Grand Central Kings Cross [KGX] - York [YRK] / Bradford [BDI]

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OMGitsDAVE

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From the GC Website.

"Due to heavier passenger numbers than normal it is proposed the 19:48 London Kings Cross will run through to York instead of Bradford Interchange. This service will still call at Doncaster to provide a connection for West Riding passengers. This connection will be provided by an additional Grand Central service which will run from Doncaster to Bradford Interchange."
 
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spionkop64

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Interesting way of meeting demand, this from GC's site today:

Thursday 21st April

Due to heavier passenger numbers than normal on our 19:18 London Kings Cross to Sunderland service we advise passengers who are travelling to York without a reservation to travel on the 19:48 London Kings Cross service which will run through to York instead of Bradford Interchange. This service will still call at Doncaster to provide a connection for West Riding passengers. This connection will be provided by an additional Grand Central Shuttle service which will run from Doncaster to Bradford Interchange
 

wensley

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Not too difficult to do...
The unit that formed 1A73/D75 terminates at BDI 1739 and then runs ECS back to Doncaster.

1D77 (1948 ex-KGX) will run to York, calling Doncaster only before terminating. The unit ex D75 forms the additional and takes pax forward all stops to BDI from DON. The unit from D77 will then work as empties back to Crofton meaning all sets are in the right place for tomorrow's trains.
 

spionkop64

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Not too difficult to do...
The unit that formed 1A73/D75 terminates at BDI 1739 and then runs ECS back to Doncaster.

1D77 (1948 ex-KGX) will run to York, calling Doncaster only before terminating. The unit ex D75 forms the additional and takes pax forward all stops to BDI from DON. The unit from D77 will then work as empties back to Crofton meaning all sets are in the right place for tomorrow's trains.
Seems that is exactly what is happening. Hope it works seamlessly as the Bradford's are begining to pick up and it would be a shame to hack off people attracted by the £39 deal.

BTW piece in today's Bradford Telegraph & Argus talking about raising line speeds from 50mph to 70mph, I assume they are referring to the Askern Branch? Plus talks to abandon Pontefract are still on-going. GC seem determined to make a success of the Bradford route. It appears to be beginning to work from Halifax/Brighouse and obviously Doncaster. The big problem (and biggest market) is Bradford. It's quicker to change at Leeds into EC and if you can book in advance cheaper to boot. They are beginning to attract Bradford trade, but most of it appears to be last minute walk ups.
 

Anvil1984

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I'm on said service (the 1948 from the Cross) now and its very healthily loaded, bloody lights keep reverting to emergency lighting though in my coach
 

tbtc

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But also meeting customer demand! Looking at the bigger passenger picture, it makes sense I guess?! BR would have run relief trains.
If Chiltern are fined for getting WSMR to cover part of their Banbury service commitments then I imagine there'll be a more significant treatment of GC sneaking in an extra London - York service to grab more revenue (the York section apparently being more profitable than sticking to providing a direct link to Bradford)
 

ainsworth74

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But also meeting customer demand! Looking at the bigger passenger picture, it makes sense I guess?! BR would have run relief trains.
Yes but BR wasn't in direct competition with itself ;)

To be honest it's good for GC that they have sufficient demand that they need run an extra service to York, but I do wonder what the economics are, will they get extra ORCATS revenue because of this extra service I wonder? I think it does also raise questions about their West Yorkshire service, as tbtc said one of the supposed attractions was that it was a direct service to London, well now that isn't so true anymore!
 

yorkie

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spionkop64 - Please use station names in the titles. Station codes are acceptable once the initial names have been used, but only if the codes are correct. You gave the code for Brentford [BFD] not Bradford Interchange [BDI], and GC do not operate to Brentford ;)

If Chiltern are fined for getting WSMR to cover part of their Banbury service commitments then I imagine there'll be a more significant treatment of GC sneaking in an extra London - York service to grab more revenue (the York section apparently being more profitable than sticking to providing a direct link to Bradford)
Not at all! The equivalent scenario would be if EC got GC to cover part of their service commitments, which is highly unlikely! GC do not have a franchise commitment with the DfT!

Done
 

WestCoast

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If Chiltern are fined for getting WSMR to cover part of their Banbury service commitments then I imagine there'll be a more significant treatment of GC sneaking in an extra London - York service to grab more revenue (the York section apparently being more profitable than sticking to providing a direct link to Bradford)
The GC West Yorkshire service can't be profitable, you only have to look at their bids to attract more customers for £25 / £39 return! The Sunderland - Kings Cross seems to have very healthy loadings consistently though;)

I don't really see the problem with WSMR providing part of Chiltern's commitments - more comfort for the customers and they were part of the same company. I think it's DafT being fussy and awkward over the little things and losing sight of the bigger picture.
 

tbtc

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Not at all! The equivalent scenario would be if EC got GC to cover part of their service commitments, which is highly unlikely! GC do not have a franchise commitment with the DfT!
But GC don't have the right to pick and choose which services they run; they surely can't just divert services to York (for a bigger slice of ORCATS money) and downgrade their Bradford service
 

yorkie

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But GC don't have the right to pick and choose which services they run; they surely can't just divert services to York (for a bigger slice of ORCATS money) and downgrade their Bradford service
If you can provide some documentation on this I'd be very interested to read it!

But this has nothing to do with the fine that has been dished out to Chiltern which was to do with DfT franchise commitments; GC are an open access operator and have no franchise commitments.
 

spionkop64

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But GC don't have the right to pick and choose which services they run; they surely can't just divert services to York (for a bigger slice of ORCATS money) and downgrade their Bradford service
If it's a one off I can't see the harm, especially as they had a unit waiting at Doncaster for a cross platform connection and I imagine everyone got to stations to the Interchange on time.

I can't imagine that they would get away with trying this on a regular basis, especially as it would undermine the Bradford service which is steadily improving, despite the negative comments. The Bradford route was always going to be more challenging than the Sunderland's as they face much stronger competition from EC - and it's notable that EC are currently running a Bradford-London £10 campaign in the Telegraph & Argus. The competition is good news for the passenger - at least in the short term!
 

Nym

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Might this be the time that GC sees sense and starts to look at running full length HSTs? or bidding for addional 180s from EC ro run some sunderlands at 10 car?
 

OMGitsDAVE

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Hopefully longer HST's will be good, the Sunderland trains are getting pretty damn busy!

Doubled up 180's would look good too, mind!

- Having Doubled up 180's or extended HST's wouldn't affect the route would it - IE do they need to apply for longer trains? Longest ive seen is 6!
 

BOSCH

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Hopefully longer HST's will be good, the Sunderland trains are getting pretty damn busy!

Doubled up 180's would look good too, mind!

- Having Doubled up 180's or extended HST's wouldn't affect the route would it - IE do they need to apply for longer trains? Longest ive seen is 6!
HST wise we can have a maximum of 2+7 ;)
 

rmt-driver

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I still have NO idea why they can not run 2 units coupled to Doncaster then divide from there!!! Happens all day every day in other parts of the country without problem
 

brompton rail

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I still have NO idea why they can not run 2 units coupled to Doncaster then divide from there!!! Happens all day every day in other parts of the country without problem
I believe that during recent engineering work on EC main line they did just that! However it was a GC 180 and a Hull Trains 180 that were run together. Means only 1 path instead of 2. However doing this on regular basis Is unlikely as platform stand time at Doncaster would delay other services.
 
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spionkop64

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Trust is showing the Bradford GC's (Mon-Fri) from the new timetable to be HST's. I have been told that this is an error.

However, I keep reading on enthusiast sites that HSTs are barred from the route. I've no idea where that information comes from. The Greetland branch is not restricted, indeed Prince Charles recently travelled over it with Mk3 stock. HST's have used the Calder Valley Route and of course Bradford Interchange. Mk3's are showing as restricted in the sectional appendix between Milner Royd and Bradford but there is no explination as to what this restriction is? Odd.
 

rmt-driver

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I believe that during recent engineering work on EC main line they did just that! However it was a GC 180 and a Hull Trains 180 that were run together. Means only 1 path instead of 2. However doing this on regular basis Is unlikely as platform stand time at Doncaster would delay other services.
Wow that is quite rare id imagine, two competing open access TOC's working together like that for the greater good of all passengers !! (if only regular TOC's did the same!!)

Anyone got a piccy of the two units together?
 

junglejames

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I still have NO idea why they can not run 2 units coupled to Doncaster then divide from there!!! Happens all day every day in other parts of the country without problem
Because NR wont let the Sunderlands stop at Doncaster. Unless they have suddenly backed down in that row! Anyway, even if NR did let them, why would GC want to. If they can double the number of services going to Doncaster, they get extra ORCATS money, and also look a more attractive proposition for passengers. Especially with the cheaper fares.
Also, if the Sunderlands are really that busy, you still have the problem of the Sunderland train being 5 coaches only.

I do like the idea of GC running to Scarborough, but i doubt EC would. What an ORCATS raid that would be on York!! Also wonder if there is the year round demand for it.
 
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