Grand Central declining service quality

[driverd]

So, after travelling on a grand Central service a few days ago, I couldn't help but notice the general poor state of the 180s since the refurb. As per usual, the lino flooring down the aisle was a dirty brown colour, the seat padding a total mess and general seating position uncomfortable. I think the GC 180s are probably one of the few units to come out of a refurb worse than they went in (topic idea anyone)?

However, that's not my main gripe. As I'm sat on a full and standing unit, I'm surrounded by large, bright orange posters telling me to keep my distance and wear face coverings. A very critical 8 seats at the end of the unit are still needlessly taped out as staff only. It just adds to the general atmosphere on GC of being a budget, volunteer group-esque operation with lacking professionalism (which is a real shame as they really used to be one of the best on the East coast).

Is there a reason Grand Central feel the need to tape out these seats and not remove these posters? I think they're the only operator still removing an area of the train from passenger use.

 

[Andypandy1968]

So, after travelling on a grand Central service a few days ago, I couldn't help but notice the general poor state of the 180s since the refurb. As per usual, the lino flooring down the aisle was a dirty brown colour, the seat padding a total mess and general seating position uncomfortable. I think the GC 180s are probably one of the few units to come out of a refurb worse than they went in (topic idea anyone)?

However, that's not my main gripe. As I'm sat on a full and standing unit, I'm surrounded by large, bright orange posters telling me to keep my distance and wear face coverings. A very critical 8 seats at the end of the unit are still needlessly taped out as staff only. It just adds to the general atmosphere on GC of being a budget, volunteer group-esque operation with lacking professionalism (which is a real shame as they really used to be one of the best on the East coast).

Is there a reason Grand Central feel the need to tape out these seats and not remove these posters? I think they're the only operator still removing an area of the train from passenger use.

Another company enjoying keeping the panicdemic going by the sound of it.

 

[bramling]

So, after travelling on a grand Central service a few days ago, I couldn't help but notice the general poor state of the 180s since the refurb. As per usual, the lino flooring down the aisle was a dirty brown colour, the seat padding a total mess and general seating position uncomfortable. I think the GC 180s are probably one of the few units to come out of a refurb worse than they went in (topic idea anyone)?

However, that's not my main gripe. As I'm sat on a full and standing unit, I'm surrounded by large, bright orange posters telling me to keep my distance and wear face coverings. A very critical 8 seats at the end of the unit are still needlessly taped out as staff only. It just adds to the general atmosphere on GC of being a budget, volunteer group-esque operation with lacking professionalism (which is a real shame as they really used to be one of the best on the East coast).

Is there a reason Grand Central feel the need to tape out these seats and not remove these posters? I think they're the only operator still removing an area of the train from passenger use.

On the last point, Tyne & Wear Metro still had the front seats screened off as of June. I presume that’s still the case, as I believe the feeling was these seats were unlikely to come back into use in the lifetime of the current fleet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The answer is found in one simple word. Arriva.

Chiltern isn't what it was either, XC is dire and I don't think I ever experienced one of their bus operations I would call good. And while DaFT Northern isn't perfect, it is better than it was under that shower.

 

[43301]

On the last point, Tyne & Wear Metro still had the front seats screened off as of June. I presume that’s still the case, as I believe the feeling was these seats were unlikely to come back into use in the lifetime of the current fleet.

Why? I get that they are beside the cab door, but if the driver needs to come out of the cab they are going to have to walk past anyone sitting in the net rows of seats anyway!

 

[Alanko]

Hardly surprising to find an open-access operator looking a bit threadbare after two years of depleted passenger numbers. Don't open-access operators shoulder the cost of everything?

As for the Covid posters and things, I don't understand why people still get unduly wound up by this. I'm sure I can find mask guidance posters gathering dust in the doors and windows of local shops. Big deal.

 

[43301]

Hardly surprising to find an open-access operator looking a bit threadbare after two years of depleted passenger numbers. Don't open-access operators shoulder the cost of everything?

As for the Covid posters and things, I don't understand why people still get unduly wound up by this. I'm sure I can find mask guidance posters gathering dust in the doors and windows of local shops. Big deal.

Because it's authoritarian and unnecessary - and in the case of taping off seats leads to more people standing on busy trains. This used to happen a lot on Northern last year - a load of people would be standing in the vesibule, while the seats between that and the back of the cab were taped off, frequently with no staff going near them at any point. Fortunately they've stopped all that nonsense now.

 

[skyhigh]

Hardly surprising to find an open-access operator looking a bit threadbare after two years of depleted passenger numbers. Don't open-access operators shoulder the cost of everything?

Though compare Grand Central to Hull Trains and Lumo, both with shiny new 80x. They really don't compare well.

I was in Kings Cross earlier in the week. There were two 180s sitting smoking and chugging away for the whole of their turnaround time. In contrast, every single other unit was quietly sitting there and departed using the OHLE.

 

[driverd]

As for the Covid posters and things, I don't understand why people still get unduly wound up by this. I'm sure I can find mask guidance posters gathering dust in the doors and windows of local shops. Big deal.

For two reasons.

Firstly, it dilutes the value of safety communications. We all know you should just disregard the posters, but they're simple, sticky back posters - so why not just remove them altogether?
Not only is it unprofessional to have mixed messaging, but it also adds to the general apathy towards printed communications and makes people less willing to respond to such guidance.

Secondly, it creates an undesirable emotional response in many people - as highlighted upthread. For me, it makes me think of the lockdowns and how much of a thoroughly awful time that was. If I'm excited about a fun day out etc, the last thing I want is to be reminded of being unable to leave the house.

The posters add nothing by being in place - 99% of customers do not wear a mask and the minority who chose to do so don't require a poster to advise them to make their own choices - so why not just remove them? At best, it shows the operator has total indifference towards it's fleet and communications...

 

[43301]

Firstly, it dilutes the value of safety communications.

That ship sailed long ago! The incessant, pointless "safety" announcements had caused that well before this latest scare came along - wet platforms, "something that doesn't look right", cycling, skareboarding or rollerblading, unattended luggage, mind the gap, etc, etc have long meant that most people ignore it all as much as they can.

 

[bramling]

Why? I get that they are beside the cab door, but if the driver needs to come out of the cab they are going to have to walk past anyone sitting in the net rows of seats anyway!

It certainly seems out of step with the rest of Tyneside, where even this time last year you’d barely have known things were any different to 2019. There may be an element of preparing people for the new fleet, where there won’t be any front seats.

 

[Bikeman78]

The posters add nothing by being in place - 99% of customers do not wear a mask and the minority who chose to do so don't require a poster to advise them to make their own choices - so why not just remove them? At best, it shows the operator has total indifference towards it's fleet and communications...

Agreed. Even the class 317s have had all the posters taken out and they are going for scrap. Most had the Covid auto announcements deleted too although one or slipped through the net.

 

[D6130]

I was in Kings Cross earlier in the week. There were two 180s sitting smoking and chugging away for the whole of their turnaround time. In contrast, every single other unit was quietly sitting there and departed using the OHLE.

That's interesting. I thought there was a rule that all diesel trains had to be shut down on arrival at Kings Cross and only re-started about 5-10 minutes before departure time? Certainly, pre-Covid, the Grand Central units would be shut-down during their turnrounds. Perhaps they're no longer confident that they'll be able to re-start these days!

 

[AndrewP]

I haven't travelled on Grand Central for years - I got sick of the cancellations and the unreliability of the trains and defects like non-functioning air conditioning. They may have improved but I have never wanted to take the risk

The shame is that I always found the staff excellent

 

[skyhigh]

I thought there was a rule that all diesel trains had to be shut down on arrival at Kings Cross and only re-started about 5-10 minutes before departure time?

I'm not aware of that but I knew the unit was on platform 1 so went to stand down at the buffer ends ready for the plaform to be announced. The unit was running when I got there about 25 mins before departure. Another came in while I was waiting and that was still running when I left. Maybe they leave them running to let cleaners do their job? Regardless, it really stands out now the HSTs are gone from Kings Cross.

 

[fgwrich]

Hardly surprising to find an open-access operator looking a bit threadbare after two years of depleted passenger numbers. Don't open-access operators shoulder the cost of everything?

Though compare Grand Central to Hull Trains and Lumo, both with shiny new 80x. They really don't compare well.

Exactly this. Both Open Access Operators are funded by big companies, it comes down to the will of how much they want to spend and what they believe they can re-coup from it. It’s not as if GC is a small, self funded and self supported operation akin to something run by a co-operative.

As for GC itself, the tagline on the side should be the big giveaway. As mentioned upthread, Arriva. They don’t seem to invest in their operations these days, and Chiltern certainly feels like it’s somewhat gone downhill since their takeover.

 

[47434]

Whatever the concerns over GC, they fill trains. Something is working in the Sunlit Uplands of Thatcherism!
Do I like the service? No. Hate the noisy trains, buffet options are dire. The only plus is the non-stop nature between Donny/York and London. The crawl from Bradford to Donny however is excruciating.

 

[D6130]

The crawl from Bradford to Donny however is excruciating.

....but very interesting from a railway enthusiast's point of view

 

[ainsworth74]

The crawl from Bradford to Donny however is excruciating.

Used to be worse when they went via Pontefract...

 

[Horizon22]

For two reasons.

Firstly, it dilutes the value of safety communications. We all know you should just disregard the posters, but they're simple, sticky back posters - so why not just remove them altogether?
Not only is it unprofessional to have mixed messaging, but it also adds to the general apathy towards printed communications and makes people less willing to respond to such guidance.

Secondly, it creates an undesirable emotional response in many people - as highlighted upthread. For me, it makes me think of the lockdowns and how much of a thoroughly awful time that was. If I'm excited about a fun day out etc, the last thing I want is to be reminded of being unable to leave the house.

The posters add nothing by being in place - 99% of customers do not wear a mask and the minority who chose to do so don't require a poster to advise them to make their own choices - so why not just remove them? At best, it shows the operator has total indifference towards it's fleet and communications...

I don't get overly wound up about it - given how much literature, signage and stickers were put up at pretty much every establishement and public area, there's bound to be some lag. Just like anyone who has gone through a rebrand (or franchise change for that matter) and can find the old documentation / logo / signage still extant. It happens, and it's not a big deal for me.

However it does look unprofessional and can get confusing to people if its messaging; it's a good sign of how much attention a company pays to the finer details, which might filter through to other areas of the business if it's a cultural issue For instance a recent trip on Eurostar still had all the signage about masks being compulsory even though they weren't and the vast majority weren't wearing them anyway.

I do have a friend who regularly travels between London-York travels on GC prefering it to a LNER 80x and has always had a good experience.

 

[Halish Railway]

Used to be worse when they went via Pontefract...

They still do. Hopefully a combination of skipping Pontefract, TRU and electrifying Hare Park Junction to Ravensthorpe could mean that some form of Battery Electric multiple unit can be used on the Bradford Interchange to London services.

 

[D6130]

Used to be worse when they went via Pontefract...

Some of them still do....including the 10 22 from Bradford, which I use quite frequently.

 

[43301]

Exactly this. Both Open Access Operators are funded by big companies, it comes down to the will of how much they want to spend and what they believe they can re-coup from it. It’s not as if GC is a small, self funded and self supported operation akin to something run by a co-operative.

As for GC itself, the tagline on the side should be the big giveaway. As mentioned upthread, Arriva. They don’t seem to invest in their operations these days, and Chiltern certainly feels like it’s somewhat gone downhill since their takeover.

I've not used GC for ages, but as regards Arriva you only need to look at the state of the Voyager interiors to see that keeping their trains in decent condition is not a priority - right up to the end of Virgin West Coast, their Voyagers were always in much better condition to an obvious degree. Both fleets have the same owner and are maintained at the same depot, so it can only be down to how much the operator is prepared to spend.

 

[andystock22]

Why are they still blocking off rows of seats?

 

[dk1]

I thought it very odd on a recent Kings Cross to York then Doncaster to Halifax a few hours later that catering was preffered to be purchased via the delivery app but only cash could be taken at the bar. I also was put off by all the Covid messages. If they where at a shop I'd choose to go elsewhere.

 

[yorksrob]

I liked GC when they started - the free cup of tea era etc

What got me in terms of service (as opposed to rolling stock) was the fact that they booked up every seat, so if say next to a pillar, you couldn't find somewhere better.

 

[Gordonman]

Though compare Grand Central to Hull Trains and Lumo, both with shiny new 80x. They really don't compare well.

I was in Kings Cross earlier in the week. There were two 180s sitting smoking and chugging away for the whole of their turnaround time. In contrast, every single other unit was quietly sitting there and departed using the OHLE.

There is one,possibly two GC units which stable overnight in Bradford Interchange and they are left idling all night just for the reason that they might not be able to restart them the following morning

 

[43301]

There is one,possibly two GC units which stable overnight in Bradford Interchange and they are left idling all night just for the reason that they might not be able to restart them the following morning

Do they need to have a member of staff with them if they are left running?

 

[Gordonman]

Do they need to have a member of staff with them if they are left running?

It is a Northern station and staff lock up in the early hours after the last service train and reopen the following morning between 04.30 and 05.00 hours,so is unstaffed for a period of around 4 hours.

 

[43301]

It is a Northern station and staff lock up in the early hours after the last service train and reopen the following morning between 04.30 and 05.00 hours,so is unstaffed for a period of around 4 hours.

So do GC have to leave someone there? Is it permitted to leave unattended trains with their engines running?