GEML franchise 2016

[ainsworth74]

Seeing as they're replacing the entire fleet with these two types, I'm guessing there won't be any dedicated intercity spec stock for the Norwich services? In that case I hope these Aventras have some kind of 350/1 style intercity spec interior.

Why not? You can have different specs within the different classes easily enough (the 350s being a prime example!) so I can easily see an Aventra sub-class which is dedicated for the Norwich intercity services and with the interior to match.

 

[uefacup81]

Why not? You can have different specs within the different classes easily enough (the 350s being a prime example!) so I can easily see an Aventra sub-class which is dedicated for the Norwich intercity services and with the interior to match.

Hopefully they'll be able to create something that approximates the comfort of the Mk3 stock. It seems that most multiple units these days, even the InterCity ones, are very low on comfort compared to LHCS.

Unless anyone knows of any classes that buck this trend?

 

[Wivenswold]

Let's hope the Flirt trains have a better interior than these ones. Looks more like the inside of a portacabin.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stadler_FLIRT_EMU_interior.JPG

 

[LLivery]

Do we know that that is going to be the public facing brand rather than just the company name? I don't think the announcement was very specific on that so we could get to launch day and find that the brand name is something a bit less corporate (perhaps just East Anglia?).

This was according to BBC Look East twitter. Whether they got it wrong, I'm not sure
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Twitter is going mental with outrage. Why? They have screamed for investment for years and now they have got it they are all moaning again.

Because they have no faith in Abellio (or National Express) to actually improve. Its a very much "I'll believe it when I see it" approach of caution. If I didn't know any better, I'd think the same, my experience of AGA has been rubbish.

 

[332 > 444]

Let's hope the Flirt trains have a better interior than these ones. Looks more like the inside of a portacabin.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stadler_FLIRT_EMU_interior.JPG

At least it's spacious, even with 3+2! you can wheel a pram/luggage through that with no problem. Also FLIRT vehicles are short and 2.8m so we may be getting close to the European versions, that's if they allow the articulated version over here

 

[LLivery]

I know nothing about Stadler or FLIRTS. Do they have a good reputation and where will they be built?

 

[MisterT]

Let's hope the Flirt trains have a better interior than these ones. Looks more like the inside of a portacabin.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stadler_FLIRT_EMU_interior.JPG

The FLIRT trains can be fully customized. This is also a Stadler Flirt:

http://www.railpage.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/01846b3d221398a43a7ef4ed7f08b5b51.jpg
(Leo Express)
Or MTR Express in Sweden:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_eu-Stadler_Bussnang_first_Flirt_interior.jpg

 

[87015]

I know nothing about Stadler or FLIRTS. Do they have a good reputation and where will they be built?

Terrible reputation for coming apart in crashes if nothing else. See Meridian and the Italian one, the Dutch Flirt v Tractor...

 

[MisterT]

The Italian one was the old FLIRT type, that is no longer built due to not meeting the latest crash requirements. The Dutch one was a GTW, not a FLIRT.

 

[3141]

Hopefully they'll be able to create something that approximates the comfort of the Mk3 stock. It seems that most multiple units these days, even the InterCity ones, are very low on comfort compared to LHCS.

Unless anyone knows of any classes that buck this trend?

By InterCity EMUs, do you mean ones with end doors? The only such EMUs are Class 444. I don't find the seats particularly comfortable, though others do, but I think they ride very smoothly. It should be possible to provide more comfortable seats in any new train, if the ROSCO is prepared to pay for them and the TOC is prepared to pay a slightly higher leasing cost.

Will there be a version of the Aventra with end doors? I haven't seen any information about that so far, but while end doors help create a better atmosphere for longer-distance travel, they do slow down boarding and alighting, because it's further from the entrance to the seats.

 

[J-2739]

Let's hope the Flirt trains have a better interior than these ones. Looks more like the inside of a portacabin.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stadler_FLIRT_EMU_interior.JPG

I don't know, I actually like that interior, very modern and fresh. I dislike the 3+2 seats however...

 

[hwl]

By InterCity EMUs, do you mean ones with end doors? The only such EMUs are Class 444. I don't find the seats particularly comfortable, though others do, but I think they ride very smoothly. It should be possible to provide more comfortable seats in any new train, if the ROSCO is prepared to pay for them and the TOC is prepared to pay a slightly higher leasing cost.

Will there be a version of the Aventra with end doors? I haven't seen any information about that so far, but while end doors help create a better atmosphere for longer-distance travel, they do slow down boarding and alighting, because it's further from the entrance to the seats.

Given some of the promised journey time improvements (on the majority not the Norwich in 90 specials) I suspect a good portion will have come from dwell time reduction.

 

[J-2739]

Terrible reputation for coming apart in crashes if nothing else. See Meridian and the Italian one, the Dutch Flirt v Tractor...

Well, if over 1,000 units were ordered since 2004, there must be something good about them.

 

[Wolfie]

Agreed. We were already asking where the 319s which Northern weren't taking on would go but now there's 100 x 321s and 322s available and they aren't even the most attractive electric cascade option as there's 360s and 379s available.

379s to C2C? It would make sense. Aren't the 387s only there for a shortish (2019?) time?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know, I actually like that interior, very modern and fresh. I dislike the 3+2 seats however...

The 3+2 ones are very, very wide. I'd expect the UK variant to be 2+2 as I think all Swiss narrow gauge ones are.
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By InterCity EMUs, do you mean ones with end doors? The only such EMUs are Class 444. I don't find the seats particularly comfortable, though others do, but I think they ride very smoothly. It should be possible to provide more comfortable seats in any new train, if the ROSCO is prepared to pay for them and the TOC is prepared to pay a slightly higher leasing cost.

Will there be a version of the Aventra with end doors? I haven't seen any information about that so far, but while end doors help create a better atmosphere for longer-distance travel, they do slow down boarding and alighting, because it's further from the entrance to the seats.

Ever been on a Scottish Desiro? They feel very InterCity with the long, all-facing-seated centre section despite only being used on stopping services.

 

[hwl]

379s to C2C? It would make sense. Aren't the 387s only there for a shortish (2019?) time?

Does the C2C franchise agreement say new additional stock or additional stock?

 

[43074]

Thinking about it, it would make sense for the 660 Aventra vehicles to replace the 317/321 & 360 sets - as 165 4-car sets, then the 383 Stadler vehicles could be split 30 10-car sets for Stansted Express & Norwich and 10 2-car and 21 3-car sets for Regional services. Of course it's all speculation at the moment and I'm sure things will become clear over the next few weeks/months.

 

[BuryBlue]

If ordering bi-modes it could be because Abellio will replace some DMU Ipswich-x/y/z and reinstate through Liverpool St trains.

Or just future proofing in case electrification ends up happening.

As a side note, Abellio East Anglia doesn't sound particularly good, it has to be said. They could have had Great Eastern Railway... Anglia Railways... or even Greater Anglia!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

If ordering bi-modes it could be because Abellio will replace some DMU Ipswich-x/y/z and reinstate through Liverpool St trains.

Or just future proofing in case electrification ends up happening.

Cambridge to Norwich and Ipswich is tentatively planned as the final part of East-West Rail, and there's always been interest in Lowestoft and Great Yarmouth, which would be a relatively easy project with the forthcoming resignalling.

It's less of 'if' and more about 'when' but there's such flexibility with bi-mode that work can be done as and when.

 

[chris11256]

Does the C2C franchise agreement say new additional stock or additional stock?

17 new trains.

The small amount of 387s will go when the new stock arrives in 2019.

 

[Haydn1971]

Thinking about it, it would make sense for the 660 Aventra vehicles to replace the 317/321 & 360 sets - as 165 4-car sets, then the 383 Stadler vehicles could be split 30 10-car sets for Stansted Express & Norwich and 10 2-car and 21 3-car sets for Regional services. Of course it's all speculation at the moment and I'm sure things will become clear over the next few weeks/months.

Those numbers do add up... Currently 161x 4 car units 317/321/360, plus 30x 4 car 379 according to Wikipedia numbers... Stadler are known for making small specialised fleets, so these are unlikely to be 383 units of the same design and use.

 

[Wivenswold]

One stock for all inner suburbans would make sense in terms of contingency planning especially for Ilford. A bit dull for spotters though.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Flirt bi-modes for Italy (which I think is the only similar order) are the ones with a central diesel power-pack inserted in an otherwise electric MU.
They are also articulated, have low floors and a single set of doors each side.
That suggests you/staff won't be able to access the full length of the unit.
Maybe the UK version will be a bit more "normal", like CAF's Civity for Northern compared to its continental version.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/..._list[]=stadler&sword_list[]=aosta&no_cache=1

 

[BuryBlue]

Cambridge to Norwich and Ipswich is tentatively planned as the final part of East-West Rail, and there's always been interest in Lowestoft and Great Yarmouth, which would be a relatively easy project with the forthcoming resignalling.

It's less of 'if' and more about 'when' but there's such flexibility with bi-mode that work can be done as and when.

Good point.

 

[CosherB]

A bit dull for spotters though.

I doubt that was foremost in the thoughts of the DfT, Abellio EA etc etc..... :roll:

 

[deltic]

Has there been any indication of level of premium Abellio are paying? I seem to recall this normally gets quoted at award.

 

[northwichcat]

Has there been any indication of level of premium Abellio are paying? I seem to recall this normally gets quoted at award.

I don't think it's normally announced on the day of the award but usually later on when additional information is released.

 

[jw]

Has there been any indication of level of premium Abellio are paying? I seem to recall this normally gets quoted at award.

RAIL reporting £3.7bn over 9 years.

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[Dave1987]

Well overall I think it's very good. Abellio have been pretty good over the last few years considering what the DFT gave them to play with in the two 2 year direct awards. They couldn't do much and I believe they did as much as they could, despite the people who claim they have been the worst etc etc. Everyone seems to believe their line is the worst.

I'm also very happy Bombardier have won the massive contract to build the fleet or the majority of it anyway. These trains will be built in the UK. Stops orders going off to Italy!

 

[scott118]

RAIL reporting £3.7bn over 9 years.

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Or is that £2.2 bn, with the government, cash back scheme?