General Election 2017: The Results and Aftermath

[AlterEgo]

£1bn has been spent to give Britain a government, not to keep May in power - she will be gone just as soon as someone can find a way of doing it smoothly.

Maybe the result wouldn't have happened if a few more people had thought through the wider implications of their vote.

And of course any Corbyn coalition would face the same issues, the DUP are still the kingmakers, but with more parties involved.

Someone in my office said today "well done all the clever youngsters, you've just cost us £1bn".

A mess all round.

People don't understand the immense democratic deficit in the UK. The election was decided by 75 votes as demonstrated in another thread. For someone in your office to blame young people for the DUP deal happening is mad! One could equally claim that if EVERY young person voted (pigs may fly, etc) then the DUP deal wouldn't happen because we might have ended up with a Labour majority!

I genuinely and particularly welcome the idea that people are thinking the deal has cost "us" £1bn, like we are sending the money out of the UK or something. It's just another example of how Northern Ireland is only nominally a part of the UK, and is neither culturally relevant or present in the national consciousness of the average English person. I've found that a knowledge or interest in Northern Irish affairs is a very niche pursuit amongst people born in England in a way that doesn't quite apply to Wales or Scotland.

 

[northwichcat]

People don't understand the immense democratic deficit in the UK. The election was decided by 75 votes as demonstrated in another thread. For someone in your office to blame young people for the DUP deal happening is mad! One could equally claim that if EVERY young person voted (pigs may fly, etc) then the DUP deal wouldn't happen because we might have ended up with a Labour majority!

Indeed. You could also argue if 16/17 years had been given a vote in the EU referendum in 2016, then in 2018 there wouldn't be 700,000 eligible to vote in a General Election for the first time angry that they didn't get a say on the EU referendum. I imagine if 16/17 years had been given a vote in the EU referendum and Remain won, that same person would be complaining about 'bloody young people not letting us leave the EU.'

 

[AlterEgo]

Indeed. You could also argue if 16/17 years had been given a vote in the EU referendum in 2016, then in 2018 there wouldn't be 700,000 eligible to vote in a General Election for the first time angry that they didn't get a say on the EU referendum. I imagine if 16/17 years had been given a vote in the EU referendum and Remain won, that same person would be complaining about 'bloody young people not letting us leave the EU.'

Sometimes I think that Western democracy is on its last legs. I genuinely think that.

 

[RichmondCommu]

£1bn has been spent to give Britain a government, not to keep May in power - she will be gone just as soon as someone can find a way of doing it smoothly.

Maybe the result wouldn't have happened if a few more people had thought through the wider implications of their vote.

And of course any Corbyn coalition would face the same issues, the DUP are still the kingmakers, but with more parties involved.

Someone in my office said today "well done all the clever youngsters, you've just cost us £1bn".

A mess all round.

Actually it's well done arrogant Mrs May for calling an election when she had a perfectly workable majority.

 

[HSTEd]

Someone in my office said today "well done all the clever youngsters, you've just cost us £1bn".

How dare the layabout youngsters question the dear leader and her eternal right to rule?!

[And yes this is sarcasm]

 

[WelshBluebird]

Someone in my office said today "well done all the clever youngsters, you've just cost us £1bn".

What?

So it isn't the fault of the person who called the election? Or the fault of the people in charge of "making a deal" (who could have said no)? Or the fault of those who voted for the DUP (which has put them in the this position where they have 10 MP's who can make the difference)?

I swear some people just love to hate younger generations for no reason.

 

[bramling]

How dare the layabout youngsters question the dear leader and her eternal right to rule?!

[And yes this is sarcasm]

Why the close connection to Theresa May? She is a transient politician who has come and will at some point go. Any leader would have sought the same deal. One way or another Britain needs a government to be formed; the first thought that went through my mind when I saw the exit poll was "DUP".

There have already been financial implications for the UK as a whole, let's hope there won't also be implications further down the line for stability in Northern Ireland. I'm yet to speak to anyone who is pleased about the DUP's involvement - the best reaction I've had is "so be it". Likewise I think any deal involving the likes of SNP or PC would have been even more unsavoury, assuming numbers could have somehow been made to add up which I think was pretty much impossible - without the DUP!

 

[Busaholic]

It will be divided out by the NI Executive, which I strongly suspect will return this week, so it will be unlikely to be benefitting DUP constituencies alone.

Sinn Fein have cautiously welcomed the money, I understand, although not, of course, the reasons for it being granted in the first place. I wonder whether some dialogue has been taking place between the two parties, all non-attributable of course.

 

[Dave1987]

£1bn has been spent to give Britain a government, not to keep May in power - she will be gone just as soon as someone can find a way of doing it smoothly.

Maybe the result wouldn't have happened if a few more people had thought through the wider implications of their vote.

And of course any Corbyn coalition would face the same issues, the DUP are still the kingmakers, but with more parties involved.

Someone in my office said today "well done all the clever youngsters, you've just cost us £1bn".

A mess all round.

No £1bn has been spent to prop up May and her cabinet full of right wing extremists. Her and her cabinet are a bunch of chancers and are power hungry. They did not need to give the DUP a £1bn bung. All they needed to do was get some moderate Labour MPs and the Lib Dems on side by coming into the centre ground.

 

[Dave1987]

Why the close connection to Theresa May? She is a transient politician who has come and will at some point go. Any leader would have sought the same deal. One way or another Britain needs a government to be formed; the first thought that went through my mind when I saw the exit poll was "DUP".

There have already been financial implications for the UK as a whole, let's hope there won't also be implications further down the line for stability in Northern Ireland. I'm yet to speak to anyone who is pleased about the DUP's involvement - the best reaction I've had is "so be it". Likewise I think any deal involving the likes of SNP or PC would have been even more unsavoury, assuming numbers could have somehow been made to add up which I think was pretty much impossible - without the DUP!

Seeing what is happening under May right now, had she got a massive majority I think it would be utterly terrifying to be British. Workers rights? You could have kissed goodbye to any.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Why the close connection to Theresa May? She is a transient politician who has come and will at some point go. Any leader would have sought the same deal. One way or another Britain needs a government to be formed; the first thought that went through my mind when I saw the exit poll was "DUP".

I'm not convinced the bolded bit is true. There is clearly unease at the deal amongst some Conservative MPs, and there has been talk in some quarters of the deal not having been necessary at all because the DUP were never in a million years going to do anything to put Jeremy Corbyn in power, and therefore they would end up supporting the Conservatives in key votes whether or not there was a deal. Perhaps a wiser Conservative leader would have sought to forge ahead without a deal, relying more on consensus for less important Parliamentary votes.

 

[bramling]

I'm not convinced the bolded bit is true. There is clearly unease at the deal amongst some Conservative MPs, and there has been talk in some quarters of the deal not having been necessary at all because the DUP were never in a million years going to do anything to put Jeremy Corbyn in power, and therefore they would end up supporting the Conservatives in key votes whether or not there was a deal. Perhaps a wiser Conservative leader would have sought to forge ahead without a deal, relying more on consensus for less important Parliamentary votes.

Who knows?!

Presumably the biggest risk with running a minority government is simply that it would be inherently risky and unstable. All very well potentially relying on Labour moderates for example, but what would happen if for example the leadership take exception to this and threatened the MPs with deselection?

One suspects the DUP deal was the first option on the table simply because of the familiarity with Cameron's 2010-15 arrangement, for which history has generally returned a moderately favourable verdict. One presumes the Lib-Dems might have been a more favourable choice, however this time it simply wasn't a viable option for various reasons.

We shall have to wait and see how things pan out. It's a depressing situation for sure, although unfortunately I think it may prove to have been the least-worst option available. A Corbyn-led coalition certainly would have faced the same plus bigger challenges.

The only consolation is that at least the social care proposals seem to have fallen by the wayside - I don't know anyone who liked these proposals, and for all we know it may well have been this policy which lost May her majority.

 

[northwichcat]

Given not all Conservatives agree on Brexit surely trying to agree a compromise with Labour is the best option, rather than letting "We're better than you" attitudes ruin the country for a generation.

 

[Railops]

Seeing what is happening under May right now, had she got a massive majority I think it would be utterly terrifying to be British. Workers rights? You could have kissed goodbye to any.

So you reckon had the Tories got in with a large majority ALL workers rights would have been abolished, quite ridiculous even from you.

 

[Tetchytyke]

£1bn has been spent to give Britain a government, not to keep May in power

Nonsense, it is possible to have a minority government, it just requires humility and compromise.

Theresa May has neither of these qualities, so she's had to throw enormous wedges of taxpayer cash at small parties to buy their support.

Any leader would have sought the same deal.

John Major was in a similar position with a minority Government but didn't prostrate himself.

The DUP wouldn't have voted alongside Labour/SNP, so bribing them was completely unnecessary.

So you reckon had the Tories got in with a large majority ALL workers rights would have been abolished

Workers rights have largely been abolished due to the massive fees charged by the Employment Tribunal. Paper rights are worthless if you can't enforce them.

The Tories promised to increase ET fees further.

The paper they released, written by the boss of Wonga, on abolishing all employment rights for people who haven't been with an employer for two years might have been buried, but it has not been forgotten.

 

[northwichcat]

John Major was in a similar position with a minority Government but didn't prostrate himself.

Indeed. Major actually looked at the option of working with the DUP and concluded it would do a lot of long term harm for a few short term gains.

The paper they released, written by the boss of Wonga, on abolishing all employment rights for people who haven't been with an employer for two years might have been buried, but it has not been forgotten.

Oh yes lose your employment rights for a few shares in a business that might not even be around in a few years time, using John Lewis as an example of why that would work. :roll:

 

[Dave1987]

So you reckon had the Tories got in with a large majority ALL workers rights would have been abolished, quite ridiculous even from you.

Yup! The right wing extremists in the Tory party seem to have been emboldened under May. She has several in her cabinet. They want to rip up human rights laws and want to ban any kind of industrial action. One backbench Tory MP said a while back that he believed the right to withdraw your labour should be abolished and workers should only be allowed to put in overtime bans. Considering virtually all overtime is optional that amounts to a complete ban on any industrial action at all. There is only one reason you would even consider doing that and that is if you wished to abolish lots of working conditions and have little resistance to it. The Tories under May are an extremely dangerous party. Thank goodness they don't have a massive majority.

Remember the Government is only bothered about the exploitative 'gig' economy because they feel they are not getting enough tax from it. They could not care less about the workforce sorry "contractors" being exploited.

Economic incompetence and ideology of the extreme left is fairly unpalatable but it's far far better than the cruel ideology of the far right.

 

[DarloRich]

So you reckon had the Tories got in with a large majority ALL workers rights would have been abolished, quite ridiculous even from you.

No need to do away with rights. Just make it impossible for many people to enforce those rights.

Ramp up the employment tribunal fees and reduce further the time frame for you to mount any claim. They then make it easier for the employer to delay/frustrate that process eating into your available time etc etc.

 

[D365]

The one thing I don't understand is, just how is she allowed to spend this taxpayer money?

 

[berneyarms]

The one thing I don't understand is, just how is she allowed to spend this taxpayer money?

There will have to be a vote in parliament at some point - that will approve the additional funding for NI.

That's democracy for you!

 

[northwichcat]

There will have to be a vote in parliament at some point - that will approve the additional funding for NI.

That's democracy for you!

Do the ferry workers and airline workers fancy going on strike to leave the DUP stuck in Belfast?

 

[berneyarms]

Do the ferry workers and airline workers fancy going on strike to leave the DUP stuck in Belfast?

I doubt it - they rely on the NI economy for their jobs!

 

[Busaholic]

There will have to be a vote in parliament at some point - that will approve the additional funding for NI.

That's democracy for you!

So you bribe ten people and, because those ten people can vote in favour of the bribe, democracy is served You couldn't make it up.

 

[bramling]

The one thing I don't understand is, just how is she allowed to spend this taxpayer money?

Because she will now have a majority and thus (presumably) the spending will be voted through parliament at some point.

It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, but it is not really any different from governments spending disproportionately in their own or marginal constituencies - something governments are often accused of.

 

[bramling]

Given not all Conservatives agree on Brexit surely trying to agree a compromise with Labour is the best option, rather than letting "We're better than you" attitudes ruin the country for a generation.

That may happen anyway, as you say not all Conservatives agree on Brexit - Kenneth Clarke for one is quite likely to vote against any form of Brexit.

However many Labour MPs remain in favour of Brexit, not least because their constituents voted for it. Amazingly we don't really know what the Labour leadership's true Brexit position is.

 

[bramling]

Nonsense, it is possible to have a minority government, it just requires humility and compromise.

But can be voted down more or less at any time the opposition parties feel like it - thus is inherently unstable.

Theresa May has neither of these qualities, so she's had to throw enormous wedges of taxpayer cash at small parties to buy their support.

As has been pointed out, any Labour-led coalition would have faced the same challenges - if not much more so.

John Major was in a similar position with a minority Government but didn't prostrate himself.

Major's government is generally regarded as having been a complete disaster.

The DUP wouldn't have voted alongside Labour/SNP, so bribing them was completely unnecessary.

Risky.

 

[HSTEd]

Whilst the DUP would not normally consider doing anything that might put Jeremy Corbyn in Number 10, it is not inconcievable that JEremy could offer somethng that would be so valuable to the Unionist cause that they would accept him. At least for a couple of years.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst the DUP would not normally consider doing anything that might put Jeremy Corbyn in Number 10, it is not inconcievable that JEremy could offer somethng that would be so valuable to the Unionist cause that they would accept him. At least for a couple of years.

Now that is a point to ponder over. I wonder whatever dramatic it would be that you say would make the DUP consider such a Corbyn proposal, notwithstanding the fact that he would be seen by the Labour Party in a bad light for making deals with DUP.

I only say this after reading the expressed views concerning the DUP by Labour Party supporters in this particular thread.

 

[DarloRich]

Whilst the DUP would not normally consider doing anything that might put Jeremy Corbyn in Number 10, it is not inconcievable that JEremy could offer somethng that would be so valuable to the Unionist cause that they would accept him. At least for a couple of years.

Now that is a point to ponder over. I wonder whatever dramatic it would be that you say would make the DUP consider such a Corbyn proposal, notwithstanding the fact that he would be seen by the Labour Party in a bad light for making deals with DUP.

I only say this after reading the expressed views concerning the DUP by Labour Party supporters in this particular thread.

it might be tough considering his stance on a united Ireland...................

 

[AlterEgo]

it is not inconcievable that JEremy could offer somethng that would be so valuable to the Unionist cause that they would accept him.

Like what?