Glasgow Subway new stock

[Bald Rick]

10am to 6pm is honestly laughable.

Whilst I understand the need for engineering works, is it really necessary to have such short opening hours on a Sunday?

After all, the London Underground has a similar need for engineering work, and yet they can manage with only slightly reduced hours on a Sunday, with services starting about an hour later and finishing an hour earlier.

Surely something like 8am to 10pm ought to be possible in Glasgow on a Sunday, and whilst that would entail more than one shift, the subway is there to serve the people of Glasgow, and should be open for as long as there is sufficient demand.

Having spent many a Saturday evening in Glasgow, the chances of almost anyone being in a condition to be up and about before 1000 on Sundays is pretty remote.

 

[pdeaves]

Is the Glasgow Subway there to serve the people of Glasgow, or for the convenience of the staff?

Ultimately, if you need to cover more shifts, you need more people. More people means more wages, etc. that have to come from somewhere. Presumably, someone has assessed the relative merits of employing more people against increased ridership income (and/or raising fares) and decided it isn't worth it.

 

[D6130]

Having spent many a Saturday evening in Glasgow, the chances of almost anyone being in a condition to be up and about before 1000 on Sundays is pretty remote.

Having stayed (lived) in Glasgow for nearly six years in the past, I would agree with you!

 

[Taunton]

Are there any plans to expand the operating hours once all the new trains have been delivered, particularly on Sundays, where 10am to 6pm seems a bit of an anachronism?

Not really an anachronism - the "old" Subway, into the 1970s, ran on Sundays from a slightly later 7am start to normal 11pm finishing time. Timetable attached.

This was when the reduced Sunday frequency, still every 5 minutes so not bad at all, had to be achieved by physically craning out a number of trains, one car at a time. If out-of-hours engineering work was required they then had to crane in the one locomotive and wagons, and run the remaining trains round the circle to keep them out of the way. End of works and this all had to be reversed.

As I've written before I was peripherally involved in the 1970s reconstruction. This was achieved on an absolute shoestring. All the station rebuilds were basically the work of one architect.

 

[Ex-controller]

Isn’t the early Sunday finish about having a consistent time for maintenance and engineering work?

 

[Strathclyder]

It has echos of the Glasgow system itself before it closed for modernisation at the end of the '70s. Breakdowns were frequent, and IIRC the special last day was cancelled when a crack appeared in a wall at platform level at one of the stations.

The complete closure of the system for modernisation in May 1977 was brought forward by 8 days (from the 29th to the 21st of that month) due to cracks appearing on the roof of Govan Cross station (services had been suspended from 24th March to 2nd May that year for this precise reason).

 

[Gostav]

So when will the new train into service and lt seem passengers will be able to sit at the front?

 

[hexagon789]

So when will the new train into service and lt seem passengers will be able to sit at the front?

Eventually passengers will, but not initially during the period the new trains are in in-service but still have a driver.

I believe unmanned mode is slated for mid-2025.

 

[Avenger20]

It's off topic slightly, but can anyone confirm if there are any of the current subway cars that are out of use or retired already? I'm going to make a stab at clearing what I can before they're withdrawn but would be handy to know if there are any that are unobtainable.

 

[hexagon789]

It's off topic slightly, but can anyone confirm if there are any of the current subway cars that are out of use or retired already? I'm going to make a stab at clearing what I can before they're withdrawn but would be handy to know if there are any that are unobtainable.

122 - it was withdrawn, used as a parts donor and scrapped some 5 and a bit years ago now.

The other vehicles are all still serviceable.

 

[sannox]

Ultimately, if you need to cover more shifts, you need more people. More people means more wages, etc. that have to come from somewhere. Presumably, someone has assessed the relative merits of employing more people against increased ridership income (and/or raising fares) and decided it isn't worth it.

I suspect it's this - running on the Sunday times it's shut are unlikely to cover the costs of additional staff and cut down on maintenance time. They do run it early/later when things that generate passengers are on such as Christmas, Great Scottish Run etc.

For most journeys there is usually a fairly effective alternative

 

[Avenger20]

122 - it was withdrawn, used as a parts donor and scrapped some 5 and a bit years ago now.

The other vehicles are all still serviceable.

Thank you for that.

122 was on the required list unfortunately but at least I'll be able to get the rest.

Thanks again

 

[whoosh]

With regard to Sunday opening times, and even the slightly early finish on weekdays - and also the "not as good as it was in years gone by" service:

A lot of housing, and industry, located on the route (particularly the southern half) was demolished or closed down in the late 60s/early 70s.
It's quite a small system, and what it was built for in 18-whatever it was, has changed a lot since.
A 'middle shift' on a Sunday is currently sufficient/cost effective.

In the future, with unmanned trains, it may be possible to run extended hours on Sundays fairly easily by utilising the staff saved from the trains to man the stations with two shifts. There have to be a minimum of two staff at Underground stations to meet fire regulations, I understand (following the King's Cross fire in London in 1987).

 

[hexagon789]

There have to be a minimum of two staff at Underground stations to meet fire regulations, I understand (following the King's Cross fire in London in 1987).

Correct, so that's 30 staff just to open the stations. Add in depot staff and drivers etc and you can understand why the Sunday opening hours are as they are presently.

 

[sannox]

Correct, so that's 30 staff just to open the stations. Add in depot staff and drivers etc and you can understand why the Sunday opening hours are as they are presently.

Indeed and some stations such as West Street are very quiet - there was a period when availability of staff was an issue that West Street would often be closed.

 

[hexagon789]

Indeed and some stations such as West Street are very quiet - there was a period when availability of staff was an issue that West Street would often be closed.

Perhaps that's an alterative; close a couple of the smaller stations in return for longer opening hours overall on Sundays.

 

[Techniquest]

122 - it was withdrawn, used as a parts donor and scrapped some 5 and a bit years ago now.

The other vehicles are all still serviceable.

Thanks! I had that on my wants list, now removed it

Thank you for that.

122 was on the required list unfortunately but at least I'll be able to get the rest.

Thanks again

Also featured on my list, I'll have to make an effort to do some Subway moves when I next visit Glasgow. There's just so much to do up that way that finding time to squeeze in a few hours on the Subway will not be easy!

 

[sannox]

Perhaps that's an alterative; close a couple of the smaller stations in return for longer opening hours overall on Sundays.

You'd still need additional shifts for later opening. Seems easier to wait till new stock is out and running driverless.

Ultimately even when the subway is closed there are only limited journeys that are impacted.

 

[Beebman]

BBC Archive has just released a video of a visit to the system in 1975 by Blue Peter's Peter Purves:

"The only real change since 1896 is the price of a ticket." Peter Purvis takes a wee hurl around the Glasgow Subway ahead of its first major modernisation. Also shown is the ingenious method the Glasgow Underground maintenance depot had in place to repair trains. Originally broadcast 3 February, 1975.

 

[ScotsRail]

Just a hint of St Enoch rail station in the background at the start - typical Blue Peter lies ( ) with the arrival and departure at Buchanan Street at around 3:20 when they come in the station on one circle but the passengers getting off are on the other circle. Interesting to see that when they rebuilt Buchanan Street they moved the stairs to the other end of the platform.

Was on the system yesterday (Kelvinhall, Govan, St Georges Cross and St Enoch) and even now some of the stations look very half finished.

 

[Strathclyder]

Ultimately even when the subway is closed there are only limited journeys that are impacted.

The most notable of them is arguably Govan-Partick, as the Subway is the only direct rail link the two districts have. The alternative public transport links are compartively meandering bus routes via a change in the city centre.

There is a swing bridge currently under construction (slated for completion in 2024 IIRC) linking the two areas (it directly serves the Riverside Museum on the northern river bank) that will at least provide something of an alternative for when the Subway is shut (as part of that bridge project, I'd personally also improve the pedestrian links between the Riverside Museum and Partick proper, but that's neither here or there).

With regard to Sunday opening times, and even the slightly early finish on weekdays - and also the "not as good as it was in years gone by" service:

A lot of housing, and industry, located on the route (particularly the southern half) was demolished or closed down in the late 60s/early 70s.
It's quite a small system, and what it was built for in 18-whatever it was, has changed a lot since.
A 'middle shift' on a Sunday is currently sufficient/cost effective.

In the future, with unmanned trains, it may be possible to run extended hours on Sundays fairly easily by utilising the staff saved from the trains to man the stations with two shifts. There have to be a minimum of two staff at Underground stations to meet fire regulations, I understand (following the King's Cross fire in London in 1987).

A consise explanation of how/why things are the way they are with regards to Sunday opening hours and how the unmanned trains could help change it (though I knew about the housing/industry situation on the southern half of the loop changing markedly in the 60s/70s, why I didn't make the connection in this contexy I don't know; major brain fart moment). Thanks for this.

 

[EMU303]

Subway open until 8pm today for a game at Ibrox which started at 4pm. So they can extend the hours when needed.

 

[Willie Bee]

What's the best way to buy tickets on the Glasgow Subway.

Is there a fare capping system, like in London so I can hop on /off as required.

Are the buses included in any fare capping or would i be better off using the Subway only one day and maybe buses only on other days

I'll be visiting Glasgow with my wife for a few days in early June.

thank you

 

[duncanp]

Have a look at

Tickets | SPT | Strathclyde Partnership for Transport

Find the best ticket for your journey when travelling throughout the West of Scotland. SPT offers a range of tickets designed for regular commuters, tourists, daytripping families, and anyone who wants to explore the region.

www.spt.co.uk

It shows the various ticketing options.

There is an all day ticket for the subway only, and another one for bus, subway and rail.

One of the main bus companies in Glasgow, First Bus, also has a range of day tickets and accepts contactless payments, if you want to travel on the bus only.

FirstDay

The ideal ticket for multiple journeys over one day - available to buy onboard from the driver and on the First Bus App, our FirstDay ticket offers excellent value in comparison to single tickets. In each of the local areas you pay the following FirstDay fares.

www.firstbus.co.uk

 

[sannox]

What's the best way to buy tickets on the Glasgow Subway.

Is there a fare capping system, like in London so I can hop on /off as required.

Are the buses included in any fare capping or would i be better off using the Subway only one day and maybe buses only on other days

I'll be visiting Glasgow with my wife for a few days in early June.

thank you

There is an all day ticket for the subway only, and another one for bus, subway and rail.

There isn't an all-day ticket for bus, subway and rail as far as I know since the daytripper product went. There is a rail and subway ticket for Greater Glasgow for £7.40 but only after 9am on weekdays. To use service buses as well it tends to involve separate tickets. Zonecard exists but that's not designed for visitors and minimum period is 1 week.

To use the First buses the easiest thing to do is pay by debit/credit card using the tap on/tap off capping which will tend to give you cheapest fare, but not linked to rail or subway or other bus operators yet.

To use the Subway, paper tickets are an option (single/return/all-day) but cheapest tickets are on the smartcard with credit loaded on. If you order in advance I think they are free otherwise £3 from a subway station and will give you cheapest fares on the subway.

 

[duncanp]

There isn't an all-day ticket for bus, subway and rail as far as I know since the daytripper product went. There is a rail and subway ticket for Greater Glasgow for £7.40 but only after 9am on weekdays. To use service buses as well it tends to involve separate tickets. Zonecard exists but that's not designed for visitors and minimum period is 1 week.

To use the First buses the easiest thing to do is pay by debit/credit card using the tap on/tap off capping which will tend to give you cheapest fare, but not linked to rail or subway or other bus operators yet.

To use the Subway, paper tickets are an option (single/return/all-day) but cheapest tickets are on the smartcard with credit loaded on. If you order in advance I think they are free otherwise £3 from a subway station and will give you cheapest fares on the subway.

I stand corrected then - I didn't read the web page properly.

The Roundabout ticket gives all day travel on trains and the subway for £7.40, there is an all day subway only ticket for £4.20, and First Glasgow do an all day ticket (for First buses only) for £4.90.

According to https://www.firstbus.co.uk/buy-ticket/tap-cap, tap and cap is not yet available in Glasgow, but you can use a contactless card to buy a paper bus ticket (single or all day)

 

[sannox]

According to https://www.firstbus.co.uk/buy-ticket/tap-cap, tap and cap is not yet available in Glasgow, but you can use a contactless card to buy a paper bus ticket (single or all day)

Tap and Cap has been in Glasgow since April last year. https://www.firstbus.co.uk/greater-glasgow/tickets/tap-tap

Only does the buses and not subway but plans are to extend this to the Subway within the next few years (but it was meant to be multi operator soon but some operators aren't keen!)

 

[duncanp]

Tap and Cap has been in Glasgow since April last year. https://www.firstbus.co.uk/greater-glasgow/tickets/tap-tap

Only does the buses and not subway but plans are to extend this to the Subway within the next few years (but it was meant to be multi operator soon but some operators aren't keen!)

First bus have contradicting information on their website then, because the link I shared says it is only available in Aberdeen, Doncaster, Southampton and Bristol.

We have the same problem in Birmingham. Tap and cap is available on the buses, but not the trams or National Rail services.

 

[Christmas]

It was officially called "The Underground" when I lived in Scotland in the 1980s.

Every station had a large "U" sign outside, rather like the roundel you see for the tube in London.

I recall there was no regular Sunday service until the Glasgow Garden Festival in 1988, and that services on other days of the week finished comparatively early, at around 10pm.

Having only recently been refurbished, the system was shiny and new compared to the rather grotty London Underground at the time, but like all systems it is now showing its age.

Interesting that the refurbishment of the system in the late 1970s didn't include full accessiblity for wheelchairs, and even now the current refurbishment doesn't include full accessiblity. I realise that, like the London Underground, the design of some stations would make the provision of full disabled access difficult, if not impossible.

By the time of the construction of the Docklands Light Railway in the mid 1980s, the provision of full accessibility for wheelchairs was regarded as standard for all new transport networks.

I wonder if they have considered a heavy duty stair lift rather than attempt the impossible task of fitting a lift to platform level at every station.

 

[jagardner1984]

Simple reality is that the ticket revenue does not pay the running costs of the subway (let alone the modernisations costs which were funded separately) - and so therefore all focus is on getting through with little extra cost in recruitment and training.

Many of the stations are already operated by single staff member (with a travelling relief for break cover). There is minimal shift overlap in the middle of the day.

The Sunday pattern relates as others have said to single shift pattern (bear in mind the staff work before and after public opening times to test fire alarms and distribute staff around the system) and indeed when extended opening occurs at Christmas, some of the staff will work close to a 12 hour day. That is clearly not sustainable on a week to week basis.

There can absolutely be a better subway service and more staff recruited. As with so much, SPT do not want to pay for it. People can draw their own conclusions over a relatively contained project which shows no signs of inching towards completion over 12 years since the first works began.

Cynics have pointed out most ATO systems with platform edge doors (a key requirement for UTO) are built as such - ie straight and level platforms, and the degree of accuracy needed to align with the train doors will be more challenging to achieve than anywhere else due to the geography, and question whether the system will ever be fully UTO.

There is an interesting podcast (a fair bit of marketing fluff) but also some interesting interviews with staff delivering the project.

‎Glasgow Subway Journeys on Apple Podcasts

‎Business · 2023

podcasts.apple.com