other less severe speed restrictions elsewhere en - route.

 

[dk1]

Too slow. 40mph max speed between Brandon and Ely North Jn. With other less severe speed restrictions elsewhere en - route.

Don't want to be picky but it's 45mph Lakenheath to Ely NJ for LHCS.

 

[306024]

It's not being picky, just being accurate

Nearly all Norwich - Cambridge and Ipswich - Cambridge services are diagrammed for 3 car 170s, just the odd early/late service is something shorter. Not much more you can do unless Crown Point can cough up a unit off maintenance.

 

[Bald Rick]

but there is a lot of work going on within those blocks, renewing points C/S of Colchester, renewing points at Marks Tey, the same at Witham OHL work Chelmsford, its about time they did work like this, rather then spread it all out over months and months doing a little bit here and a little bit there

I don't want to be picky, but GEML works have been planned like this for more than a decade, with multiple works in one block. Indeed, it has been the same (quite excellent) chap doing this forward planning for more than a decade.

 

[90sWereBetter]

I tried booking a London trip for 21st/22nd February from Ipswich, using the rail replacement and apparently there are no advance fares available (or at least there wasn't when I checked). It would cost me nearly £51 for a return via Billericay.

Good thing I've decided to book via Cambridge for that weekend. It puts an hour onto my journey, but it's saved me nearly £25. Gives me more mileage (I haven't done the WAML as of yet), and avoids having to use bloody rail replacement coaches.

 

[306024]

That is precisely the point. The last thing you need on a rail replacement coach service is to create additional demand by offering cheap fares. Take the Norwich service alone, 500 pax on each intercity set would require 10 road coaches per train. Although Billericay has a fairly large car park, the access isn't totally straight forward. Demand has to be suppressed to match the operational capability of the replacement road transport.

And the route via Cambridge is quite nice

I don't want to be picky, but GEML works have been planned like this for more than a decade, with multiple works in one block. Indeed, it has been the same (quite excellent) chap doing this forward planning for more than a decade.

Extremely excellent chap indeed a thankless task trying to match everyone's requirements.

And this morning from the AGA website

Disruption to rail replacement bus services between Billericay and Southend Victoria
Owing to a road accident between Hockley and Rayleigh (Hambro Hill) which involves a road closure, rail replacement bus services between Billericay and Southend Victoria are being severely disrupted with delays between 20 and 30 minutes. The police have given no indication as to when the road is likely to be reopened. This disruption to rail replacement services is expected to continue for some time.

You couldn't make it up.

 

[LAX54]

I don't want to be picky, but GEML works have been planned like this for more than a decade, with multiple works in one block. Indeed, it has been the same (quite excellent) chap doing this forward planning for more than a decade.

Yes, I know but not normally on such a wide area for such a long period, even at Christmas they are not so 'big' There have been Ipswich- Norwich , Colchester - Ipswich blocks for some time, mainly Sundays only, but really only one major 'event' in each, or over the past couple of years midnight to about 0445 Colchester-Ipswich or Ipswich to Haughjley, there are the Hight Output Ballast Cleaner possessions, currently Diss to Norwich, but only one location of work, so far the Ballast Cleaner blocks have gone quite well, not sure how many people travel on the first Up Norwich at 0420 though which arrives London about 25 mins ahead of the 0530 !

 

[Pugwash]

is there any news on whether the overhead line equipment on the chelmsford viaduct will be replaced with this work - I cycled underneath the viaduct this morning and could not believe it had not already been replaced given all the closures of the line.

As I understand it the original 1947 equipment is still in place in that section ?

With regards to the buses, the frustration is that they go to Billericay, I understand this is because it is easier to park buses and unload passengers there, but it does increase journey times rather than going directly to Shenfield by bus ( or indeed going all the way to Harold Wood ).

 

[306024]

Shenfield - Chelmsford was electrified in 1956 but there are still parts to be replaced. The area around Church Lane has been done though following a couple of spectacular dewirements a while back. It is a huge project that can't all be done at once, somewhere has to be last

You are right regarding Billericay, both Shenfield and Harold Wood are totally impractical locations where the local infrastructure couldn't cope with the number of coaches and buses required at certain times of the day, so comparing the journey time to Billericay is a bit of a moot point.

 

[steverailer]

Big block indeed, but as others have said only on a Saturday and Sunday, and in what must be the quietest part of the year, but there is a lot of work going on within those blocks, renewing points C/S of Colchester, renewing points at Marks Tey, the same at Witham OHL work Chelmsford, its about time they did work like this, rather then spread it all out over months and months doing a little bit here and a little bit there, if you are going to have to have a bus service, which all of this work needs, then make it worthwhile !

Its the best thing for the line, there is quite alot of work to be done on there and this is actually the cheapest option to do the work. Just as an example, replacing the old and missing RC wire. Due to the short length of the midweek posessions allowed on this line a max of 1000m/week is replaced with mid week posessions, sometimes it can be as little as 500m. Get a full weekend block and you can easily do 4-6000m,mand this costs the same in manpower and machinery as the midweek does.

is there any news on whether the overhead line equipment on the chelmsford viaduct will be replaced with this work - I cycled underneath the viaduct this morning and could not believe it had not already been replaced given all the closures of the line.

As I understand it the original 1947 equipment is still in place in that section ?

Is it actually due for replacement? just because its old doesn't mean it needs replacing. I've not worked that far up, but do know some of the stuff nearer London needs changing

 

[Pugwash]

Its the best thing for the line, there is quite alot of work to be done on there and this is actually the cheapest option to do the work. Just as an example, replacing the old and missing RC wire. Due to the short length of the midweek posessions allowed on this line a max of 1000m/week is replaced with mid week posessions, sometimes it can be as little as 500m. Get a full weekend block and you can easily do 4-6000m,mand this costs the same in manpower and machinery as the midweek does.



Is it actually due for replacement? just because its old doesn't mean it needs replacing. I've not worked that far up, but do know some of the stuff nearer London needs changing

As I understand it the whole section is to be replaced to allow for the tension to be adjusted for temperature, the lack of this has caused speed restrictions in hot weather.

Also the equipment has been up there in all kind of weathers for 50+ years, I am not sure of the design lifetime of the equipment but by most measures it will have been exceeded.

 

[Class 170101]

Don't want to be picky but it's 45mph Lakenheath to Ely NJ for LHCS.

Still very slow :P
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's not being picky, just being accurate

Nearly all Norwich - Cambridge and Ipswich - Cambridge services are diagrammed for 3 car 170s, just the odd early/late service is something shorter. Not much more you can do unless Crown Point can cough up a unit off maintenance.

Good luck with that one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I tried booking a London trip for 21st/22nd February from Ipswich, using the rail replacement and apparently there are no advance fares available (or at least there wasn't when I checked). It would cost me nearly £51 for a return via Billericay.

Well they are there now. I just looked on NRES.

For those in Norwich some cheap fares on Sunday via Cambridge and West Anglia to / from Liverpool Street.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't want to be picky, but GEML works have been planned like this for more than a decade, with multiple works in one block. Indeed, it has been the same (quite excellent) chap doing this forward planning for more than a decade.

A bright light in otherwise dull embers if its who I think it is.