George Osborne in first class with standard ticket?

[bb21]

Agreed, he did the right thing getting Osborne to cough up. But on reflection, he'd have been better evading the reporter's question. Easier said than done in the excitement of the moment

The right thing would have been to do him for a Byelaw 18 offence, or even a RoRA charge if he refused to pay.

 

[jon0844]

I do think that it's getting a bit stupid already - goodness knows how this will be talked about in the papers over the weekend and in the house on Monday!

I see the BBC has been a lot more diplomatic as it's only one person who has said there was any form of argument - and it seems it was the aide moaning - so they've pretty much stripped all of that out of the news and just said he was made to pay a supplement (which in itself makes it sound like the most pointless story reported on TV ever!).

Where's the evidence that George Osborne was abusive? Let's not let this story get any more out of hand!!

https://twitter.com/atbirch/status/259319039774568448

 

[Stats]

Where's the evidence that George Osborne was abusive? Let's not let this story get any more out of hand!!

Spoilsport.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/oct/19/george-osborne-inspector-train-ticket

A spokesman for Virgin Trains said: "The chancellor was in first class with a standard-class ticket. It wasn't a dispute or even a discussion with him. An aide of his spoke to the train manager and asked to pay the upgrade. We're not aware of any dispute."

He said the total paid was £189.50, but said it was unclear whether that was the price of an upgrade, or whether Osborne had had to pay for an entirely new ticket.

 

[island]

£189.50 would be the cost of an FOS.

 

[LexyBoy]

Exclusive to all newspapers:
"Virgin were today praised/lambasted for treating chancellor George Osbourne as any other passenger/a common criminal rather than pandering to celebrity culture/paying the respect due to a servant of his country.

The chancellor disputed/paid immediately the fare due/fine imposed. One commentator our reporter spoke to said 'this is the sort of even handed/jobsworthish action that is bound to ensure Virgin keep/lose the lucrative West Coast franchise'"

 

[Realfish]

Shadow Cabinet Office minister Michael Dugher said:

"Another day, another demonstration of how out of touch this Government is.

"Just like Andrew Mitchell, George Osborne obviously thinks it's one rule for him and another for the plebs he's so keen to sit apart from. So much for 'we're all in it together'."



err....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xWrC5lZpP4


At least Osborne didn't have the antimacassars removed to pretend he was travelling standard.

Dontcha just love our political class? God help us.

 

[PR1Berske]

 

[sidmouth]

See BBC news
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20008342

 

[jon0844]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-10-19/osborne-not-aware-of-any-row-with-ticket-officer/

The Treasury has told ITV News the Chancellor had a diary change and he and his aide got a different train. They say that their existing seat reservations did not apply.

The train was crowded so they decided to upgrade from standard class to first class and they always intended to pay the difference.

It says the Chancellor is not aware of any row with a ticket officer.

This really is turning into a total non-story by the minute! It's even calling in to question the original Tweets and if they were in any way exaggerated, especially if the reporter was in a different carriage.

 

[LexyBoy]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-10-19/osborne-not-aware-of-any-row-with-ticket-officer/



This really is turning into a total non-story by the minute!

Quite. As so often with stories originating from Twitter.

Was it not our beloved leader who wisely said "too many twits make a tw*t?"

 

[Monty]

Exclusive to all newspapers:
"Virgin were today praised/lambasted for treating chancellor George Osbourne as any other passenger/a common criminal rather than pandering to celebrity culture/paying the respect due to a servant of his country.

The chancellor disputed/paid immediately the fare due/fine imposed. One commentator our reporter spoke to said 'this is the sort of even handed/jobsworthish action that is bound to ensure Virgin keep/lose the lucrative West Coast franchise'"

x2
I find it hilarious that people are demanding that Osborne be given the gallows without knowing the full facts of the matter. Had it been been a member of joe public the headline may have read "Jobsworth ticket inspector fines passenger for sitting in first of a packed train..." etc etc :roll:

 

[crewmeal]

Well we all know what to do in 2015 don't we?

 

[jon0844]

I find it hilarious that people are demanding that Osborne be given the gallows without knowing the full facts of the matter. Had it been been a member of joe public the headline wouldn't have read "Jobsworth ticket inspector fines passenger for sitting in first of a packed train..." etc etc :roll:

Exactly. It's quite bizarre.

It also seems increasingly likely that people on the train were so desperate to Tweet a story that was far more controversial/sensational than was actual reality and possible exaggerated, or downright lied.

The BBC report pretty much kills it for good, but will presumably remain to clarify things for all the people that think George Osborn stormed into First Class, told the TM to f**k off and refused to budge. Look on Twitter and 99% of the Tweets are calling George a tw*t (or worse) and attacking the Tories for being out of touch, too good for the rest of us etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20008342

To me, this is GREAT news for train managers who can now use this as a perfect example of why you wouldn't let people like George Osborne off, so why you? Try arguing against that!

 

[wintonian]

First Class single fares are £189.50 on the day for Wilmslow-London. Some Advance tickets for standard class are around £30 so the difference is around £160.

The BBC article says he got a later train than intended and did not have a reservation, which mean he couldn't have been on an AP, and therefore seems irrelevant to the story but it helps our curiosity.

 

[38Cto15E]

Guys, why let the truth get in the way of a good story?

 

[jon0844]

If it had been an advance, it would have been totally invalid so it is worth reporting for the benefit of those calling for him to be fined for not having a ticket. Can't you upgrade a standard open ticket?

 

[Deerfold]

The BBC article says he got a later train than intended and did not have a reservation, which mean he couldn't have been on an AP, and therefore seems irrelevant to the story but it helps our curiosity.

Though if he didn't have an AP, £160 is a very large excess. If he did he seems to have been let off lightly.

EDIT: Works much better if that's the price for 2 tickets of course.

 

[exile]

There have been reports in the Fares forum here of passengers being "done" even for standing in First Class.

OK, we can wait for the official version - but we still don't know what Mitchell said to the police.....

 

[RYS]

Well Andrew Mitchell has just resigned over the "plebs" incident, no doubt timed to take the pressure off Osborne over this. The Osborne thing is rapdily moving down the page on the news sites. Funny to see how these things work.

 

[Eagle]

Well Andrew Mitchell has just resigned over the "plebs" incident, no doubt timed to take the pressure off Osborne over this. The Osborne thing is rapdily moving down the page on the news sites. Funny to see how these things work.

Here are more examples of precisely the same sort of thing.

 

[jopsuk]

talking of examples of this sort of thing, he's done this before. In May

 

[table38]

Perhaps Osborne didn't know he was in First Class as someone had removed all the First Class antimacassars like they did for Ed

 

[northwichcat]

The BBC article says he got a later train than intended and did not have a reservation, which mean he couldn't have been on an AP, and therefore seems irrelevant to the story but it helps our curiosity.

According to his aid's Twitter account earlier she purchased a standard class ticket by accidentally pressing the wrong button*. She later removed that comment, possibly because it was a lie?

The BBC and her Twitter account can't both be correct can they?

* Maybe on a ticket machine or maybe when booking online.

Original tweets: http://twitpic.com/b5kdau

 

[Starmill]

Well Andrew Mitchell has just resigned over the "plebs" incident, no doubt timed to take the pressure off Osborne over this. The Osborne thing is rapdily moving down the page on the news sites. Funny to see how these things work.

Aha! I thought that timing rather coincidental too! Buggers.

The thing is, if he wasn't on advances, could he not have avoided this whole business by getting his ticket excessed before boarding?

 

[jopsuk]

Perhaps Osborne didn't know he was in First Class as someone had removed all the First Class antimacassars like they did for Ed

that's apparently common practice when a politician is being interviwed on a train- they want to give the impression that they don't travel 1st class, but there's more space for the camera crew there. Ed is definitely not unique there!

 

[tbtc]

A few thoughts:

This seems to be a good news story for the railway (Staff correctly apply rules) rather than the bad news one that it might have been ("just shows what a rip off tickets are - he could have flown to New York for £160")

This really is bad news for Osbourne (regardless of what was actually said) - people maybe can't relate to the complexities of fiscal stimulus/ neo-endogenous growth theory etc... but we *can* relate to people "dodging" fares. That's the reason why the expenses scandal caught the public imagination - people could understand the "floating duck islands"/ getting free Sky telly even if they couldn't tell you the difference between RPI and CPI. This is *real*

Glad this has happened after the WCML franchise has settled down, and not in the middle of the debates about First v Virgin

Interesting to compare/ contrast the "It's an outrage" / "it was a silly misunderstanding" comments online with the Cherie Blair/Booth tale a decade ago (fined a tenner for having an incorrect Thameslink ticket to Luton - no indication Osbourne was *fined* though). I wonder how many people changed their view between the two cases depending on whether they were red or blue?

 

[12CSVT]

One point regarding the Cherie Blair case was that the ticket inspector involved was portrayed as some sort of 'Hitler' by some elements of the tabloid gutter press. The following day's S*n not only named the inspector (who had acted correctly), but also had a close up picture of him on the front page.

Hopefully the TM in the George Osbourne case won't be subjected to such disgraceful treatment.

 

[table38]

Interesting to compare/ contrast the "It's an outrage" / "it was a silly misunderstanding" comments online with the Cherie Blair/Booth tale a decade ago (fined a tenner for having an incorrect Thameslink ticket to Luton - no indication Osbourne was *fined* though). I wonder how many people changed their view between the two cases depending on whether they were red or blue?

Funnily enough, a similar story about a Labour MP back in 2011 reported being abusive to a member of Hull Trains staff didn't make it into the papers at all.

 

[jon0844]

I am hoping to go by the facts, not political allegiance. But I know that Twitter proves people are quite obviously using this as an excuse to attack the Tories, with some rather hateful comments.

If they had standard class tickets, boarded a later (or earlier) train that meant they lost their reservations and opted to upgrade on the train - they can, can't they? I mean, most people would get outraged at the extra cost, but they paid.

The only reason it is a story is that it was implied that there was a big argument and the staff were abused as they both said 'Don't you know who we are' and were pointing out how they couldn't be in standard.

Now, if the aide DID say they couldn't go in standard - and given the fact they had standard class tickets with reserved seats - doesn't anyone now think that she meant they couldn't go in standard as there wasn't room - as against mixing with the plebs?

If it now appears that they went into first class, asked to upgrade, perhaps commented on the high cost but then paid - it's a total non story.

But if people try and imagine the situation being different and use their own imagination to picture what he said or did, because they have a view that he's a toff that isn't one of us - then let's continue to believe he should have been done for fare evasion and abusing the staff.

What gets me is that if we just allow people to make up stuff in order to attack people, knowing that people will likely believe it because of their own prejudices, then it's very dangerous ground. It's fine to laugh when it's someone you don't like or agree with, but what about when it's someone you do like, or know, or might even one day BE you?

 

[northwichcat]

I think the story is becoming a little clearer now.

Rachel Townsend at the end of Granada Reports said the ticket inspector had finished checking tickets in First Class and had moved to the first standard class carriage, when Ramesh Chhabra approached the ticket inspector pleading to let him let George stay in first class as she purchased the wrong ticket for him. The ticket inspector asked for around £190 (obviously she mistyped on her Twitter account) which she reluctantly paid.

On the other hand Ramesh Chhabra claims the ticket inspector hadn't yet checked tickets in First Class and had started checking tickets in the middle of the train and denied that they had already had a disagreement with the ticket inspector before paying for the upgrade.

Seems fairly clear now?
No. There's now a new claim from an unnamed Virgin Trains spokesperson that Ramesh Chhabra originally claimed she was a police officer accompanying George and didn't need a ticket, to try and get away with only having one First Class ticket, which sounds worst than the original accusation.