Getting home on Southern

[Coolzac]

Hi all,

Yesterday I was travelling Chiswick-Durrington. I was due to get the 21.29 from Chiswick to Clapham Junction and then change onto the train to Durrington. However, due to all the horrendous disruption yesterday with trains in and out of Waterloo we ended up getting to CLJ at 23.15. We managed to get the last train to Worthing which was getting in at 00.48. There were no further trains to Durrington.

I spoke with the Conductor/OBS who was on the train about sorting out a taxi to Durrington and he claimed there was nothing he could do. I asked him who could help me do this. He said 'no-one'. I told him that I thought the train companies had a responsibility to get me home to my destination. He claimed they didn't and refused to help in any way. I asked him what would happen if I was an 11 year old trying to get home, and he said the only option would be to call the police!

Is he right? Do the train companies have no responsibility to get passengers to their final destination?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi all,

Yesterday I was travelling Chiswick-Durrington. I was due to get the 21.29 from Chiswick to Clapham Junction and then change onto the train to Durrington. However, due to all the horrendous disruption yesterday with trains in and out of Waterloo we ended up getting to CLJ at 23.15. We managed to get the last train to Worthing which was getting in at 00.48. There were no further trains to Durrington.

I spoke with the Conductor/OBS who was on the train about sorting out a taxi to Durrington and he claimed there was nothing he could do. I asked him who could help me do this. He said 'no-one'. I told him that I thought the train companies had a responsibility to get me home to my destination. He claimed they didn't and refused to help in any way. I asked him what would happen if I was an 11 year old trying to get home, and he said the only option would be to call the police!

Is he right? Do the train companies have no responsibility to get passengers to their final destination?

Condition 28.2 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel obligates any Train Company that reasonably can do so, to arrange onwards transportation and/or overnight accomodation (as appropriate) if you are prevented from completed from making your journey due to disruption.

If your itinerary was valid (i.e. you would have arrived at Durrington on or before the last train whilst respecting minimum change times) then, assuming there weren't exceptional circumstances which prevented the train company from helping you (e.g. there were no taxis at all, or there was freak weather), in my view this was a breach of contract and you are entitled to recover whatever reasonable costs you incurred in arranging onward transport and/or overnight accomodation (as appropriate).

You would also be eligible to claim Delay Repay for the delay caused to your journey, on top.

If you would like to draft a letter requesting that the relevant train company reimburse you your costs, and to claim Delay Repay, I am sure the forum members here would be more than happy to make suggestions/proof read it.

 

[Hadders]

Totally unacceptable from the OBS. Please do take this up with GTR (who operate Southern branded trains) as this attitude needs to be stamped out.

 

[gazthomas]

Railfuture say the train company is obliged to get you home: https://www.railfuture.org.uk/Cancelled+or+missed+connection+with+last+train

 

[superalbs]

Good luck!

GTR are extremely obstructive when it comes to this issue, and left me stranded at Hove.

Thankfully I was able to get home via another route (at a cost to me), but it was finally all fully refunded after ten weeks.

Even the online support team don't seem to understand that they're actually meant to get you where you want to go.

Hopefully you'll see your due money this year, but don't be surprised if you have to fight for it.

 

[bb21]

Send the taxi receipt to SWR and explain that the Southern OBS refused to help so you had to pay it out of your own pocket. It's 3 miles so I guess the taxi was about a tenner(?).

Should see this resolved without too much hassle. It's hardly an unusual one.

As for the complaint to Southern, let SWR take it up with them.

 

[Coolzac]

I rang up Southern customer service this evening. They told me that the conductor was wrong. However, when I asked for specific policy on getting passengers home they replied that 'there was no official policy. Cases are dealt with on a case by case basis.' Isn't that terrible? Shouldn't there be an official policy that staff ensure passengers get to their destination?

Also, I asked if there was someway of contacting Southern if there were no staff around late at night. He said that every station has a help point where you can contact Southern Control 24/7. Is this true? If it is, again why did the OBS/Conductor not know about it?

Either way, they have said that the incident will be logged and staff will receive training on this issue. Let's hope so!

 

[causton]

Yes, any help point should be able to get you in touch with Southern to book a taxi, and any traincrew and staff at Southern-served stations should have the number for Southern control. I have ordered taxis for stranded Southern passengers a few times before and it is not very hard, so unsure why the OBS/conductor knew. Very poor show.

 

[CentralTrainer]

I rang up Southern customer service this evening. They told me that the conductor was wrong. However, when I asked for specific policy on getting passengers home they replied that 'there was no official policy. Cases are dealt with on a case by case basis.' Isn't that terrible? Shouldn't there be an official policy that staff ensure passengers get to their destination?

Also, I asked if there was someway of contacting Southern if there were no staff around late at night. He said that every station has a help point where you can contact Southern Control 24/7. Is this true? If it is, again why did the OBS/Conductor not know about it?

Either way, they have said that the incident will be logged and staff will receive training on this issue. Let's hope so!

There IS an official policy though - contained in the National Rail Conditions of Travel:

28.2. Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary provide overnight accommodation for you.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Potentially part of the problem here was that the reason for the delay was down to SWR not Southern. In theory presumably Southern should have been charging the cost back to SWR?

 

[AlterEgo]

Potentially part of the problem here was that the reason for the delay was down to SWR not Southern. In theory presumably Southern should have been charging the cost back to SWR?

Doesn’t really matter as any rail company “in a position to help” should organise the transport. Southern were in a position to help (any train company will be, 99% of the time).

 

[Sonadagothalus]

This may be of help to you in claiming back what is owed, helped out quite a few people so far

https://roguetrader1980.wordpress.c...ts-new-is-how-to-sue-and-this-is-how-you-doo/

 

[Haywain]

Doesn’t really matter as any rail company “in a position to help” should organise the transport. Southern were in a position to help (any train company will be, 99% of the time).

That's all very well, but SWR should be footing the bill. There is a valid complaint against Southern for not providing the assistance as they should have done, but I don't believe there is any reason for them to be paying.

 

[35B]

That's all very well, but SWR should be footing the bill. There is a valid complaint against Southern for not providing the assistance as they should have done, but I don't believe there is any reason for them to be paying.

They should, but that should not be the consumer’s concern but a matter for back office settlement between companies.

 

[Haywain]

They should, but that should not be the consumer’s concern but a matter for back office settlement between companies.

Which it would be if Southern had provided a taxi. But they didn't...

 

[farleigh]

This may be of help to you in claiming back what is owed, helped out quite a few people so far

https://roguetrader1980.wordpress.c...ts-new-is-how-to-sue-and-this-is-how-you-doo/

This looks great.

Court action seems better than Delay Repay according to this.

 

[Clip]

There IS an official policy though - contained in the National Rail Conditions of Travel:

28.2. Where disruption prevents you from completing the journey for which your ticket is valid and is being used, any Train Company will, where it reasonably can, provide you with alternative means of travel to your destination, or if necessary provide overnight accommodation for you.

Worth noting the wording here. It doesn't say they *have* to get you home.

This may be of help to you in claiming back what is owed, helped out quite a few people so far

https://roguetrader1980.wordpress.c...ts-new-is-how-to-sue-and-this-is-how-you-doo/

Why go straight down this route when a simple email or call will suffice in the first instance?

 

[35B]

Which it would be if Southern had provided a taxi. But they didn't...

But they were the ones who failed in that interaction.

 

[superalbs]

Why go straight down this route when a simple email or call will suffice in the first instance?

Because it often won't suffice.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Because it often won't suffice.

Whether it will or won't, you have to try first. If you go straight to court, one of the first things you'll be asked is whether you made any attempt to settle out of court - ie writing to complain and asking for a refund. If you have not, you will be sent away without a penny.

 

[superalbs]

Whether it will or won't, you have to try first. If you go straight to court, one of the first things you'll be asked is whether you made any attempt to settle out of court - ie writing to complain and asking for a refund. If you have not, you will be sent away without a penny.

Well I've never taken any company to court, and have no plans to, just adding that GTR are extremely obstructive, and that you'll probably have to fight for even pennies.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Well I've never taken any company to court, and have no plans to, just adding that GTR are extremely obstructive, and that you'll probably have to fight for even pennies.

Not saying you won't. But you must attempt to settle it before court. And that applies to all civil action, HMCTS want as few cases to actually reach a judge as possible

 

[Clip]

Because it often won't suffice.

But that is what you must do first. Courts really don't like you going straight to them.

and to be fair to the docs from my experience and evidence on this forum it's normally sorted first time for the majority of people

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I agree that reasonable attempts should always be made to settle out of Court - otherwise you are at risk of receiving an adverse costs order, or possibly worse. However, IMO this does not extend to waiting months for a TOC to bother to respond (as can be the case in some circumstances), or engaging the chocolate fireguard Transport Focus. If the TOC agrees to arbitration - that's great (though probably more expensive than actual Court!). But if they reject this and only offer Transport Focus, and had no meaningful 'defence', then, if it were me, they could expect to see a County Court claim form in their postbox, pronto.

Debts such as this, unpaid delay compensation (where legally enforceable), unpaid refunds and the like are no different to any other debt. The fact that the debtor is a TOC doesn't excuse them from the normal rules of reclaiming debts, which include giving a satisfactory response to an LBA within 14 days. If the passenger had a UFN/PF the TOC would be hot on the heels of every deadline!

 

[Haywain]

The incident happened on Tuesday night. If the OP has even submitted any claim yet it is far to early to be talking about court action, or even Transport Focus.

 

[Clip]

The incident happened on Tuesday night. If the OP has even submitted any claim yet it is far to early to be talking about court action, or even Transport Focus.

Exactly. However we now have the same advice being posted time and again on here which doesn't really help people solve their issues correctly.

LBA's and court action should only ever be used as the last course of action and not the first as some posters seem hell bent on saying should happen.

 

[Sonadagothalus]

Worth noting the wording here. It doesn't say they *have* to get you home.


Why go straight down this route when a simple email or call will suffice in the first instance?

Did you read the link? First few parts make reference to exhausting all informal options first, it looks to be a full "what if" guide for where to go next if you don't get anywhere.

Do agree with you that you need to call or email first and try but my experiences have been that you just get fobbed off or ignored.

 

[Starmill]

Has the OP actually written to SWR to explain what happened, request a payment for their costs and also whatever Delay Repay compensation is due? If they have done so I would have confidence they will get that back without any need for court action.

If they wish to complain separately to Southern about incorrect advice that is also a matter for them but I would say that the first point here is the more important.

 

[Llanigraham]

Worth noting the wording here. It doesn't say they *have* to get you home.

I'm sure one of the Admin staff will confirm the legislation, but I understood they only had to get you to the station where your ticket was to.

 

[Coolzac]

Just to help everyone out-

As mentioned before in a previous post on this thread I have contacted Southern Customer Service, who partly explained things but have also opened up a case. I have also claimed delay repay from SWR who caused the delay. Thankfully I got a taxi with someone else going to Durrington who paid for it and will claim for the cost the it from SWR. I have yet to hear back from either Southern or SWR. I will update the thread when this happens.