Great Western Electrification extension suggestions

[R G NOW.]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/great-western-electrification-progress.83452/

I Would like to see an extension of the electrification of the GWML to include Bromsgrove to Yate. and into the west end of Gloucester station. Also from standish junction to Swindon. This would allow trains to run from Cheltenham to London under wires. I hope the DFT will look at providing the 1.4 billion cost, that I heard from station staff, as would allow cross country to run duel power trains from Manchester down to BTM under wires. Note that the signalling would need to be upgraded first.

 

[S-Bahn]

I Would like to see an extension of the electrification of the GWML to include Bromsgrove to Yate. and into the west end of Gloucester station. Also from standish junction to Swindon. This would allow trains to run from Cheltenham to London under wires. I hope the DFT will look at providing the 1.4 billion cost, that I heard from station staff, as would allow cross country to run duel power trains from Manchester down to BTM under wires. Note that the signalling would need to be upgraded first.

It's entirely logical for the long term goal to be to wire as much as of the cross country route as possible and use Bi-modes.

I'd go all the way from Bromsgrove to Exeter and down via Banbury/Oxford/Basingstoke to reach Southampton Docks, as the freight would benefit too.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It's entirely logical for the long term goal to be to wire as much as of the cross country route as possible and use Bi-modes.

I'd go all the way from Bromsgrove to Exeter and down via Banbury/Oxford/Basingstoke to reach Southampton Docks, as the freight would benefit too.

Yes one would hope for more infills. But I expect first to be considered will be the parts of electrification that were postponed - extensions to Oxford and maybe Swansea. In my dreams as many as possible of the Bi-Mode IETs would then get cascaded to cross country .

 

[deltic08]

I Would like to see an extension of the electrification of the GWML to include Bromsgrove to Yate. and into the west end of Gloucester station. Also from standish junction to Swindon. This would allow trains to run from Cheltenham to London under wires. I hope the DFT will look at providing the 1.4 billion cost, that I heard from station staff, as would allow cross country to run duel power trains from Manchester down to BTM under wires. Note that the signalling would need to be upgraded first.

If Gloucester station is done then go the whole hog and continue from Gloucester to Severn Tunnel Junction that is all simple plain line wiring. This would allow Cardiff-Paddington diversions, Nottingham-Cardiff XC and Gloucester-Cardiff locals to be electric.

 

[59CosG95]

Personally, I'd like the wires on the B&H to be extended westwards beyond Newbury, towards Bedwyn & Westbury; coupled with the electrification of Acton Yard & the Poplar Branch Line, this would allow many of the stone flows between London (and its environs) & the Mendips to be electrically-hauled. This would of course require the existing power supply on the B&H to be beefed up from being boosterless classic to Autotransfomer Fed (as per the original plan).

This would then, in stages, be used to extend wires on the Wessex Main Line to Bathampton Junction, and on the single-track route via Melksham to Chippenham.
Henceforth, if wires were extended to the Portishead Branch, the Severn Beach line, and Weston-super-Mare, the Greater Bristol Metro could be a majority-electric operation.

 

[Aictos]

If Gloucester station is done then go the whole hog and continue from Gloucester to Severn Tunnel Junction that is all simple plain line wiring. This would allow Cardiff-Paddington diversions, Nottingham-Cardiff XC and Gloucester-Cardiff locals to be electric.

Umm how can the Nottingham to Cardiff’s be electric? Are you not missing the fact that Nottingham to Birmingham is NOT electrified?

 

[59CosG95]

Umm how can the Nottingham to Cardiff’s be electric? Are you not missing the fact that Nottingham to Birmingham is NOT electrified?

I suspect @deltic08 is hinging on the fact that Birmingham-Nottingham may be electrified. Unlikely, but possible.

 

[R G NOW.]

I suspect @deltic08 is hinging on the fact that Birmingham-Nottingham may be electrified. Unlikely, but possible.

I don't think you have read post 1 at the top of this thread.

 

[R G NOW.]

We will have to see when we get to the 31st of October and see if the government will be swimming in money. After the Brexit happens. Lets hope the DFT will see sense and consider more schemes.

 

[Athelstan]

Rather than piecemeal wishlists, we should have a clear view of this out to 2040 and decarbonisation.

EVERY line should either get overhead wires (if there is enough traffic to justify it) or get hydrogen / battery hybrid trains.

Everything has to change, so why can’t we plan it all now and do it in an orderly, integrated way. The cost can be forecast (approximately!!) and spread over many years.

Stop-go electrification with gaps creates huge peaks and troughs in work and in skilled jobs. In every trough, knowledge and skills are lost. Stop-go electrification would probably cost twice as much as a sensible long term plan with continuous but slow progress.

I’m not holding my breath for this level of rationality from the politicians, mind.

 

[Optom1]

A strategic plan makes obvious sense, but cost/benefit can only be made on a line for line basis /rolling stock availability.

In the short term postponed Great Western CP5 plans will probably be given preference.

In the medium term, lines that can justify 4 trains each way per hour using existing rolling stock and needing minimal civil engineering works ( also reliable diversion routes) could be a priority.

Newbury-Bedwyn (8 overbridges) Cardiff-Bridgend (17 overbridges).

Most of the bridges seem to have good clearance, does anybody have any further information on these routes?

 

[option]

Few obvious ones, essentially finishing off from the ends;
Cardiff - Swansea
Severn Beach - Temple Meads - Taunton
Didcot - Banbury
the small branches at London end
(that then converts most GWR journeys to fully electric)

Taunton - Westbury - Bath Spa (this would open up possibility of a circular service from Bristol)

If Southampton - Basingstoke conversion happened, then Basingstoke - Reading is obvious infill.

I would have dropped Newbury & Chippenham.

 

[MatthewRead]

Few obvious ones, essentially finishing off from the ends;
Cardiff - Swansea
Severn Beach - Temple Meads - Taunton
Didcot - Banbury
the small branches at London end
(that then converts most GWR journeys to fully electric)

Taunton - Westbury - Bath Spa (this would open up possibility of a circular service from Bristol)

If Southampton - Basingstoke conversion happened, then Basingstoke - Reading is obvious infill.

I would have dropped Newbury & Chippenham.

Electrifying the Greenford Branch would be tricky as would Marlow.

 

[swt_passenger]

Southampton to Basingstoke conversion would never realistically happen independently of Reading to Basingstoke though.

 

[Optom1]

Bridgend to Swansea has a few problems due to to the steel trains from Margam to Llanwern needing a reliable service during electrification.Prior to cancellation of the wires,Tondu to Margam was being surveyed with a view to reopening to solve this problem.Cardiff to Bridgend could have 2 trains each way minimum under the wires if the 769s could be used on the Maesteg services

 

[deltic08]

Umm how can the Nottingham to Cardiff’s be electric? Are you not missing the fact that Nottingham to Birmingham is NOT electrified?

Neither is south of Bromsgrove yet. By the time it is, so will Nottingham-Derby-Birmingham be.

 

[R G NOW.]

If Gloucester station is done then go the whole hog and continue from Gloucester to Severn Tunnel Junction that is all simple plain line wiring. This would allow Cardiff-Paddington diversions, Nottingham-Cardiff XC and Gloucester-Cardiff locals to be electric.

I suppose that the bridges at Oakle street and Grange court would need to be raised, also is Newnham tunnel high enough
to take wires. Lastly the covered way by Chepstow, is this high enough. The rest would be a piece of cake really.

 

[Optom1]

The benefit cost ratio of Newbury to Bedwyn(2 making it worthy of consideration) was over 2,whilst Bedwyn to Westbury was only0.23 With two three coach units an hour each way my guess is B/C.ratio would be pretty low as things stand for S.T.J. to Gloucester.

 

[Ken H]

To me the ratio between miles to wire:miles of overhead is the one to look at. You might have to weight that with any difficulties.

yes I know bi-modes have changed the rules, but dragging diesel engines about cant be sensible. So Cardiff-Swansea should be a goer and you could replace some bi-modes. But then Maesteg becomes feasable as most of the route is already wired.

 

[Bald Rick]

To me the ratio between miles to wire:miles of overhead is the one to look at. You might have to weight that with any difficulties.

yes I know bi-modes have changed the rules, but dragging diesel engines about cant be sensible. So Cardiff-Swansea should be a goer and you could replace some bi-modes. But then Maesteg becomes feasable as most of the route is already wired.

The case for Cardiff Swansea was appalling, particularly in the context of an all bi-mode fleet. Hence it was dropped.

 

[deltic08]

I suppose that the bridges at Oakle street and Grange court would need to be raised, also is Newnham tunnel high enough to take wires. Lastly the covered way by Chepstow, is this high enough. The rest would be a piece of cake really.

There are many more bridges than Oakle Street and Grange Court starting with the A48 bridge near Gloucester, another at Bullo, Mile Bridge west of Lydney and Tidenham and that is only east of Chepstow that I can think of.
I don't know about Newnham Tunnel, but it was built for broad gauge, and I assume the A48 Chepstow bypass cover over at Sedbury was done to 25kv clearances. As you say, apart from bridges this is a simple route to wire with only 4 loops in total.

 

[anthony263]

Certainly Cardiff to swansea should be wired as some freight and local services could go to electric operations same with the ebbw vale branch.

Steel trains could use the margam to tondu line

 

[Aictos]

Certainly Cardiff to swansea should be wired as some freight and local services could go to electric operations same with the ebbw vale branch.

Steel trains could use the margam to tondu line

Are we talking just electrifying to Swansea via the Up/Down Mains only OR are we also going to include the Up/Down Avoiding Line with the Up/Down Loop Line as far as Gowerton or even Llanelli with all three sides of the triangle being electrified for operational reasons?

 

[anthony263]

I say electrify bthe landore triangle too

 

[Optom1]

X country has 5 HST sets getting long in the tooth.If these are replaced by hybrids(plus extra sets to relieve voyager overcrowding),Cardiff toTaunton became e.m.u.’s and Paddington to Taunton Via Weston continued as IEP’s then Bristol to Taunton could meet cost /benefit requirements.They would have to sort out the single line working from Worle Jnc toWeston first

 

[R G NOW.]

There are many more bridges than Oakle Street and Grange Court starting with the A48 bridge near Gloucester, another at Bullo, Mile Bridge west of Lydney and Tidenham and that is only east of Chepstow that I can think of.
I don't know about Newnham Tunnel, but it was built for broad gauge, and I assume the A48 Chepstow bypass cover over at Sedbury was done to 25kv clearances. As you say, apart from bridges this is a simple route to wire with only 4 loops in total.

You say 4 loops but I think there is now only 2, unless they have been put back.

 

[deltic08]

You say 4 loops but I think there is now only 2, unless they have been put back.

One each side at Lydney definitely because I was there only 6 weeks ago. I haven't looked for the one on the Up at Grange Court for some time even using the train in June. There was one at Portskewett on the Down I think but again haven't been that way for ages so you may be right.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Southampton to Basingstoke conversion would never realistically happen independently of Reading to Basingstoke though.

I would argue that is a CP5 hold over and thus highish priority anyway.

 

[swt_passenger]

I would argue that is a CP5 hold over and thus highish priority anyway.

I agree, I was responding to an earlier post that suggested that if they did Basingstoke to Southampton first then Basingstoke to Reading would become an "infill". I just don't see it happening in the "wrong order", IYSWIM...

 

[The Ham]

From another thread:

I'd include in that list some of the B&H and the potential for some wires to allow EMU running around Bristol and maybe even Exeter.

Longer term wires to allow Portsmouth to Cardiff services (the gap is basically Bath to Southampton) which would also benefit Southampton to Salisbury services, as well as keying in with a Basingstoke to Salisbury or even Yeovil project to remove a lot of diesel services from Waterloo.

Likewise longer term keying in with Paignton to Birmingham electrification to benefit XC and GWR services.

That would mean that London to Plymouth would be mostly under wires and even London Penzance could be just over 50% under wires.

However to continue the discussion much further would likely require a new thread to be created.