Great Northern Weekend Cancellations

[jon0844]

The DfT should be taking action for this, or someone else. If they know the day before how many drivers they have, and what trains can and can't run, let the public know.

And when things are as bad as they are now (one hopes this is just for Christmas) it makes me wonder if they should adopt an emergency timetable instead.

To have 2 or 3 trains cancelled back to back means the next service will likely be crush loaded (on a Sunday, my trains are 4 car from King's Cross) and it doesn't matter that you get money back after just 15 minutes now. We're talking about the chance of having to wait 2 or 3 HOURS to get on a train, and then have a particularly uncomfortable journey.

I know GTR is just trying to ride things out. Once trains get back to some sense of normality in the new year, memories will fade until the summer holidays (and only then will the media take an interest again) and GTR obviously doesn't care how many people travel anyway. It doesn't get the fare box, so if people like me have said sod it and don't travel on Sunday (and only if I have to on Saturday) then that's not a problem.

In fact, GTR will make the same if every non-essential rail user buggers off into their car or uses the services of another operator. That's madness.

 

[jon0844]

That is the last thing the government should do - it's what ASLEF and the RMT want - the power to be negotiating with the government, which is why it should never happen.

The other problem it would introduce is the unions would then play havoc with any franchisee they didn't like and would start demanding the government get involved.

I am not saying the Government strips Govia of its contract, but it must start to lay down the law and find a way to punish a company that doesn't have any incentive to run trains efficiently or sell more tickets by providing a good and reliable service.

It knows it will make bugger all money from this contract now, so has pretty much decided to reduce all further losses.

I don't know the finer details of the contact, so maybe there are no clauses that can be invoked to fine/punish Govia. Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Carlisle]

That is the last thing the government should do - it's what ASLEF and the RMT want - the power to be negotiating with the government, which is why it should never happen.

The other problem it would introduce is the unions would then play havoc with any franchisee they didn't like and would start demanding the government get involved.

True, id like to think unions will always be a vital part of many company's industrial relations strategy ,unfortunately history proves that nearly always becomes counter productive when they believe they're so powerful they're virtually running the show , same goes for bad bosses, companies need to be far more proactive in demoting or removing them too

 

[HH]

I don't know the finer details of the contact, so maybe there are no clauses that can be invoked to fine/punish Govia. Wouldn't surprise me.

Plenty of clauses, but why would they want to? GoVia are doing as they're told.

 

[Failed Unit]

Plenty of clauses, but why would they want to? GoVia are doing as they're told.

You mean cutting passenger numbers by forcing them onto other means of transportation such as driving to Cockfosters / High Barnet.

 

[A0wen]

You mean cutting passenger numbers by forcing them onto other means of transportation such as driving to Cockfosters / High Barnet.

Except the passenger figures for the various stations on the GN line are continuing to show significant growth. So for every 1 or 2 people who decide to drive to High Barnet or Cockfosters, you have 9 or 10 new users of the train service, so it's still a net increase.

 

[Failed Unit]

Except the passenger figures for the various stations on the GN line are continuing to show significant growth. So for every 1 or 2 people who decide to drive to High Barnet or Cockfosters, you have 9 or 10 new users of the train service, so it's still a net increase.

Just think how good growth would be if.

1. They ran the advertised service
2. Stopped running 4 coach trains at weekends (or ran reliefs between wgc and London. Kx to mean people at potters bar, Hatfield could physically get on board)

 

[bramling]

Except the passenger figures for the various stations on the GN line are continuing to show significant growth. So for every 1 or 2 people who decide to drive to High Barnet or Cockfosters, you have 9 or 10 new users of the train service, so it's still a net increase.

I suspect things haven't, thusfar, come to a head because the worst has tended to be on weekends. We all know no one cares about what happens at weekends.

However, Great Northern has now started to go down the toilet on weekdays too. In my view that's more likely to have an effect.

As things stand at the moment, I will drive in to London at weekends. It annoys me, but I don't mind *too much* doing it. It avoids having to go on trains with all the weekend punters, who use the train once in a while and think everything revolves around them.

However, the moment my train starts becoming seriously unreliable in the week, and that point seems to be fast approaching, I'll be ditching the season ticket.

 

[Failed Unit]

I wish I could ditch them but that means ditching my job. (Something sadly people are doing on Southern).

The alternative the Piccadilly line is as bad at the moment and GN would need to significantly deteriorate on a weekday for the drive. (But is already at that level on the weekend)

The franchise seemed to nosedive this time last year when they started running to Moorgate. I guess they never factored in the increased resources. 387 operated services seem to be struggling as well.

 

[bramling]

I wish I could ditch them but that means ditching my job. (Something sadly people are doing on Southern).

The alternative the Piccadilly line is as bad at the moment and GN would need to significantly deteriorate on a weekday for the drive. (But is already at that level on the weekend)

The franchise seemed to nosedive this time last year when they started running to Moorgate. I guess they never factored in the increased resources. 387 operated services seem to be struggling as well.

For the last two weeks, my (weekday) up train to London has been late on four out of five days. In most cases this been not just a few minutes, but 15+ minutes. This sort of performance was *unheard of* under FCC. Coming home things have also been bad. I went for an entire *year* under FCC without a down train arriving home more than a few minutes late.

I wouldn't advocate using the Piccadilly Line as an alternative, but the Northern Line from High Barnet or Edgware is nowadays highly reliable, almost to "set your watch by it" standards.

Great Northern does have one advantage, which is that the parallel A1(M) has become a horrible road to use in recent years. Hertfordshire will quite literally grind to a halt if the population keeps increasing, as things stand at the moment it can only take one road being out of action to cause gridlock in certain areas. I'm fortunate that I rarely need to travel in the peak hours.

 

[A0wen]

Just think how good growth would be if.

1. They ran the advertised service
2. Stopped running 4 coach trains at weekends (or ran reliefs between wgc and London. Kx to mean people at potters bar, Hatfield could physically get on board)

To be fair to GTR the reason for the 4 car trains is not actually their fault - for many years the Cambridge and Peterboro' stoppers have been interworked diagrams and the stations north of Royston have short platforms.

 

[bramling]

To be fair to GTR the reason for the 4 car trains is not actually their fault - for many years the Cambridge and Peterboro' stoppers have been interworked diagrams and the stations north of Royston have short platforms.

They've had two years to find a way round this, and evidently haven't bothered. Weekdays is not an issue, but something could have been done at weekends.

 

[Tetchytyke]

To be fair to GTR the reason for the 4 car trains is not actually their fault - for many years the Cambridge and Peterboro' stoppers have been interworked diagrams and the stations north of Royston have short platforms.

If only there was some way of adding one unit to another unit, and then taking it off again at the other end, ready for the next journey...

 

[jon0844]

An even easier way to fix things, given ever increasing rail usage, is just to run TWO trains per hour on a Sunday. There has to be ample capacity, and (driver shortages aside) usage would probably rise as people realise Sunday is as easy to travel on as a Saturday.

But going forward, why not just run 387s and lock out the doors on one unit at those stations? Again, on a Sunday, there's little usage so even if it fouls some signals is that a problem that can't be dealt with?

I am frustrated GTR doesn't want to do anything until 2018.

 

[Failed Unit]

If only there was some way of adding one unit to another unit, and then taking it off again at the other end, ready for the next journey...

Or even using selective door operation on units such as the 317? But now they have more advanced SDO on the 387s GTR refuse to use it. I am sure the difference in the dwell time moving people at Royston is much less than they lose at the southern end of the route trying to cram everyone in

 

[jon0844]

Is there any reason they can't just run a near Saturday service on a Sunday? It would double capacity (and quadruple it if they ran 2tph with 8 car 387s using SDO!) and make it so much easier for passengers who must find it hard to time their return to King's Cross to get one train per hour to stations like Potters Bar, Hatfield or WGC (remembering that the slows now come out of Moorgate).

I know there's a cost issue, but it's not as if nobody travels on a Sunday anymore. Far from it. If there was a decent service, I'd probably prefer to travel into town on a Sunday more than on a Saturday!

 

[Failed Unit]

They already have a halfway house on Sunday. Until nearly midday heading into London and from 1600 running out. Some 8 cars as well if I recall (going to letchworth)

I am sure if the letchworth services were known to passengers they would pick the out over the cambridge ones.

 

[bramling]

They already have a halfway house on Sunday. Until nearly midday heading into London and from 1600 running out. Some 8 cars as well if I recall (going to letchworth)

I am sure if the letchworth services were known to passengers they would pick the out over the cambridge ones.

I can't see any Letchworth services on the down, however there are 3x morning services starting at Letchworth. The 3x extra afternoon services all run to Cambridge. As far as I can tell they're all booked for 4 cars only.

Indeed, at weekends I can only spot two 'stopping' services which are formed of anything other than 4 cars, both up services on Saturday evenings, and doubtlessly for positioning purposes.

Personally I'm not bothered about frequency. It's always been the case that Sunday has a reduced service in order to keep costs down and reduce the amount of staff needing to work. However, train lengths should be adequate, and the simple fact is that on GN they're not.

Having said all this, it wasn't so many years ago that the GN Saturday timetable had just one eight-car service!

 

[Hadders]

Sundays are becoming the new Saturday as far as travel into London on the GN route is concerned! GTR really should be looking at increasing the length of trains in the short term before the 2018 timetable recast.

FCC was much maligned but at least the service was reliable and they made an effort to sort out weekday capacity which was generally successful. GTR just seem not to care.

 

[HH]

GTR just seem not to care.

Or is it that they're not on revenue risk?

To be fair, I've had some dealings with GTR and I get the feeling that they're just not very competent. Often a small number of key staff can make the difference between a well-run operation and one that doesn't seem to have a clue. GTR seem to have mislaid those key staff...

 

[jon0844]

Once morale goes, the good people leave (on the basis that they're maybe more able to). The people who just want to keep their head down and take their pay will stay, while others may not succeed in getting other jobs.

Obviously I'm generalising and not suggesting that anyone who is still working for GTR is only doing so because they couldn't get another job, but you know what I mean. It's common for all businesses and usually means things just go downhill more and more.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Any idea what an 'enhanced Saturday' service this Thursday means on Great Northern? Does the 'enhancement' mean they're putting drivers on trains and not cancelling them?

 

[Failed Unit]

Some peak extras between Moorgate and WGc. Hopefully no single 387s

 

[Sleepy]

Good luck if you are travelling with them this afternoon / evening as multiple cancellations listed due to shortage of drivers.

 

[Hadders]

Came through Kings Cross earlier and there were a whole raft of cancellations showing on the boards. A check of GN's website even shows a cancellation on one of the post midnight departures.

Not good for New Years Eve. To their credit GN are running extra trains after midnight with the last departure at 0220. Let's hope they have the drivers to run them.

 

[bramling]

Came through Kings Cross earlier and there were a whole raft of cancellations showing on the boards. A check of GN's website even shows a cancellation on one of the post midnight departures.

Not good for New Years Eve. To their credit GN are running extra trains after midnight with the last departure at 0220. Let's hope they have the drivers to run them.

All very well running special services, however how about running the normal timetable first?

 

[Hadders]

Cancellations due to a lack of drivers seem to be back with a vengeance today. Natrually there's next to no information on GN's website...

 

[bramling]

Cancellations due to a lack of drivers seem to be back with a vengeance today. Natrually there's next to no information on GN's website...

Seems to be the case all over the show this weekend ... for example the Piccadilly Line has been decimated too for the same reason of lack of available train crews.

 

[Class 170101]

Take a look outside. Its warm and sunny.

 

[jon0844]

Maybe fathers day? Drivers would need to volunteer in advance (I assume they didn't all call in sick) so they didn't necessarily predict the weather. For that I'd expect July and August to be far worse.

 

[Class 170101]

Maybe fathers day? Drivers would need to volunteer in advance (I assume they didn't all call in sick) so they didn't necessarily predict the weather. For that I'd expect July and August to be far worse.

Sunny weekend predicted for the past week. But agree with Father's Day comment.