Good Friday

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transportphoto

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Hi All,

I am a little confused over tomorrow's bank holiday, usually on bank holidays, Sunday services operate, however looking on RSH for Norwich to Sheringham, it is showing an totally different service.


RSH is showing departing Norwich 0645, 0836, 0945, 1036 alternating hourly xx45/xx36 until the last two at 1836 and 2036. Returning SHM to NRW 0742, 0942 thence hourly until the last two at 1942 and 2142.

Could anyone confirm that the services shown on RSH are part of the timetable operating tomorrow? Greater Anglia's website description of Good Friday alterations isn't the best helpful!

Cheers

TP
 
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Zoe

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I am a little confused over tomorrow's bank holiday, usually on bank holidays, Sunday services operate
On some rail routes a full weekday service operates with the exception of some peak services that don't run. I believe some TOCs operate a Saturday service but I'm not sure that many operate a Sunday service.
 

Greenback

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I don't know of any TOC's that operate a Sunday service on bank holidays. Some early morning services might be amende dor withdrawn, but a near normal service usually operates, at least to a Saturday level.
 

Zoe

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This is what GA have to say on the matter, as I said above, its not very helpful!
You could always phone Greater Anglia or National Rail Enquiries if you want to be sure.

I don't know of any TOC's that operate a Sunday service on bank holidays. Some early morning services might be amende dor withdrawn, but a near normal service usually operates, at least to a Saturday level.
This leaves the strange situation where even though a near normal rail service is operating, the buses often run a Sunday service which on some routes can be no service at all.
 
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Greenback

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You could always phone Greater Anglia or National Rail Enquiries if you want to be sure.


This leaves the strange situation where even though a near normal rail service is operating, the buses often run a Sunday service which on some routes can be no service at all.
Yes. Most buses in this area have only a Sunday service on bank holidays, but I think most have a Saturday service as a minimum on Good Friday, with some frequency reductions.

Still, it's not surprising that most of my neighbours are surprised to see so many trains on bank holiday Mondays!

If GA are running Sunday services, then they are very much the exception to the general rule. Having had a look, it seems as if they are running a Summer Sunday timetable (with an earlier start) which isn't far off the usual Saturday timetable, albeit with an earlier finish.
 

dk1

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Local Anglia services tend to run to a Sunday service on Bank Holidays with the exception that Sheringham services run to a Summer timetable as the 2-hourly Winter one will not cope & Norwich-Cambridge operates to a weekday service due to conflictions with EMT/FCC/XC who run a near normal service.

There are also additional early morning trains on locals to allow arrivals into Norwich before 08.30.
 

transportphoto

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Thanks all for the help, I've spoken to a train planner for Greater Anglia (relative) and he has confirmed pretty much dk1's statements. I didn't want to bother him in work though :smile:

TP
 

JohnGeddes

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The confusion about Good Friday services is partly caused by the little-observed distinction between a Public Holiday and a Bank Holiday.

Christmas Day and Good Friday are Public Holidays. Other weekdays when banks aren't required to open are Bank Holidays.

Common parlance treats Public Holidays as if they were Bank Holidays. But pedants within parts of the transport industry DO make the distinction, but fail to share that with users.

My local bus timetable currently says "No service on Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays" which implies a service on Good Friday to those with a logical mind - but until we can get government to get rid of the "Public Holiday" distinction, it would be much better if operators would be explicit:
it wouldn't take a lot more ink to add "Normal weekday service on Good Friday"

John Geddes
Derbyshire
 

merlodlliw

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The confusion about Good Friday services is partly caused by the little-observed distinction between a Public Holiday and a Bank Holiday.

Christmas Day and Good Friday are Public Holidays. Other weekdays when banks aren't required to open are Bank Holidays.

Common parlance treats Public Holidays as if they were Bank Holidays. But pedants within parts of the transport industry DO make the distinction, but fail to share that with users.

My local bus timetable currently says "No service on Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays" which implies a service on Good Friday to those with a logical mind - but until we can get government to get rid of the "Public Holiday" distinction, it would be much better if operators would be explicit:
it wouldn't take a lot more ink to add "Normal weekday service on Good Friday"

John Geddes
Derbyshire
Welcome John.

I was about to put up similar, You are correct about Good Friday & Xmas Day,which in effect are religious holidays in England & Wales, but now classed as public holidays, not not bank holidays

Good Friday is a normal working day in the Midlands & people used to take the following Tuesday off, as an aside Cinemas used to have to apply for permission to open on Good Friday,pubs had Sunday hours,etc etc

Bob
 

chris89

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Re buses.

Those in shropshire at least operate a Saturday service instead which is pretty much same as weekday service minus a bus or to gladly.

Bank Holiday mondays are different as none run on my local one and the Arriva 890 no longer has a sunday service and hasnt since late last year.
 

73001

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Sundays/public holidays are ridiculous now... years ago, nothing was open and no one went out. Nowadays, they tend to be busier than weekdays (outside of the peak). I used to work as a revenue inspector in a PTE area and you couldn't even get on some of the buses which were running Sunday timetables. The trains were as bad, half hourly and 3-car instead of 6-car. If we're going to have a 24/7 society some areas really need to catch up... plus there's a lot of lost revenue out there because of it.
 

Oswyntail

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.. If we're going to have a 24/7 society some areas really need to catch up... plus there's a lot of lost revenue out there because of it.
Judging by some of the threads on here, railway staff are among those lagging behind most. Like it or not, Sundays and Public Holidays are generally seen as days for intense leisure activities, and service industries like the railways are missing opportunities if they do not take advantage of this. Expecting to be massively compensated for working on these days is unreasonable. Service levels should be consistent throughout the week (with a possible reduction in commuter oriented services). It could be done - just needs a little flexible thinking - in a way that would benefit everyone.
 

DavidL

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I know this is a slight diversion - and just for the record I was very happy to see Northern running a normal weekday service today (particularly as otherwise, it would've been a rail-replacement bus just at the moment!), but...

Like it or not, Sundays and Public Holidays are generally seen as days for intense leisure activities...
and
Expecting to be massively compensated for working on these days is unreasonable.
I know I'm quoting quite selectively :) but I can't help but see this as a contradiction - and that this contradiction is the crux of the matter. For many, they are indeed seen as days for leisure activities, and so your point about increased service levels is absolutely valid.

However, I would guess* it's that very same logic that's also reasoning behind the staff wanting to be compensated (massively or appropriately, depending on viewpoint) for working them.

Speaking a commuter and leisure passenger, I think it's reasonable to expect an increased / nearer to normal level of service on public holidays, but I think it's equally reasonable for an increased rate of pay / bonus for those staff who work these times - they are, after all, giving up their leisure time (which likely coincides with family's / friends' leisure time) to staff these services.

-David

* - not being rail staff or (officially) having to work weekends/public holidays
 

dk1

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Not a lot could be done as only 2 lines where open Stratford to Shenfield, but an hourly Intercity service to Norwich is nowhere near enough on a Good Friday & neither is 1 train per hour to/from Great Yarmouth (daily frequency). So busy out there today. The 14.30 ex-Liverpool St was heaving & platform staff said every train had been like that since 08.30 & was taking 3 members of staff to place seat reservations to ensure boarding 15mins before departure.
 

exile

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In the early days of railways Sunday services were fairly lavish but were cut down severely in the religious revival of the late Victorian era. Eventually Scotland had virtually no Sunday service whatsoever and things weren't much better in most of England other than main lines. Now we have something like a full service on main lines and not far off a full service elsewhere. My local station is closed on Sunday -which is particularly inconvenient now that local buses have been withdrawn on Sunday evenings.
 

34D

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I know I'm quoting quite selectively :) but I can't help but see this as a contradiction - and that this contradiction is the crux of the matter. For many, they are indeed seen as days for leisure activities, and so your point about increased service levels is absolutely valid.
Agree fully here. I'm happy to work a public/bank holiday, but it has to be worth my while.
 

krisk

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Judging by some of the threads on here, railway staff are among those lagging behind most. Like it or not, Sundays and Public Holidays are generally seen as days for intense leisure activities, and service industries like the railways are missing opportunities if they do not take advantage of this. Expecting to be massively compensated for working on these days is unreasonable. Service levels should be consistent throughout the week (with a possible reduction in commuter oriented services). It could be done - just needs a little flexible thinking - in a way that would benefit everyone.
I have a contract of employment that states how many Sundays I can be asked to work. I accepted that when I commenced work and that clearly sets down what is required of me.

Want me to work outside of that well then you remunerate me for asking me to go above and beyond what I am contractually obliged.

Next, more staff work at weekends as more trains run means more rest days during the week. So the overall headcount has to increase, TOC has higher outlays in wages, training, contributions.

There seems to be some bad feeling towards railway staff on here that get Sundays off or time off at Christmas, it is the industry we work in. If you want those perks too well get an application form.

Now regards buses on Bank Hols, First Manchester ran Sunday times and that is a joke, it is ok early on but not sufficient for the daytime hours when busier roads mean Sunday schedules can't be kept too and then when it runs late it is stopping at virtually every stop.
 

jopsuk

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So, today and tomorrow, there's a rail replacement coach from Royston to Stevenage on the Cambridge-Kings Cross service. Are GA doing the sensible thing and making sure that the Liverpool Street services are all 8-car? Bound to be a fair number of extra passengers on the route, and the Kings Cross service can frequently be full-and-standing on 8-car services on Saturdays
 

aformeruser

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I know this is a slight diversion - and just for the record I was very happy to see Northern running a normal weekday service today
With Northern timetables we really need a new Saturday and Bank Holidays timetable. (Having the same one should save on diagramming work opposed to two different ones.)

The new one should be like the weekday timetable expect the 'peak time extras' (where applicable) should be between 08:00 and 11:00 and between 15:00 and 18:00, instead of the weekday times for extra which are generally between 06:30 and 08:30, and also 16:30 and 18:30.
 

ANorthernGuard

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Bank Holidays are just a normal day in the office to most Train Crew, we get normal time and normal timetables just abnormal high loads at different times of the day, people more p**sed up and more of us assaulted or abused..and not a copper in site!
 

Oswyntail

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I have a contract of employment that states how many Sundays I can be asked to work. I accepted that when I commenced work and that clearly sets down what is required of me.

Want me to work outside of that well then you remunerate me for asking me to go above and beyond what I am contractually obliged.

Next, more staff work at weekends as more trains run means more rest days during the week. So the overall headcount has to increase, TOC has higher outlays in wages, training, contributions.

There seems to be some bad feeling towards railway staff on here that get Sundays off or time off at Christmas, it is the industry we work in. If you want those perks too well get an application form.

Now regards buses on Bank Hols, First Manchester ran Sunday times and that is a joke, it is ok early on but not sufficient for the daytime hours when busier roads mean Sunday schedules can't be kept too and then when it runs late it is stopping at virtually every stop.
Yes it is the industry, but the industry needs to change. I can appreciate your attachment to your original contract, and I respect the job you do. However, the requirements for our transport systems are very different from what they were 50 years ago, and the industry - like all others - should change to recognise this. And if this means changing terms of employment, then employees should work with that, or risk the industry and their jobs becoming less relevant. The patterns you speak of are not "perks", they are throwbacks.
 

ANorthernGuard

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Why is it just because something isn't run to their liking it is either a "throwback" or "inconsiderate" or "Rail staff are behind the times" or just because we won't give up certain things in our contract without reasonable compensation we should have our contracts ripped up, everyone in whatever industry they work in signs a Contract if employers were allowed to change that contract at a whim there would be open season on any employee in any industry, certain people need to get over this fact, times have changed on the railway and a hell of alot of contracts have changed, you just have to read the numerous CRI's/DRI's to see that, I knew when I started that Bank Holidays don't exist on the railway so it does not bother me however I also knew that the only 2 guaranteed days off are Christmas Day and Boxing Day, losing them would, the key is striking a balance and not just ripping up peoples contracts

get over it and come up with something constructive instead of the same old story
 

Erniescooper

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The sooner it happens the better and we can start to get rid of the real reason for overcrowding which is that everyone wants travel at the same two peaks on Monday to Friday . I'm sure those on here that are so keen to volounteer other people to work unsociable hours won't complain when their employers alter their working conditions as they no longer have the excuse of not being able to get to work.
 

ANorthernGuard

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Do you mean like the proposed German style 7 day railway, which may start in this country in the early 2020s under DfT/Network Rail proposals?
Proposals that will need train crew backing to work, I have no problens with that as long as a suitable agreement is made regarding our contracts. Negotiation is key, if the toc,s and unions work together it won't be a problem for most

 

Urban Gateline

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Expecting to be massively compensated for working on these days is unreasonable.
Oh really...well you'll be glad to know that I get NO premiums for working Sundays or Bank Holidays or unsocial hours at all, oh and on top of that no overtime, just 37h a week at basic rate. <D
 

ANorthernGuard

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Oh really...well you'll be glad to know that I get NO premiums for working Sundays or Bank Holidays or unsocial hours at all, oh and on top of that no overtime, just 37h a week at basic rate. <D
I get a massive time and a quarter for sundays, overtime is normal rate, but with all these premiums etc we r getting... Oops WHAT premiums!

 
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