Great British Railways: Replaces Network Rail & more changes - updates only (non-speculative)

[usualmidlander]

Has anyone got any idea what will happen to Network Rail employees? Nothing about staff has been mentioned in the documents, proved worrying especially for new starters at Network Rail

 

[zwk500]

There seems to be endless confusion about terminology. Since "Privatisation" ownership of passenger rail operations has always been state owned, let on a fixed contract to a private operator. At the end of the contract operating rights revert to the owner - the state.

Is that privatised? If I rent your house do I own it?

The specification has been publicly controlled, but actual commercial decisions have been largely the gift of the TOC. Infrastructure has been publicly owned (except for certain sections rather recently). The rolling stock has been privately owned. It's neither fully privatised nor fully nationalised.

Has anyone got any idea what will happen to Network Rail employees? Nothing about staff has been mentioned in the documents, proved worrying especially for new starters at Network Rail

There is an internal statement from Andrew Haines and a FAQ on NR Yammer about the impact on NR.

 

[WestRiding]

The specification has been publicly controlled, but actual commercial decisions have been largely the gift of the TOC. Infrastructure has been publicly owned (except for certain sections rather recently). The rolling stock has been privately owned. It's neither fully privatised nor fully nationalised.


There is an internal statement from Andrew Haines and a FAQ on NR Yammer about the impact on NR.

Any idea what the NR statement says? Not back at work for over a week.

 

[Mikey C]

There seems to be endless confusion about terminology. Since "Privatisation" ownership of passenger rail operations has always been state owned, let on a fixed contract to a private operator. At the end of the contract operating rights revert to the owner - the state.

Is that privatised? If I rent your house do I own it?

Agreed, I think the simplistic nationalisation versus privatisation argument is far too narrow

Buses in London are run by private companies, but the regulated model under direct control of local politicians is completely different to the deregulated model outside London. To the extent that an awful lot of people don't realise or care who actually operates their bus route, it's a London bus.

If a London Overground service is disrupted, people will be moaning about London Overground, TfL, maybe the Mayor, but rarely Arriva the operator. It's TfL's job to monitor Arriva's performance and take action if necessary

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The actual services will be still be run by private companies. As far as I know, whilst it is normal for some train services to be contracted out, all EU member states still have most services run by a state owned train company. Some EU member states still have no private operators.

They EU is well on the way for all rail services to be tendered periodically, even if the contract is won by the same or another publicly-owned operator.
(eg Greek national operator OSE is owned by FS (Trenitalia)).
Even your state operator will be on a limited term licence (eg 10 years for NS in the Netherlands).
All states do, or will, allow open access.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They EU is well on the way for all rail services to be tendered periodically, even if the contract is won by the same or another publicly-owned operator.
(eg Greek national operator OSE is owned by FS (Trenitalia)).
Even your state operator will be on a limited term licence (eg 10 years for NS in the Netherlands).
All states do, or will, allow open access.

It is, and I think that is ideology over practicality and very much a bad side of the EU.

 

[usualmidlander]

Any idea what the NR statement says? Not back at work for over a week.

Just read the statement and FAQ and to be honest with you, seems like they haven’t got a clue either what will happen to employees. I guess we’re just at their mercy and the union’s

 

[Grumpy Git]

It is, and I think that is ideology over practicality and very much a bad side of the EU.

Ideology gets in the way of everything, not just how to run a Railway. In fact it's the reason British Rail was privatised originally!

 

[Exscrew]

Just read the statement and FAQ and to be honest with you, seems like they haven’t got a clue either what will happen to employees. I guess we’re just at their mercy and the union’s

Where did you find it. Thanks

 

[Wolfie]

I presume that this proposed reorganisation, with direct state control of what passenger rail services are run and ticket prices, has only been possible as the UK is no longer a member of the EU, given their policy on rail competition.

The irony of that statement, which may well be in the main true, is that the EU policy on rail was to a large extent driven by a previous (Tory) UK government.

 

[usualmidlander]

Where did you find it. Thanks

On Myconnect

 

[Grumpy Git]

The irony of that statement, which may well be in the main true, is that the EU policy in rail was to a large extent driven by a previous Tory UK government.

Shush!

 

[Robertj21a]

TUPE only protects your T&Cs at the point of transfer. There is nothing to stop a business afterwards immediately doing a British Gas style re-org.

Why couldn't any business do that, whenever they please, anyway?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why couldn't any business do that, whenever they please, anyway?

They can.

 

[physics34]

Glad to hear the plans for standardisation and branding simplified. Its been bonkers over the past years.

Also mentions about improving seats.

Suggests it's also replacing the Trainline... is the Government is buying them out?

Trainlines share price has dropped 25% today

 

[The Planner]

Hi,
There are many rumours and bits of information from union reps who attended the talks with NR

What is clear, NR mid negotiation walked away and refused to discuss job cut reduction any further

The main theories from the signalling world is -
Aside from the compulsory redundancies which are set for this summer/autumn (there is a headcount target per devolved region)., all NR remaining staff will have their contracts cease at the end of 2021.
They will be offered GBR contracts on different (worse) T&Cs.
NR have let slip in one of the negotiations they are taking a keen interest in how British Gas carried out their fire and re hire re-organisation.
TSSA are asking questions which consultancy NR are using for this re-org, it’s rumoured to be the same one British Gas had hired for advise.

So you genuinely believe all of that is possible prior to the end of 2021? I want some of what you are smoking! Considering the amount of time and hoop jumping it takes just to get a new starter on board there is no chance of that happening. Consider the amount of consultation etc that requires.

 

[physics34]

Grant Shapps statement from the HoC at 11.30 on BBC Parliament. Probably just a read through of what we already know

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That was my initial thoughts.

TUPE only protects at the point of transfer.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

The irony of that statement, which may well be in the main true, is that the EU policy on rail was to a large extent driven by a previous (Tory) UK government.

EU rail policy is to a large extent based on the privatisation of British Rail in the 1990s, although TOCs can be state-owned.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Glad to hear the plans for standardisation and branding simplified. Its been bonkers over the past years.

Also mentions about improving seats.


Trainlines share price has dropped 25% today

I'd be fairly surprised if there wasn't still an API for other ticket sellers to use if they wanted. I suspect the reason for Trainline's share price dropping is that their business from licensing booking engines and apps to individual TOCs will cease, leaving only their own site.

Presumably, of course, Trainline will be able to bid for the new sales site, but if they lose it that's a huge chunk of their business gone.

 

[Trainer2]

So you genuinely believe all of that is possible prior to the end of 2021? I want some of what you are smoking! Considering the amount of time and hoop jumping it takes just to get a new starter on board there is no chance of that happening. Consider the amount of consultation etc that requires.

Hi,

Only passing on what I heard.

I agree with your conclusion it will take NR longer to sort itself out, I think it’s more likely if that’s the plan for a change in contracts and T&Cs it will by the end of 2023.
2021 will all be about getting rid of head count in the maintenance department.

I have been sent the NR response to the Williams report, it’s light on detail.

Worth noting in the Guardian on Saturday, in the Telegraph today, both stating Network Rail job cuts are coming.

DBS no cuts planned, if anything more staff required!

 

[Wolfie]

EU rail policy is to a large extent based on the privatisation of British Rail in the 1990s, although TOCs can be state-owned.

Exactly

 

[Iliketrains123]

I was so excited for nationalisation but unfortunately this isnt it. What a disappointment. Most commuters won't know a difference. For example GTR already have their fares set by the gov.

We were never going to get that. I don't know why you would get excited for it considering it had a 0% chance of happening.

 

[DarloRich]

Just read the statement and FAQ and to be honest with you, seems like they haven’t got a clue either what will happen to employees. I guess we’re just at their mercy and the union’s

The white paper wont cover detail. It is headline points and direction of travel. Any changes to staff will have to be defined, consulted and then implemented. It is clear from the white paper that is planned to be second half of 2023.

legislation is also needed to implement the white paper recommendations and while that wont be an issue there are defined timescales and stages to be completed before that can happen.

There is a lot of change coming and that is unsettling but as individuals we cant control any of that. Focus on what you can control.

 

[JaJaWa]

Video message from Grant Shapps MP here:

https://twitter.com/transportgovuk/status/1395283596408201218

 

[Dr Hoo]

Worth noting in the Guardian on Saturday, in the Telegraph today, both stating Network Rail job cuts are coming.

DBS no cuts planned, if anything more staff required!

DBS being...?

 

[WestRiding]

DBS being...?

DB Schenker...?

 

[SargeNpton]

The irony of that statement, which may well be in the main true, is that the EU policy on rail was to a large extent driven by a previous (Tory) UK government.

I see this quoted occasionally but can't find anything that backs it up. Is there a source?

I always thought that the EU policy to separate out the rail infrastructure owner and the train operator was EU policy - which was then jumped on by the Major government as the catalyst for splitting up BR.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Video message from Grant Shapps MP here:

https://twitter.com/transportgovuk/status/1395283596408201218

Why do we need to spend our "hard earned" on producing glossy videos (apart from making it look like the SoS is actually doing something)? That was almost like a party political broadcast, big on presentation, not so much in actual substance.

 

[Trainer2]

DB Schenker...?

Yes