GN Class 717

Failed Unit

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Period 7 MTINs:

717: 7242 (down from 9567, average now 7994)
700: 16805 (up from 14565, average now 13180)

Still a way to go yet.
still a long way below the 313s (but the 700s are getting closer). The extra 2 units that will be used for the more intensive peak service to Moorgate are certainly helping us not notice the poor reliability as much.
 
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Aictos

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I’m not sure if this happens on the 717s but suspect it does as it does on their sister class the Class 700s but why when the driver sets up the cab that the air con goes into furious mode for a few minutes then settles down?

Eg if a engine, it revs up big time then settles down to tick over.
 

rebmcr

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I’m not sure if this happens on the 717s but suspect it does as it does on their sister class the Class 700s but why when the driver sets up the cab that the air con goes into furious mode for a few minutes then settles down?

Eg if a engine, it revs up big time then settles down to tick over.
Likely a fan test as part of the bootup process. Desktop computers do it too, as well as server room equipment.
 

tofl

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They seem better now, and an improvement on 313s from most points of view. Any problems I have had have been driver or network rather than train related. People now seem less inclined to crowd in the door areas, and are more willing to move down to use all the space. The SDO still confuses a few people even now, mainly those on platforms. A few signs wouldn't go amiss, a bit like the ones on the Met line platform at King's Cross that shows where Met vs Circle line trains end.
I imagine most people feel they are an improvement, possibly except those who used to get a seat in the morning and don't now, and those getting on at Old Street, H&I and Finsbury Park in the evening.
What we really need now is more frequent trains in the peaks at least, and hopefully 4tph on weekends on the Hertford loop. The odd extra semi-fast train to/from Hertford wouldn't go amiss.
Extra trains from Finsbury Park going through the core will also be very helpful especially for those like me who loathe the tube - if you can change there without waiting too long then the overall journey is more pleasant, quicker and possibly cheaper.
 

jon0844

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The air conditioning in the 700/717/707 is far quieter than any Desiro trains before, so I assume the whole setup is different.
 

Dave W

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They seem better now, and an improvement on 313s from most points of view. Any problems I have had have been driver or network rather than train related. People now seem less inclined to crowd in the door areas, and are more willing to move down to use all the space. The SDO still confuses a few people even now, mainly those on platforms. A few signs wouldn't go amiss, a bit like the ones on the Met line platform at King's Cross that shows where Met vs Circle line trains end.
I imagine most people feel they are an improvement, possibly except those who used to get a seat in the morning and don't now, and those getting on at Old Street, H&I and Finsbury Park in the evening.
What we really need now is more frequent trains in the peaks at least, and hopefully 4tph on weekends on the Hertford loop. The odd extra semi-fast train to/from Hertford wouldn't go amiss.
Extra trains from Finsbury Park going through the core will also be very helpful especially for those like me who loathe the tube - if you can change there without waiting too long then the overall journey is more pleasant, quicker and possibly cheaper.
A fair assessment, imo. People have also worked out that there’s quite a big space where the carriages connect, which helps around the doors.

Occasional semi fasts would be much appreciated. I’m regularly up at Gordon Hill and the 1750 back to town that is first stop Ally Pally is most enjoyable.
 

jon0844

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I am not sure they'll change much this May (given they want to run more trains through the core) but the timings need to be adjusted as 717s are sometimes leaving up to 2 minutes early, or having to sit for a minute at many stations, given the vastly improved acceleration and reduced dwell times.

Ignoring the faster top speed (obviously restricted to 75mph by the slows) capabilities, the fact is there's little need to skip stops now. You can leave WGC and call at Welham Green and Brookmans Park and still arrive early at Potters Bar. The evening services that skip Hatfield could likely stop there with no impact too.

On the Hertford Loop there's probably loads of scope too.
 

jon0844

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PPM for the GN inners was 99% on Friday. Just one single train delay (no cancellations) caused by a fire alert at Moorgate.

Given that's 100% 717 operation, that's a pretty good result. The software updates rolled out from mid December must have made a big difference.
 

rebmcr

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I am not sure they'll change much this May (given they want to run more trains through the core) but the timings need to be adjusted as 717s are sometimes leaving up to 2 minutes early, or having to sit for a minute at many stations, given the vastly improved acceleration and reduced dwell times.

Ignoring the faster top speed (obviously restricted to 75mph by the slows) capabilities, the fact is there's little need to skip stops now. You can leave WGC and call at Welham Green and Brookmans Park and still arrive early at Potters Bar. The evening services that skip Hatfield could likely stop there with no impact too.

On the Hertford Loop there's probably loads of scope too.
It's easy to come to such conclusions without noticing the effect of varied service patterns on certain popular departures' dwell timings.

c2c of course discovered that to their peril.
 

jon0844

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My point is that some ommited stops don't need to happen now, and there are now pointless waits (or accidental early departures), so hopefully there's scope to return to a more standardised stopping pattern in the future.

When it comes to more complicated planning, like the obvious issue with the Welwyn viaduct, you absolutely need to be careful for unintended side effects.
 

D1012

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PPM for the GN inners was 99% on Friday. Just one single train delay (no cancellations) caused by a fire alert at Moorgate.

Given that's 100% 717 operation, that's a pretty good result. The software updates rolled out from mid December must have made a big difference.
Friday was obviously a good day. However, as a daily user, I notice that the GN inner service remains very unreliable due to train faults and the never-ending shortage of train crew. You cannot rely on this service.
 

717001

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Ignoring the faster top speed (obviously restricted to 75mph by the slows) capabilities, the fact is there's little need to skip stops now. You can leave WGC and call at Welham Green and Brookmans Park and still arrive early at Potters Bar. The evening services that skip Hatfield could likely stop there with no impact too.
Some of the current skipped stops (eg Hatfield) were short term adjustments from the long term plan, so that the services could be delivered by the 313s. Hopefully they will all be corrected in May. The preliminary info in planners suggests that could well be the case, but will need to await official confirmation to be sure.

Other skipped stops, like the reduced services for Brookmans Park and Welham Green, were planned - hopefully the 717 performance will allow them to be reviewed. However the interlinking with the Cambridge stopper services at Welwyn Garden City and Finsbury Park needs to be very precise - eg southbound the faster train leaves just ahead of one slow and almost catches up with the previous one, but has no potential to overtake either (due to congestion on the faster line).
 

BowesRanger

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Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is there any announced plan for re timetabling the route, now the 717s are settling in? Or does major change have to wait for moorgate resignalling?
 

hwl

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Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is there any announced plan for re timetabling the route, now the 717s are settling in? Or does major change have to wait for moorgate resignalling?
December for 1st round
Post Moorgate resignalling for 2nd round
 

jon0844

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I hear for period 10, GTR had the best performance (relating to train faults) of its rolling stock for any TOC in the UK.

I think following software updates before Christmas the 717s really must be doing exceptionally well now, with a massive leap in reliability. As the other stock should have long bedded in and the 313s are gone, long may it continue.
 

samuelmorris

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I hear for period 10, GTR had the best performance (relating to train faults) of its rolling stock for any TOC in the UK.

I think following software updates before Christmas the 717s really must be doing exceptionally well now, with a massive leap in reliability. As the other stock should have long bedded in and the 313s are gone, long may it continue.
How do they figure that, the mean reliability rating of all their stock combined? I suppose that makes sense really, most TOCs are lumbered with unreliable DMUs or intercity stock, GTR have a modern fleet probably only marred now by the 700s. I'm slightly surprised to see GTR ahead of Southeastern but I suppose perhaps the 465s drag them down a bit.
 

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