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Great Western Electrification Progress
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GRALISTAIR
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Is Swindon or bust as quickly as possible the "official" word?
Class 170101
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Via Doncaster would be faster. Mathematically London to Doncaster in 96 minutes plus Sheffield to Doncaster in 25 minutes = 121 minutes at using Voyager and Mark IV timings, of course either a reversal time at Doncaster required or avoid Doncaster altogther using the south chord there.
Gwenllian2001
Member
Is it just me or has the Great Western moved to another part of the country?
Busaholic
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As a non-railwayman, I thought the File on Four revelation about the length of the new carriages being 26 metres rather than the traditional 23 (?) principally to save on bogie wear and tear without taking into account the platform alterations (and worse) that would have to be made as a result was the most telling and scandalous of their report, which as always with that programme was professionally made without hyperbole and got to the nitty gritty. Heads rolling? As ever, not a chance, maybe a bonus or two cut by a token amount.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Something's not quite right here.
The IEP programme has always included clearance work for the routes they will work and my understanding is that this is not a vast figure (relative to the cost of the trains) and is part of the introduction plan (project W002a in the CP5 plan).
File on 4 seemed to be alluding to particular problems with some of the clearances at Bristol TM - maybe because of deciding to ditch the Midland terminus platforms.
It's not in the same league as "forgetting" that the Paddington-Airport Jn OHLE would need upgrading for 125mph (ditto St Pancras-Bedford on the MML).
The economics of 26m coaches will be better than 23m (just as 23m is better than 20m).
23m Mk3/4s also required extra clearance work when they were introduced. Was that work wasted?
26m is also a standard length offered by manufacturers - shorter coaches may actually turn out more expensive.
route:oxford
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Since when was 23 metres the tradition?
We've had 18M (ish) and 20M (ish) for much much longer than 23M ever was the tradition...
Indeed, you could say it was traditional in the UK to embrace improvements in engineering and extend the length of the coach every few generations.
No (see my 1111) but no one is paying attention. Now they are on about 26m coaches and I don't know what is electric about that either?
The last few posts of this thread, whilst interesting, are rather off-topic. So could anyone who wishes to continue to discuss the length of Class 800s do so on this thread which was set up with that express (see what I did there 
) purpose.
This thread is for discussing the ongoing electrification of the GWML and further off-topic posts will be deleted.
Despite repeated attempts the Staff Team have been unable to perfect telepathy)), failing that we do try to read every post made on the forum but considering the volume made it is almost impossible for us to do that either (though we do pretty well on the whole). Therefore if anyone sees threads which are going wildly off-topic please report (
) them as this generates a message to all of us so ensures we're aware of what's going on.
Many thanks to all
) purpose. This thread is for discussing the ongoing electrification of the GWML and further off-topic posts will be deleted.
Despite repeated attempts the Staff Team have been unable to perfect telepathy
)), failing that we do try to read every post made on the forum but considering the volume made it is almost impossible for us to do that either (though we do pretty well on the whole). Therefore if anyone sees threads which are going wildly off-topic please report (
Many thanks to all
I think it would make more sense to to target Airport Junction-Reading, Reading-Newbury and Reading-Oxford. With the first Class 700 being delivered next month and apparently one a week from early 2016, the rolling stock cascade may start to happen in late 2016. We have all heard the negativity about the GWML electrification recently, at least if the above has been completed by Dec 2016 there will be something positive to say, but I think this is a long shot. When I last travelled on this route last month my feeling was that we might see some wiring between Didcot and Reading by the end of this year, if we are lucky.
Anyway, I will be making two trips, London to Bristol and London to Cardiff in the next six weeks, so I will update this thread then.
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MarlowDonkey
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If they want to move much of the 165/166 fleet to the West of England, they need to be able to electrify Paddington to Oxford. Airport Junction to Reading is needed for Crossrail. What they will do with electric IEPs if they can only run to Oxford remains to be seen.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Newbury is also needed for Crossrail which is why I agree with the above list by 76020.
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59CosG95
Established Member
Really? I was under the impression that Crossrail was only going as far as Reading. GWR (or FGW at the moment) will need it to go to Newbury.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
That is the case.
TheKnightWho
Established Member
Frankly, extensions to Oxford and Newbury would make a lot of sense, but I can't see it happening.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Who on Earth wants to do Newbury to Shenfield or Abbey Wood on a toilet-less Class 345, let alone Newbury to Paddington? It's quite some time on a slow train from Reading to Paddington, wouldn't want to endure it all the way from Newbury or Oxford!
No, leave CrossRail as it is reaching Reading, that'll do just fine. Next we'll be proposing extensions at peak times from the extreme parts of the Western Region...
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
OK so please pardon my ignorance - I keep seeing maps in official documents that shows electrification to Newbury. Was this approved as part of GWML electrification then?
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Indeed, nothing to do with CrossRail at all If CrossRail want to pay for it though...
If CrossRail want to pay for it though...
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
OK - when I was younger all info was at my finger tips. Now I am older and live in the USA so not quite as easy to keep up.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Weren't Newbury and Oxford approved before Bristol and Cardiff, and Swansea later still, but all within a year or so? Nothing like giving people some certainty to plan against...
The Planner
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Tfl wont entertain that, if someone offered them a golden ticket to go back to Maidenhead they would take it.
TheKnightWho
Established Member
Of course not, but frankly it seems ridiculous when you have Thameslink going out considerably further.
Works update from a trip back from out west this morning.
Swindon - Didcot I'd say the majority of foundations are in.
Didcot - Reading, almost all foundations, and around half the masts are in. Many portals are up too.
Reading - Airport Jn, not as much done as I expected, although piling teams were working this morning on the down side; I saw 4 separate gangs and a train loaded with piles ready to go in.
Reading area itself had most of the masts up, although I guess this was done concurrent with the remodelling.
Caveat, I was looking at the down side only!
Swindon - Didcot I'd say the majority of foundations are in.
Didcot - Reading, almost all foundations, and around half the masts are in. Many portals are up too.
Reading - Airport Jn, not as much done as I expected, although piling teams were working this morning on the down side; I saw 4 separate gangs and a train loaded with piles ready to go in.
Reading area itself had most of the masts up, although I guess this was done concurrent with the remodelling.
Caveat, I was looking at the down side only!
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
The approvals too a long while to clarify.
Andrew Adonis initially approved the full scheme in 2009 (including the cascade of 319s to the Thames Valley), but the Coalition paused all major projects for a review in 2010.
They then progressively re-approved Crossrail (to Maidenhead) at the end of 2010, then Oxford/Newbury, then Bristol and eventually Cardiff in 2011.
It took another year until the 2012 HLOS for Swansea to get back on the list, along with some GW branches and a whole lot of other schemes.
But actually, all these approvals were only as far as the next big spending point.
NR never had carte blanche to do the work without submitting detailed costs for approval.
ORR is the arbiter of costs and plans, linked to NR's GRIP process.
These approvals have currently stalled.
TheKnightWho
Established Member
Didcot-Oxford had around 50% of the foundations done when looking today too.
No, just plausible journalistic reports, one of which was published shortly before the government announced its "pause" of MML and TP electrification.
Quite. People seem to forget that it's going to cost more in the long term to run 6+ carriage deisel trains, damage the environment a lot more and increase reliance on a not-so-secure energy source. But does the Great Western electrification remove more diesel inefficiency? Well probably. But why we can't have the national priorities right to do both I don't understand...
It seems that we lack the engineering skills base and engineering capacity to do more than one scheme at a time. When the industrial economy was dismantled in the 1980's technical education was trashed too. It seems the experienced engineers that we still had all went abroad. We are left with an engineering based industry that is run by lawyers and accountants and marketing experts. Of course that should be ok according to the neo-liberals because the 'market' will take care of everything, and if we REALLY need electrical engineers and technicians SO badly and URGENTLY then we will be prepared TO PAY for them at world market rates and recruit them from abroad, just like we do for the best financial experts (I gather that the head of the Bank of England is a Canadian and they had to pay for him because they could not find anyone good enough within the UK).
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
I just hope we learn the lessons of history. Those that do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. We need a prolonged continuous rolling programme of electrification so that we slowly regain the skills and do not lose them.
dysonsphere
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They wont learn try getting any form of training if youre over 40 let alone 50 all thats on offer is Englisg, Maths, IT to level 2 ie CSE level. You want anything else better have deep pockets to pay for it youre self. Many HGV 1 drivers are packing it in rather than do a week long course costing £600 + to prove they can do what they have done all there life. most are in their 60`s. As im single and unemployed with many skills but no bits of paper, to old to have them no one is intrested. I dont know where all this training money the goverment claims to be spending but theres no sign of it at the sharp end.
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