Great British Railways: Replaces Network Rail & more changes - updates only (non-speculative)

[matt_world2004]

Hi,
There are many rumours and bits of information from union reps who attended the talks with NR

What is clear, NR mid negotiation walked away and refused to discuss job cut reduction any further

The main theories from the signalling world is -
Aside from the compulsory redundancies which are set for this summer/autumn (there is a headcount target per devolved region)., all NR remaining staff will have their contracts cease at the end of 2021.
They will be offered GBR contracts on different (worse) T&Cs.
NR have let slip in one of the negotiations they are taking a keen interest in how British Gas carried out their fire and re hire re-organisation.
TSSA are asking questions which consultancy NR are using for this re-org, it’s rumoured to be the same one British Gas had hired for advise.

One thing is certain, signalling world are set to strike and the frontline is happy to work to rule.
I have spoke with a good few NR staff in both worlds who are fed up with how the company has been ran badly.
No pay rise while working throughout Covid combined with the latest disaster re organisation called PPF (correct me if that is the wrong acronym) which created more senior management jobs and added more restrictions and bureaucracy.
The removal of red zone working also angered staff, now having to work more nights or in a green zone between trains making them less productive.
One gang told me they normally can patrol the area in 3 hours, now it takes all day as they have to take line blocks.

TUPE would prevent this surely

 

[Berliner]

The BBC article now specifically mentions

"It will see the creation of a new state-owned body, Great British Railways (GBR), which will set timetables and prices, sell tickets in England and manage rail infrastructure."

So this suggests there will still be an element of devolution Involved.

As someone who has just started thier career in rail I'm a bit confused as to what it all means for me personally.

 

[Bantamzen]

I have to say I'm fairly please at this news, if not the name (smacks of Brexit). However I am disappointed in a lack of a "what will the GBR livery look like" discussion here. Poor form RUK, poor form....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Aaahhhh, good old SaverStrips. Kerching!

I have to say I'm fairly please at this news, if not the name (smacks of Brexit). However I am disappointed in a lack of a "what will the GBR livery look like" discussion here. Poor form RUK, poor form....

There is already a thread on that.

 

[The Planner]

Best news I've heard in my 22 years on the railway. Now maybe I'll get my free travel back that I had to hand back when I moved from Central Trains to Railtrack (and then NR)

Like your optimism

 

[Essan]

The name to me just sounds like another thinly veiled attempt to drum up some patriotic hurrahs.

I have already seen people (with no interest in the railways) say just that. I think GB Rail would have been better. GB standing for Great Britain (the island) rather than appearing to glorify the British (people).

 

[Failed Unit]

Be interesting now with the changes if will be able to see any of cross-franchise cooperation again.

For example - will we be able to see some of the Cross Midlands services return such as Cleethorpes - Birmingham New Street. (Both XC and EMR use 170s so pooled units with the crew covering their own path) Before I get the barrage of no-one travels on this end to end, no they don't but lots of people did Nuneaton - Nottingham or Loughborough - Birmingham. If it really is going to be national with concessions then it could drive some great efficiencies and remove empty coaching stock movements.

I know driver / guard competencies will be a big issue, but Saturday Nottingham - Skegness could again be operated by slack in stock that would normally be used in the Monday = Friday peaks. I guess I am looking at what limited stuff is out and making 1+1 = 5

Hopefully we see a sensible rolling stock policy with cascades planned etc. We shouldn't really be in a position we have with the 379s where nearly new trains are about to get stored. Or new class like 331s getting ordered when the 365s still have life in them. (Lets not start on the SWT Sieman's stock)

 

[Bantamzen]

There is already a thread on that.

Ahhh, so there is. I stand corrected, you have saved the integrity of RUK @Bletchleyite

 

[GodAtum]

I was so excited for nationalisation but unfortunately this isnt it. What a disappointment. Most commuters won't know a difference. For example GTR already have their fares set by the gov.

 

[martin2345uk]

So what kind of impact will all this have on freight…?

 

[hwl]

TUPE would prevent this surely

Just for 2 years though???

 

[Joe96]

Might be too early to say yet but does anyone know what they mean by ‘set the timetable’? will TOCs train planning departments continue doing the same methods as now?

 

[The Planner]

So what kind of impact will all this have on freight…?

Either not a lot, or it will be an improvement if sensible timetabling decisions start to be made.

Might be too early to say yet but does anyone know what they mean by ‘set the timetable’? will TOCs train planning departments continue doing the same methods as now?

I doubt it means to the minute, but I suspect there will be more specific "x and y need an hourly train all day to each other in z minutes". The detail will be for TOC/NR/GBR to sort as now I imagine.

 

[Exscrew]

I really hope the government do not go down the same line as British gas and numerous others with the sack and sign. Its poor form and just adds more resentment.

 

[WestRiding]

TUPE would prevent this surely

That was my initial thoughts.

 

[LAX54]

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

The current privatised system is broken. I can't help but shake the feeling, however, that they're leaving the broken bits alone, and 'fixing' the stuff that already works.

The trains will be run by 'Private Contractors'...so a TOC then lol and then there is GBR.....no confusion there with GBRf is there
I assume for uniform with Net Rail, they will do the same as they did with RT / NR a little sacky sew on patch to go over Network Rail

 

[jon0844]

Anyone checked if Brookmans Park is now going to get 18tph?

 

[thejuggler]

The BBC article now specifically mentions

"It will see the creation of a new state-owned body, Great British Railways (GBR), which will set timetables and prices, sell tickets in England and manage rail infrastructure."

So this suggests there will still be an element of devolution Involved.

As someone who has just started thier career in rail I'm a bit confused as to what it all means for me personally.

Scottish government have responded. They weren't consulted and want full devolution of transport.

 

[alistairlees]

Scottish government have responded. They weren't consulted and want full devolution of transport.

Could you post a link

 

[387star]

Wasn't GTR already a contract? Is this similar?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

TUPE would prevent this surely

TUPE only protects your T&Cs at the point of transfer. There is nothing to stop a business afterwards immediately doing a British Gas style re-org.

 

[ainsworth74]

This is clearly a voluminous topic considering the potential scale of the reform so it will be necessary to have more than one thread most likely as the discussion develops. Already there is a length thread for that discussion here and so I would ask that any such further discussion be confined to that thread. As further significant topics come about please feel free to either start a separate discussion or report the a relevant post and provide a list of other posts that you think should be moved.

Whilst we will do our best to keep on top of this issue we do all have day jobs so can't babysit the Forum constantly so your patience if a significant tangent on a small issue does come about would be appreciated

 

[yorkie]

Here are some useful links:

• Great British Railways: Potential effects on new trains orders?
• Great British Railways: is revenue neutral fare reform possible?
• Great British Railways to replace Network Rail & more changes: thoughts, predictions, speculation
• Great British Railways: Livery, branding and appearance?
• Great British Railways: Implications of a single unified brand on schematic mapping

 

[thejuggler]

Could you post a link

It was just covered on 5 live.

 

[E100]

Can I check that there isn't any direct mention of the impacts on freight at this stage or are there benefits within the white paper stated for freight as well that the media have missed. This may also be worth a speculative thread if there is.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I wouldn't be so optmistic - I'm yet to see any suggestion that the withdrawal of the 442s will be "reviewed"

The HS2 rolling stock announcement is a long way off!

 

[reddragon]

Here are some useful links:

• Great British Railways: Potential effects on new trains orders?
• Great British Railways: is revenue neutral fare reform possible?
• Great British Railways to replace Network Rail & more changes: thoughts, predictions, speculation
• Great British Railways: Livery, branding and appearance?
• Great British Railways: Implications of a single unified brand on schematic mapping

Well done Mods for being quick off the mark with this (and the Class 8xx event)

 

[deltic]

Can I check that there isn't any direct mention of the impacts on freight at this stage or are there benefits within the white paper stated for freight as well that the media have missed. This may also be worth a speculative thread if there is.

The word freight appears 115 times in the White Paper compared to 322 mentions of passenger, 19 for staff. Most of the comments relating to freight are fairly generic

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Can I check that there isn't any direct mention of the impacts on freight at this stage or are there benefits within the white paper stated for freight as well that the media have missed. This may also be worth a speculative thread if there is.

The benefits are in simplified negotiation on train paths and railway admin and overheads generally.
There is mention of new infrastructure investment for freeports, with Ipswich-Felixstowe electrification mentioned, and other short in-fill schemes.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

There isn't any renationalisation really though. Currently trains are run by private companies, and they will continue to be so.

There seems to be endless confusion about terminology. Since "Privatisation" ownership of passenger rail operations has always been state owned, let on a fixed contract to a private operator. At the end of the contract operating rights revert to the owner - the state.

Is that privatised? If I rent your house do I own it?