Great British Railways: Branding options?

[vuzzeho]

I think network southeast livery and branding should be brought back with a bit of a update for services around London etc although will have to see how that works with the gwr 387s.

I do think it would brighten up thameslink and great northern.
I think all the longer distance service from crosscountry and GWR etc they should ressurect the intercity livery just slightly updated like the one being used by LNER on that mk4 rake and class 91s

I'm almost certain NSE will not return. As a brand, it's just outdated, and the livery is incredibly 90s - not the look GBR will be going for. InterCity as a brand will probably return, though I imagine it'll be a totally new livery. Modern intercity train designs are more curvy than the straight-line-heavy BREL design language. IC Swallow just wouldn't look right on modern trains.

 

[physics34]

Slightly relevant i guess.. a Greater Anglia ad which keeps popping up on TV uses the double arrow at the end as well as the current GA logo.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Slightly relevant i guess.. a Greater Anglia ad which keeps popping up on TV uses the double arrow at the end as well as the current GA logo.

With GA's very simple branding, they could easily swap the silly* computer generated rabbit for a double arrow and nobody would notice. The Dutch double arrow has already been removed in favour of the rabbit and people probably didn't notice that either.

* Not as utterly stupid as Avanti's tortoise though. "I've got a fast rail service to advertise, what shall I use? I know, the slowest animal."

 

[Zomboid]

I quite like the hare. Apparently it's Britain's fastest land animal, would be a quite appropriate symbol for a future Intercity brand actually.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I quite like the hare. Apparently it's Britain's fastest land animal, would be a quite appropriate symbol for a future Intercity brand actually.

While I've generally proposed repurposing the LNER livery (with the word INTERCITY with the LNER flash on the N) the rabbit is to be fair more appropriate than the LNER Muppet (unless of course it's aimed at those designing their fares policy).

 

[Zomboid]

While I've generally proposed repurposing the LNER livery (with the word INTERCITY with the LNER flash on the N) the rabbit is to be fair more appropriate than the LNER Muppet (unless of course it's aimed at those designing their fares policy).

That would work quite nicely, could maybe add a white cutout in the double arrow shape.

I think I've suggested in this or a similar thread that each route could use it's own coloured band with the same basic shape (adapted for the shape of each train).

 

[Mike Machin]

As Scotland and wales have their own branding and liveries, the neatest solution would be to roll-out the Greater Anglia livery with the double-arrow across the Network. It features England's colours without being overtly nationalistic and has shown that it's adaptable, working on several types of rolling stock and on inter-city, regional and local services very successfully.

 

[physics34]

As Scotland and wales have their own branding and liveries, the neatest solution would be to roll-out the Greater Anglia livery with the double-arrow across the Network. It features England's colours without being overtly nationalistic and has shown that it's adaptable, working on several types of rolling stock and on inter-city, regional and local services very successfully.

Its a very good livery to be fair

 

[Zomboid]

GA is a pretty good one. I'd suggest it could be used as the basis for the "Regional" service group, with LNER as the basis for the Intercity group.

If service groups are coloured then the red can be switched around accordingly.

 

[WAB]

Slightly relevant i guess.. a Greater Anglia ad which keeps popping up on TV uses the double arrow at the end as well as the current GA logo.

This has been the case for several years at GA. Across the industry, the double arrow has become increasingly common, both due to the influence of individuals and wider industry initiatives.

 

[D3WY]

I wouldn't expect there to not be too much "rebranding" taking over the entire network and changing EVERYTHING would cost an absolute fortune not to mention a long time. I'm sure we will see a centralised training center and a GBR management "team" plonked on top of all the TOCs

A total rebrand and total "takeover" would cost so much, in fact I expect the government couldn't afford to take it all on. I mean just taking over the lease of every train in the country.... you imagine the cost.... and they want to keep ticket fares down.... if they do that tickets will go up to fund it no?

 

[Wivenswold]

Just thinking about how much easier it would be to totally rebrand a fleet these days with wraps. To think how quickly so many units were hand-painted into NSE colours back in the 80s and 90s. Though I do remember one attempt at the NSE livery at East Ham Depot that failed quality control, possibly a Friday afternoon job, it was so bad that I'm wondering whether it was done as a practical joke. Then there was the unit that went into service before the paint had dried, I dread to think how many claims for expensive suits the company had over that one.

Not problems that modern operators have to contend with and in that context I don't feel rolling out new liveries would be such an onerous job these days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't expect there to not be too much "rebranding" taking over the entire network and changing EVERYTHING would cost an absolute fortune not to mention a long time. I'm sure we will see a centralised training center and a GBR management "team" plonked on top of all the TOCs

A total rebrand and total "takeover" would cost so much, in fact I expect the government couldn't afford to take it all on. I mean just taking over the lease of every train in the country.... you imagine the cost.... and they want to keep ticket fares down.... if they do that tickets will go up to fund it no?

One initial thing that could be done is something like the Regional Railways brand, i.e. put a superscripted double arrow at the end of the existing TOC brand.

 

[D3WY]

One initial thing that could be done is something like the Regional Railways brand, i.e. put a superscripted double arrow at the end of the existing TOC brand.

Could work. But I still don't see how they can do a full blown take over, inheriting every TOC and it's bill, debts, wages etc. I think they will take the TOCs into GBF scope, centralise training and put a big management team on the top of the hierarchy and be done with it. I think at ground employee level we will hardly notice a change.

 

[saismee]

As Scotland and wales have their own branding and liveries, the neatest solution would be to roll-out the Greater Anglia livery with the double-arrow across the Network. It features England's colours without being overtly nationalistic and has shown that it's adaptable, working on several types of rolling stock and on inter-city, regional and local services very successfully.

Greater Anglia also has great punctuality and cancellation rates, so it's a good contender for creating an "improved" look.

I wouldn't expect there to not be too much "rebranding" taking over the entire network and changing EVERYTHING would cost an absolute fortune not to mention a long time. I'm sure we will see a centralised training center and a GBR management "team" plonked on top of all the TOCs

A total rebrand and total "takeover" would cost so much, in fact I expect the government couldn't afford to take it all on. I mean just taking over the lease of every train in the country.... you imagine the cost.... and they want to keep ticket fares down.... if they do that tickets will go up to fund it no?

Taking over the TOCs would also bring in whatever money they were getting with their contract to operate the service. It may even be ideal to get rid of the ROSCOs over time as it would be cheaper (long-term) for the
government to own the rolling stock. If management is merged then half of it could be cut out to save costs as I'm sure there is a lot of unnecessary overlap in areas with multiple TOCs.

I think at ground employee level we will hardly notice a change.

I think operation-wise it'll be nearly identical, but I am curious to how staff leisure travel will work afterwards. There's a lot of weird acceptance between seemingly unrelated companies (Merseyrail accept GA staff because they're both owned by Transport UK Group), though every member of gateline staff that I've met has just allowed anybody with staff travel cards through any barriers (Northern staff through GA barriers, for example).

 

[pokemonsuper9]

* Not as utterly stupid as Avanti's tortoise though. "I've got a fast rail service to advertise, what shall I use? I know, the slowest animal."

It's got roller skates, that's like the whole point! Typically slow thing going fast.

 

[Mikey C]

Aesop would be amused that one rail company uses a tortoise, while another uses a hare...

 

[Zomboid]

Could work. But I still don't see how they can do a full blown take over, inheriting every TOC and it's bill, debts, wages etc. I think they will take the TOCs into GBF scope, centralise training and put a big management team on the top of the hierarchy and be done with it. I think at ground employee level we will hardly notice a change.

I would expect a unified brand to appear in time. Most TOCs manage it during their tenure, so for anything that has a reasonable service like left they'll do something.

As this is a manifesto commitment from the government, it'll need to be seen to be delivered, not just technically done.

 

[Wivenswold]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the "in-house" TOCs. I suspect we'll start to see BR logos on those trains soon after the GBR South West launch.

 

[Leyland Bus]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the "in-house" TOCs. I suspect we'll start to see BR logos on those trains soon after the GBR South West launch.

Have I missed something? When was this announced? (My bolding)

 

[Sun Chariot]

Have I missed something? When was this announced? (My bolding)

I suspect Wivenswold means last December's government announcement, linked here:

First train services to return to public ownership revealed

Services across England will return to public control, transforming our railways into a more reliable, affordable and accessible system.

www.gov.uk

 

[Leyland Bus]

I suspect Wivenswold means last December's government announcement, linked here:

First train services to return to public ownership revealed

Services across England will return to public control, transforming our railways into a more reliable, affordable and accessible system.

www.gov.uk

Ahh, possibly although it's likely things have moved along since then, the news paper article further up the thread indicated this month to start seeing any branding changes but with anything Govt related, I'm not holding my breath!!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Ahh, possibly although it's likely things have moved along since then, the news paper article further up the thread indicated this month to start seeing any branding changes but with anything Govt related, I'm not holding my breath!!

If the transition to BR Monastral Blue was anything to go by:
1964: double arrow makes its debut on XP64.
1967: repaints into monastral blue gather pace.
1980: 20141 finally repainted from BR green into blue!

 

[Wivenswold]

....2041 for the last non GBR liveried train then.

Maybe we should have a sweep on which TOC livery will be the last to go. Might not be a high-octane, fast-paced competition though.

 

[thomalex]

The brand and new national livery will be unveiled this Sunday 25 May, red white and blue and currently being applied in Bournemouth

 

[Sun Chariot]

The brand and new national livery will be unveiled this Sunday 25 May, red white and blue and currently being applied in Bournemouth

What a highly original and well thought-out colour scheme. Oh, hang on....

 

[Sad Sprinter]

What a highly original and well thought-out colour scheme. Oh, hang on....

It’s either going to be worst thing you’ve ever seen, the most wonderful thing you’ve ever seen, or Network SouthEast

 

[Zomboid]

It’s either going to be worst thing you’ve ever seen, the most wonderful thing you’ve ever seen, or Network SouthEast

There's definitely scope for it to be hideous. I hope they don't try to make the union flag part of it, a triangle based scheme is likely to be bad on long rectangles like trains.

 

[Sun Chariot]

It’s either going to be worst thing you’ve ever seen, the most wonderful thing you’ve ever seen, or Network SouthEast

My wicked side thinks of these....
Links to photos of Stratford 1977 celebrity 47164, also of Mid Norfolk Railway's 47580.

The other Jubilee

During the Queen's Jubilee year, 1977, British Rail arranged for the 08.00 Kings Cross to Edinburgh service to carry the name 'The Silver Jubilee', the first run being on 8 June 1977. Not to be outdone, Stratford depot spruced up 47164 for the 08.30 to Norwich service on the same day, seen here...

www.flickr.com

The Mid Norfolk Railway to run September Diesel Weekend | RailBusinessDaily

The Mid Norfolk Railway is to a run a busy Diesel weekend this September from Friday 23rd to Sunday 25th. The weekend will feature some guest Mainline and The Mid Norfolk Railway is to a run a busy Diesel weekend this September from Friday 23rd to Sunday 25th.

news.railbusinessdaily.com

 

[Mrwerdna1]

If the information surrounding the colour scheme is based on the Guardian articled I originally quoted and linked to in the SWR thread, then I fear I need to nip some potential misinformation in the bud: There is no talk about a red, white and blue livery, merely that the train will carry the GBR logo, which is claimed to be red, white and blue.

To quote the article:

At the rarely experienced hour of 6.14am on Sunday, the first train to carry the Great British Railways branding will make its way out of London Waterloo to Shepperton: traversing the Surrey commuter belt emblazoned with a red, white and blue GBR logo, and proudly renationalised to boot.

The next train with the planned state body’s branding may be some years behind it. But the Labour government hopes to grab the moment to demonstrate to an increasingly impatient electorate that the wheels of change – in rail at least – are finally turning.

The first renationalisation, landing on the late May bank holiday weekend, is one of Britain’s biggest commuter services – although the trains, including the one currently getting the GBR paint job in a Bournemouth depot, will still run as South Western Railway for some time. As the first emblem of a potential new era pulls into the station, what does the shake-up mean for the rail industry – and will passengers notice the difference?

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...at-britain-railways-south-western-lower-fares (19.05.2025)

A subtle difference, perhaps, but the livery / branding could therefore be white, red, blue or a combination thereof, even purple, green, yellow or black (albeit highly unlikely). It may well contain red, blue and white, seeing TfW already does a red and white livery and Scotrail mostly blue. But who knows. Could even be an evolution of the Greater Anglia livery with a splash of blue thrown in or a throwback BR InterCity style livery for all we know.

I think the livery is most likely going to be quite minimalist and contain a lot of white or light grey, with only a splash of red and/or blue thrown in apart from the GBR logo itself. That is the "modern" or "hip" thing to do, even if it does mean trains could get dirty a lot more quickly. Shame if it means great liveries such as GWR will get retired...