GEML franchise 2016

[grumblingalong]

Oh well, take the money & shut it dk1.

Got it in one.

 

[Bringback309s]

Slight change of subject, can the Sudbury branch cope with 3 cars? And will the platform at Marks Tey be electrified for changeover to overhead?

 

[Bletchleyite]

FLIRT cars are quite short, 16m I think though the cab ends are longer.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DasLunatic]

16mx 12 cars = 192m.
A MkIII is 20m(?) and GA operates nine of them in a rake.
20 m x 9 cars = 180m

Remove 3m each end for the cab and storage and there is 186m. This is larger than the current MkIII rake. And there's no loco or DVT on the end taking up platform room.

 

[306024]

Or will the platform extensions at Marks Tey (Outwards from the platform edge) that were required for class 150s be needed again. Those reduced the line speed to 5mph. Meanwhile with Selective Door Operation anything is possible. So many questions !!

The Sudbury branch operating to Colchester Town is a performance Achilles Heel if ever you saw one. Be interesting to see how it is proposed to fit, but if this is an example of how performance will improve through a more robust timetable, I need to purchase a hat for lunch.

 

[DasLunatic]

Slight change of subject, can the Sudbury branch cope with 3 cars? And will the platform at Marks Tey be electrified for changeover to overhead?

A FLIRT car is 16m, so a unit would be 48m long.

According to the Sectional Appendix, platform lengths are as follows:
Marks Tey: 50m
Chappel: 107m
Bures: 82m
Sudbury: 52m
So the Sudbury branch CAN do three-car FLIRTS, just. They'll probably expand the platforms at Marks Tey and Sudbury just to be on the safe side, however.

 

[jopsuk]

We have no technical details on the GB spec units. The carriages could be longer. They could be shorter. Just because the units built for continental systems have had 16m carriages doesn't mean the GB ones will. After all, with existing trains, the Desiro, Electro/TurboStar, Networker and Aventra families all include multiple carriage size variants. The Mark 3 family- MUs and coaching stock- did. Hell, even the Mark 1 coach came in two length variants. Assuming the dimensions of units in a family based on existing units is a fools game.
For the record, Mark 3 coaches are 23m, the Class 90 is 18.75m, the DVT is 18.83m for a 244.58m train. I would not be surprised if the 12-car IC sets are also about 245m, with 20m intermediates and slightly longer driving cars. After all, increasing passenger accommodation is a required outcome.

 

[J-2739]

I think it was confirmed that the FLIRTs are to be articulated.

 

[Class 170101]

Err, look in the timetable. That is exactly what is provided (OK it is 321s Mon to Sat and a 360 on a Sunday).

Departs Liverpool Street at 19.32 seven days a week, which is what Stena Line requested to enable passengers to dine on the ship before turning in for the night.

Quite agree it is a most civilised way to travel to Holland.

Frankly that 19:32 on a Sunday night is a pain. People in the wrong portion, language barriers etc. That train should be replaced with a 20:00(ish) on Sunday night calling Stratford, Shenfield, Chelmsford, Witham, Colchester, Manningtree and Harwich International.

Arguably divert the 19:32 from London to Ipswich vice Harwich Monday to Saturday and the 20:02 London to Ipswich divert to Harwich running this way everyday.
20:00ish Capacity buster on Sunday evenings.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Trouble is these trains lovely as they would be will take up valuable paths for a load of often less than 50-100 ship passengers. This is no longer an efficient use of scarce recourses at very heavily travelling times on the GEML. Low cost airlines & now shortly to start Eurostar services to the Netherlands have dented traffic in a very large way. Busiest times now are for the Cruise ship arrivals.

Indeed the opposite journey was more interesting:-
17:27 Liverpool Street to Harwich International calling at Colchester only.
17:30 for Manningtree, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss and Norwich overtaking the 17:27 at Colchester.

The 17:27 was virtually empty leaving Colchester after all the commuters got off.

 

[dk1]

Indeed the opposite journey was more interesting:-
17:27 Liverpool Street to Harwich International calling at Colchester only.
17:30 for Manningtree, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss and Norwich overtaking the 17:27 at Colchester.

The 17:27 was virtually empty leaving Colchester after all the commuters got off.

Initially the 17:30 was booked to follow the 17:27 & came to a stand most nights outside Colchester. I seem to remember it was changed with the 17:27 running into platform 1 & the 17:30 flying through 2.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I'll be surprised at that I doubt that the body shell would allow 2+3 seating, see this plan of the Crossrail stock which obviously will be different inside but does show the 2+2 seating in the middle of cars. <--Plan removed-->> I can see the cars being high density and possibly standard class only for the Southends, Herfords etc but I'll be surprised if the 5 cars which are likely to run all the way to Norwich for the 3rd train don't have 1st class?

The body will easily allow 3+2 seating. The seats will be closer together and not have armrests. Compare 350/1 seating as new

with 450 seating

Neither of these are my pictures.

Both are identical bodyshells produced around about the same time.

If the 350/450 can do it (and its not the widest bodyshell in the world), then the Aventra can.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

With the frequency of unnecessary name changes in this region, the logo or livery of all the new trains will probably be obsolete within 2 months of their delivery.

At least the portion of AGA now transferred to London Overground will be maintaining a consistent image for many years to come.

It won't though will it.. You're talking about TFL Rail? That will shortly be branded Elizabeth line. It will be Crossrail.

 

[Domh245]

Both are identical bodyshells produced around about the same time.

If the 350/450 can do it (and its not the widest bodyshell in the world), then the Aventra can.

However the Aventras will have 22m or 24m cars to the Desiro's 20m cars. Therefore, they will need to be narrower to stay in gauge, which in turn could just make the aisle in the 3+2 sections slightly too narrow

 

[superalbs]

with 450 seating

That's actually a Thailand Class 360, for the airport shuttle, which is 2+2 without armrests.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_th-bangkok-airport-desiro_03.jpg

 

[plcd1]

Originally Posted by GospelOak117
With the frequency of unnecessary name changes in this region, the logo or livery of all the new trains will probably be obsolete within 2 months of their delivery.

At least the portion of AGA now transferred to London Overground will be maintaining a consistent image for many years to come.

It won't though will it.. You're talking about TFL Rail? That will shortly be branded Elizabeth line. It will be Crossrail.

There were two transfers. The Shenfield Line to TfL Rail. That name stays until the Elizabeth Line name takes over in December 2018 when operation through the tunnel commences. I fully expect the Elizabeth Line branding will (unfortunately) remain consistent once it is launched. I'd prefer "Crossrail" but Boris sank that in another bombastic act of self indulgence.

The Cheshunt via S Sisters, Enfield Town, Chingford and Romford-Upminster lines went to London Overground. That branding will remain consistent regardless of operator.

 

[Class 170101]

I seem to remember it was changed with the 17:27 running into platform 1 & the 17:30 flying through 2.

This is how I always remember it.

 

[Alfie1014]

However the Aventras will have 22m or 24m cars to the Desiro's 20m cars. Therefore, they will need to be narrower to stay in gauge, which in turn could just make the aisle in the 3+2 sections slightly too narrow

I think I'm right in saying that the only British 23m stock with 2+3 seating are the 323s? And these can only fit 2+2 in the end of the vehicles because they are quite tapered, a feature the Aventras don't appear to have.

 

[Domh245]

I think I'm right in saying that the only British 23m stock with 2+3 seating are the 323s? And these can only fit 2+2 in the end of the vehicles because they are quite tapered, a feature the Aventras don't appear to have.

The 165s and 166s also have 3+2 seating and (nominally) 23m vehicles.

 

[J-2739]

I think I'm right in saying that the only British 23m stock with 2+3 seating are the 323s? And these can only fit 2+2 in the end of the vehicles because they are quite tapered, a feature the Aventras don't appear to have.

The 165s and 166s also have 3+2 seating and (nominally) 23m vehicles.

They are both wide bodied though (2.80/1m) to take advantage of the slightly generous loading gauge they serve. It would be interesting how Abellio manages to fit 3+2 seating on a 2.73m wide go anywhere Aventra...

 

[asylumxl]

They are both wide bodied though (2.80/1m) to take advantage of the slightly generous loading gauge they serve. It would be interesting how Abellio manages to fit 3+2 seating on a 2.73m wide go anywhere Aventra...

I feel it's worth pointing out it's only 7cm difference in width. It's hardly a large difference.

The body profile is far more likely to have an impact.

 

[Bringback309s]

Another thought - why not make the new Sudbury to Colchester Town service become a Sudbury to Walton, and simply merge the two existing services?

 

[Wivenswold]

Another thought - why not make the new Sudbury to Colchester Town service become a Sudbury to Walton, and simply merge the two existing services?

That's not a bad idea, if the service goes bad have a warm spare at Manningtree depot which could quickly be dispatched for that or the Harwich Branch which could also be run by a Stadler 4 car.

I assume Colchester drivers are signed on both routes.

 

[Ianno87]

Another thought - why not make the new Sudbury to Colchester Town service become a Sudbury to Walton, and simply merge the two existing services?

I've not worked it out, but the timings on the single line to Sudbury might not line up very well with the timings on the single line to Walton, plus all the jiggery pokery around Colchester.

Additionally, the Walton trains are timed to connect in/out of Clacton trains are Thorpe-le-Soken, which might have to be sacrificed.

 

[MisterT]

A new impression of the UK Flirt at Innotrans:

http://i0.wp.com/railcolornews.com/wp-content/uploads/image-8.jpeg

(picture by Railcolor: http://railcolornews.com/2016/09/19/innotrans-2016/)

 

[J-2739]

Ugly thing. The older impressions were way better.

 

[Class 170101]

Not convinced about one door on each side of each carriage.

 

[Wivenswold]

I like the Pheasant-catching spike at the front. I'll get the pot warmed up.

Did some rough calculations on future PVRs, if LST-NRW is a mix of 4+4 and 12 car Stadlers, then Walton to Colchester will have to be Aventra 5s.

 

[Mordac]

I'm really not a fan of the whole FLIRT concept. I hope no one else buys these.

 

[Bungle965]

I'm really not a fan of the whole FLIRT concept. I hope no one else buys these.

Are you going to elaborate on why you are not a fan of the `FLIRT concept`?
Sam

 

[332 > 444]

A new impression of the UK Flirt at Innotrans:

http://i0.wp.com/railcolornews.com/wp-content/uploads/image-8.jpeg

(picture by Railcolor: http://railcolornews.com/2016/09/19/innotrans-2016/)

Looks like their FLIRT200 from their website, this angle does it no justice.

 

[Mordac]

Are you going to elaborate on why you are not a fan of the `FLIRT concept`?
Sam

I've more misgivings about the bi-modes: the whole idea of keeping a diesel engine in a cupboard* on one coach just seems odd to me. It seems like it's going backwards on the advantages of distributed traction.

For the electrics I've less concerns, but still some concern over short coaches with only one door, and how articulated stock will affect wear and tear on the track.


*I realize it's not just a cupboard, I'm just being facetious.