Government advice discussion

[Bald Rick]

With commercial airspace largely closed down and excellent weather it is an ideal opportunity for training and survey aircraft to operate.

Commercial airspace isn’t closed.

It’s not being used much, but it is definitely open.

 

[GB]

I suspect that because it is not necessary. There are very few flights anyway because other countries have suspended flights, and the airlines have cut flights as people are not travelling. Those few flights that are still running are mainly to repatriate people.

There are still lots of flights arriving and departing. I can't believe they are all repatriate flights. All these flights have people compacted together either in the airport or on the plane then dispersed when they arrive.

 

[Belperpete]

Have you tried booking a slot if you don't already have one? I've been scouring those in my area for nearly a week without success. My nearest supermarkets are 2.5 and 3.5 miles away, and my wife and I don't drive. So it's either public transport once a week for large shops, or multiple walks with smaller shops. As bad as this situation is, I do not intend to starve myself, sorry.

I expect that the govt will extend the MOTs of essential workers, in which case it would be simplest just to extend them all. However, if they don't, those people whose MOTs expire during the lock-down period are simply going to have to do exactly the same as everyone else (such as myself) who doesn't have a car. I am afraid that I am getting rather fed up of all this self-centred "I am a special case" whinging and rule-bending. You are not a special case, get over it.

 

[thejuggler]

Regardless of airspace conditions, are they essential tasks that must be carried out now to move essential workers ?

Probable not essential, but the Government advice about reasons to leave home have changed significantly and I picked up on the fact that 'keyworker' had been dropped.

The original advice was only key workers could leave home to go to work.
The new advice is to go to work , but work from home if possible.

If you are an emergency services flying instructor or survey plane you need to fly and they can now do legitimately due to the new advice.

The data from aircraft surveys could be vital moving forwards as we have a unique situation of quiet skies, empty roads which should be capitalised on.

 

[RichT54]

Commercial airspace isn’t closed.

It’s not being used much, but it is definitely open.

There have been a number of flights overflying here the last few days heading for Heathrow, but I was rather surprised with how many that are still showing on the Flightradar24.com website.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are they still operating to keep slots? The rules there direly need changing.

 

[thejuggler]

A lot of UK flights are fleets being moved to storage. Bournemouth, Doncaster, Prestwick, Cardiff are all being used by BA, Virgin, Ryanair.

Virgin are down to just 6 aircraft in service.

Cargo flights are also still operating. NATS app is currently showing no flights on finals to Heathrow and just three aircraft preparing to depart.

 

[Bantamzen]

I expect that the govt will extend the MOTs of essential workers, in which case it would be simplest just to extend them all. However, if they don't, those people whose MOTs expire during the lock-down period are simply going to have to do exactly the same as everyone else (such as myself) who doesn't have a car. I am afraid that I am getting rather fed up of all this self-centred "I am a special case" whinging and rule-bending. You are not a special case, get over it.

Sorry, your response doesn't make sense to me, perhaps you could clarify? I live some distance from the nearest supermarkets, I don't drive, and I need to shop. So in the absence of any delivery slots, my only option is to walk or use public transport to the supermarket. And the government guidance says I can do this.

And just for reference:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...dance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

You should only leave the house for one of four reasons:

• shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible.
• one form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household.
• any medical need, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person.
• travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You don't need money in the bank, you can pay by credit card.

And how, pray, do you pay the 30%+interest charged if you don't have any money and you don't have a job?

This is such a dangerous idea, we are not yet being locked in our homes so why would we need to be individually tracked. Be very careful what we wish for, once given that power can not easily be taken back....

There are a lot of people demanding "emergency powers" that, as history shows, never quite get around to being revoked again. If you trade liberty for security you deserve neither.

The police attended a barbecue by a block of flats in Coventry yesterday and smashed everything up to make the group disband. People were cheering them for it. The mind boggles.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Are they still operating to keep slots? The rules there direly need changing.

The EU already suspended that rule.

Don't forget most passenger airlines carry a lot of freight.

 

[GusB]

Have you tried booking a slot if you don't already have one? I've been scouring those in my area for nearly a week without success. My nearest supermarkets are 2.5 and 3.5 miles away, and my wife and I don't drive. So it's either public transport once a week for large shops, or multiple walks with smaller shops. As bad as this situation is, I do not intend to starve myself, sorry.

I expect that the govt will extend the MOTs of essential workers, in which case it would be simplest just to extend them all. However, if they don't, those people whose MOTs expire during the lock-down period are simply going to have to do exactly the same as everyone else (such as myself) who doesn't have a car. I am afraid that I am getting rather fed up of all this self-centred "I am a special case" whinging and rule-bending. You are not a special case, get over it.

It's all very well ranting about people considering themselves to be special cases, but if you do not have access to a car and would normally use public transport, options are very limited.

I was lucky enough to be able to grab a Sunday slot with Asda. I booked the slot first, as they recommend, but when I went to build the order, every single item that I needed was showing as out of stock. They have a minimum basket charge of £3 which is only waived when the order value reaches £40 - a limit which is difficult to reach (for me) without buying stuff that isn't essential!

My usual option of taking the bus into town and shopping in Aldi is not available to me now. Even taking account the £5 bus fare, this is by far the cheapest option.

The only other option I have is to shop locally. The owners of the two shops in the village have cut opening hours and have introduced free home deliveries, which is commendable, but the prices are high compared to the larger supermarkets. £1.50 for a 4-pinter of milk compared to around £1 in Aldi. Bread is upwards of £1.50 compared to 79p for the equivalent product in Aldi. I'm currently on a low income and it's not sustainable for me to continue to pay the inflated local prices for everything for a long period of time. Besides, due to the size of the shops, the range and quantity of fruit and veg available is very limited. I'm not talking about luxury items either. It's a fact that for some people, having access to the basics is going to be very difficult without having to travel.

I see no problem with people who do own cars using click-and-collect, where contact with others can be suitably limited.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you have a Morrisons nearby and is their "food box" service viable for you for basics?

https://www.morrisons.com/food-boxes/boxes

Only them doing it so far but I'd be surprised if others didn't follow. There's an argument (if you offer allergy versions) that they should replace their entire delivery offer with it using the vans as well rather than just DPD.

 

[Bald Rick]

There are still lots of flights arriving and departing. I can't believe they are all repatriate flights. All these flights have people compacted together either in the airport or on the plane then dispersed when they arrive.

Very few passengers on them. Those I see taking off rom Luton are using a lot less runway and climbing more quickly (and less noisily).

Are they still operating to keep slots? The rules there direly need changing.

The rules have changed.

As others have said, many of the flights have freight in the hold, some of which is medical supplies.

 

[Darandio]

I notice there is some discussion about MOT's, has this been posted yet?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronav...s-vans-and-motorcycles-due-from-30-march-2020

You do not need to do anything to extend your vehicle’s MOT expiry date if it’s on or after 30 March 2020. However, you must keep your vehicle safe to drive.

Your vehicle will be automatically given a 6-month MOT exemption. This will extend your current MOT expiry date by 6 months.

 

[Domh245]

Cargo flights are also still operating. NATS app is currently showing no flights on finals to Heathrow and just three aircraft preparing to depart.

Heard a whole bunch arriving into East Midlands yesterday, first that I can remember for a while. Whether that's because frequencies have been cut or they've been approaching from over derby rather than Nottingham I don't know!

 

[Bantamzen]

Do you have a Morrisons nearby and is their "food box" service viable for you for basics?

https://www.morrisons.com/food-boxes/boxes

Only them doing it so far but I'd be surprised if others didn't follow. There's an argument (if you offer allergy versions) that they should replace their entire delivery offer with it using the vans as well rather than just DPD.

I had seen these, and as a last resort I'll use them. But as others have said, money is a consideration right now with my wife's business on hold, so it really depends what actually comes with them. As I understand it they are random packs of essentials, which h might be handy but might not have everything you need at a specific time or could work out more expensive pound for pound.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good stuff, thought they would do that re MoT.

 

[DarloRich]

Commercial airspace isn’t closed.

It’s not being used much, but it is definitely open.

A lot of UK flights are fleets being moved to storage. Bournemouth, Doncaster, Prestwick, Cardiff are all being used by BA, Virgin, Ryanair.

Virgin are down to just 6 aircraft in service.

Cargo flights are also still operating. NATS app is currently showing no flights on finals to Heathrow and just three aircraft preparing to depart.

The EU already suspended that rule.

Don't forget most passenger airlines carry a lot of freight.

I think we need to keep the skies open to freight to help with food/medical supplies etc There are quite a few freighters up there. Lots of West Atlantic/ASL freighters and a couple of RAF KC2 Voyagers. I have also noted a lot more UPS/FedEX/DHL flights as well. Also a LOT of 747f's out there. ( Perhaps they are just usually hidden by the number of passenger flights)

KLM/Air France/Aer Lingus still seem to be flying in numbers

 

[Mogster]

I completely agree with this. For those working, fiddle with the tax system so they claw most of it back. Most, not all, as those who can work remotely (like me) need to keep the economy running and paying taxes, so we don't want to incentivise such people not to work.

Paying £1000 a month to 50M would cost £5BN per month. That’s 5BN paying people to do nothing and disincentivizing them to work.

It seems the left are frothing at the mouth at the thought of some sort of UBI being introduced. Those who can work without infecting others really need to be incentivized to do so rather than viewing the current situation as a holiday. As many people as possible need to be kept working for the good of the economy, or what’s left of it...

 

[Belperpete]

The only other option I have is to shop locally. The owners of the two shops in the village have cut opening hours and have introduced free home deliveries, which is commendable, but the prices are high compared to the larger supermarkets. £1.50 for a 4-pinter of milk compared to around £1 in Aldi. Bread is upwards of £1.50 compared to 79p for the equivalent product in Aldi. I'm currently on a low income and it's not sustainable for me to continue to pay the inflated local prices for everything for a long period of time. Besides, due to the size of the shops, the range and quantity of fruit and veg available is very limited.

Fortunately, the MOT rules have been relaxed. However, plenty of people get by without a car. You would not be a special case just because you might temporarily be without one. Your life would just be a tad less easy than it once used to be. At least you can walk to not just one, but two, local shops - there are many, many people who don't even have one within reasonable walking distance. Everyone's life is going to be less easy than it was, some considerably more than others. We all need to get used to it, and get on with the new situation we all find ourselves in.

 

[Typhoon]

I was quite impressed by Sturgeon's speech yesterday, where she outlined exactly what the Scottish position is. Basically, if your work is not in support of medical services or food supply, then it is not essential. So transport workers are considered essential, if they transport medical staff or food supplies. If you can work entirely on your own without coming into contact with anybody else during the course of your work, e.g. you work at home, or as a gardener, then you can also carry on working. I only wish BoJo would be as explicit. Currently there is too much scope for people to consider their work as essential, the Sports Direct case being perhaps the most ludicrous.

So was I, also around the same time I heard a Scottish government health spokesman (Jason Leitch?) very forceful, very precise. I think the accent helps. In contrast we have those that think saying 'Let me make it clear' (or similar) magically clarifies matters. It would be better if the Prime Minister agreed a form of words beforehand and read from the script, but that is not his style.

Incidentally, one group of workers who I don't think are classed as essential but maybe ought to be (but how they work without coming into contact, I don't know) is bin men, the last thing we need is rotten rubbish on the street attracting vermin.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Incidentally, one group of workers who I don't think are classed as essential but maybe ought to be (but how they work without coming into contact, I don't know) is bin men, the last thing we need is rotten rubbish on the street attracting vermin.

It's actually a fairly small problem if people think (yes, I know). Wash ALL packaging, even if it would normally go in the "normal" bin, and squash it down, and you can keep it as long as you need to because it's clean. That leaves only food waste, which you really need to be minimising, which you could store in e.g. a sealed bucket, or make a compost heap if you have a garden.

 

[Bantamzen]

So was I, also around the same time I heard a Scottish government health spokesman (Jason Leitch?) very forceful, very precise. I think the accent helps. In contrast we have those that think saying 'Let me make it clear' (or similar) magically clarifies matters. It would be better if the Prime Minister agreed a form of words beforehand and read from the script, but that is not his style.

Incidentally, one group of workers who I don't think are classed as essential but maybe ought to be (but how they work without coming into contact, I don't know) is bin men, the last thing we need is rotten rubbish on the street attracting vermin.

Bradford Council binmen are as I type busy collecting the rubbish to schedule. I imagine this is the same elsewhere?

 

[Belperpete]

Those who can work without infecting others really need to be incentivized to do so rather than viewing the current situation as a holiday. As many people as possible need to be kept working for the good of the economy, or what’s left of it...

While I agree with you, the number of emergency jobs needing filling is very small compared to the huge numbers of people currently being laid off. A very large number of self-employed people are suddenly finding themselves with no income whatsoever, but still needing to feed their families.

As usual, I think that we in the UK are over-complicating things in trying to devise a "fair" system. The priority now should be just to make sure that these people can feed themselves NOW - we can make it fair later on. I think that the Americans have the right kind of idea, in proposing to just pay a lump sum to everybody (they don't have PAYE there, so I think it is harder to distinguish those who are self-employed). In the UK, I think the government should just pay a set sum to everybody who is currently registered as self-employed. It can be clawed back later-on through the tax system from those who didn't actually deserve it. Far better to pay one person in ten too much, than leave the other nine struggling for several weeks.

 

[Belperpete]

Bradford Council binmen are as I type busy collecting the rubbish to schedule. I imagine this is the same elsewhere?

I had booked a bulk waste collection for next Wednesday. They contacted me to say it would have to be today, as they are stopping the service from next week. I presume so the staff can be reallocated to cover the normal rounds, as others go sick.

 

[GusB]

I wish you could hear yourself - you won't be able to buy the range and quantity that you used to. I am so so sorry - NOT.

That's not what I meant, and I think you know it. I'm not particularly bothered about the range - I'm not talking about not being able to buy squash, sweet potatoes and other such "exotic" veg. Carrots, tatties etc. are fine for me. When I mentioned quantity I was referring to the amount that the smaller stores can physically hold, not the amount I can purchase in one go.

There's no need to be quite so sarcastic in your response.

 

[SHD]

It's actually a fairly small problem if people think (yes, I know). Wash ALL packaging, even if it would normally go in the "normal" bin, and squash it down, and you can keep it as long as you need to because it's clean. That leaves only food waste, which you really need to be minimising, which you could store in e.g. a sealed bucket, or make a compost heap if you have a garden.

... and what do you suggest to do with nappies? I am afraid that families will not switch to washable/reusable ones overnight - besides, many reusable nappies actually have an insert.

 

[Bletchleyite]

... and what do you suggest to do with nappies? I am afraid that families will not switch to washable/reusable ones overnight - besides, many reusable nappies actually have an insert.

Nappies are probably the one exception, but it would not be within the realms of sense to offer a special collection only for those with young children or older children/adults who have continence problems.

Female sanitary products are also a potential issue, probably need to find a way to store those using sealable boxes or similar.

But the vast majority of litter is not, people just lazily chuck e.g. meat packets in the regular bin without washing. Wash them and they're no threat.

 

[RichT54]

Bradford Council binmen are as I type busy collecting the rubbish to schedule. I imagine this is the same elsewhere?

My council (Bracknell Forest) have suspended collections of garden waste until further notice, but collections of general waste and recycling will go ahead as normal. We don't have food waste recycling yet (planned for October I believe). The bulky item collection service is suspended and the recycling centres in Bracknell and Reading are closed until further notice.

 

[DarloRich]

I am hoping MK council keep the food waste collections going. That is what will rot and attract vermin. We need to wash out containers and other rubbish. MK council collect green waste ( including food) recycling and waste every week and my next collection is Thursday

I will burn it all in the garden if i have to!