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Greater Anglia 2019 - What could possibly go wrong?

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F Great Eastern

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As someone who used to use the buffet I was surprised they bothered to retain it at all on the 745's. It serves very poor quality food and coffee at vast prices on a 2 hour max route. With so much choice in stations (and usually some even better quality independents outside stations) it's largely unnecessary. I'm sure some of the enthusiasts will miss it and those in a rush with no time to stock up beforehand but it's a move we've seen a lot of over the years and will see more of all over the network.

I have used the buffet perhaps twice in the last 3 years.

Both times were when I was running from a connecting train or from a tube onto a Norwich service when I had no time to pick up anything at the station. There is nothing appealing for me on the GA buffet. I used GWR buffets a bit more when they had them on services to Penzance, but then again that's a longer journey and honestly the food was better.
 
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trebor79

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As someone who used to use the buffet I was surprised they bothered to retain it at all on the 745's. It serves very poor quality food and coffee at vast prices on a 2 hour max route. With so much choice in stations (and usually some even better quality independents outside stations) it's largely unnecessary. I'm sure some of the enthusiasts will miss it and those in a rush with no time to stock up beforehand but it's a move we've seen a lot of over the years and will see more of all over the network.
Disagree. It's very useful to be able to buy some breakfast on the train, and I often partake in a cup of tea or coffee and a snack on the way home in the evening.
Now, when they still had a restaurant car, the breakfasts were something else, but those days are never coming back, regardless of how misty eyed I get.
This cull is far less swingeing than I feared, although those early morning departures must be very quiet, or I'd have thought the buffet would do quite brisk business.
 

ashkeba

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Buffets? They should bring back the restaurant service! That was a real treat breakfast until NX got hold of it.

If done well, it could emcourage tourism to Norwich and Ipswich. I have chosen between trains/destinations to enjoy the nice food sometimes. I doubt I am the only one.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Buffets? They should bring back the restaurant service! That was a real treat breakfast until NX got hold of it.

If done well, it could emcourage tourism to Norwich and Ipswich. I have chosen between trains/destinations to enjoy the nice food sometimes. I doubt I am the only one.

The kitchens also took up a vast amount of space on what is predominantly a commuter railway. Passengers wanted more seats, hence the conversions of the kitchen area of the buffets into seats.
 

Sleepy

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GA have announced that the on train catering offer on the London - Norwich route will be reduced from January. The service will be withdrawn from the 05:00 and 05:30 SX & SO and 06:00 SO from Norwich to Liverpool Street and the return workings from Liv St and all services on Sundays. https://www.edp24.co.uk/business/greater-anglia-to-cut-catering-from-some-trains-1-6417952
The 0500 and 0530 tend to be populated by passengers that mainly want to sleep, the poor sales figures reflect this - 0730 / 0755 return from Liverpool Street has low loadings anyway. Sundays is a strange decision as many services quite busy for catering but obviously seen as easy way to cut costs as it is outside GA working week. The days of catering being part of overall rail longer distance package could be numbered - look at the way GWR gone mainly trolley only ?
 

jamesontheroad

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The early morning trains are precisely the ones that depart Norwich before any of the station coffee outlets are open. I have long had a similar beef with the ex-NRW EMT and EMR trains to Liverpool... catch the 05:50 or 06:50 train and I’m gasping for caffeine by the time a trolley boards in Nottingham.

Is the decision to end Sunday catering influenced by something contractual - do catering staff still get paid more for working Sundays, holidays etc?
 

dk1

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Is the decision to end Sunday catering influenced by something contractual - do catering staff still get paid more for working Sundays, holidays etc?
Sundays are outside the working week so it is overtime. During the last few years engineering work has seriously affected the GEML and catering revenue reflects this. Everything is sourced from Norwich so has often ended up with none on Sundays depending on the block location. Some staff with booked Sunday then have to be offered additional customer service duties.
 

RailWonderer

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It’s ironic how the 5 car GWR 800s that do 5 hour journeys to Plymouth only have a trolley and the 745s have a full buffet for only 1hr 45 min journeys. It’s down to consumer consultant groups, surveys and whether the operator listens to them. The Anglia region has a staunch core that wanted a proper IC route. Why not? 12 cars provide more than enough capacity, it’s useful to have it there, and some people will be willing to use it.
 

ashkeba

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It’s ironic how the 5 car GWR 800s that do 5 hour journeys to Plymouth only have a trolley and the 745s have a full buffet for only 1hr 45 min journeys. It’s down to consumer consultant groups, surveys and whether the operator listens to them. The Anglia region has a staunch core that wanted a proper IC route. Why not? 12 cars provide more than enough capacity, it’s useful to have it there, and some people will be willing to use it.
It is not really ironic. GWR's Cornish and Welsh Intercity customers doing long journeys are outnumbered by Thames Valley commuters in every consultation and even more now that local trains are part of the same franchise. If GA Intercity services stopped at more Essex stations, I expect the new trains would not have buffets either. There seems little wish to balance utility for everyone against crude volume of numbers in railway consultations recently. If it was not law, would PRM access still be improved or would we see numbers used to justify fitting other things in the space instead?
 

eastdyke

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After the questions a rather well written IMO, and probably in many ways realistic, piece by Paul Geater in East Anglian Daily Times today. As befits election day, it is not pointing too hard at GA, although that is the underlying message:
https://www.eadt.co.uk/ea-life/greater-anglia-problems-1-6417783
The other issue that has been dominating headlines in this part of the world over the last week or so is the major problem that has hit Greater Anglia trains - especially its rural trains.

The company and Network Rail is still trying to find out what exactly is causing the problems with the signalling and the ability of track sensors to pick up what is happening on the lines.

As I write this, nothing has been definitively proved to be the cause of the problems - but there is considerable circumstantial evidence that they are linked to the introduction of the new Stadler bimode trains on rural services across the region.

While Greater Anglia insists the new trains are only one element that they and Network Rail are looking at, the fact that freight trains are operating normally to Felixstowe, that main-line services seem to be unaffected, and - especially - that East Midlands Railway trains from Norwich to Peterborough, the midlands and north west are operating normally suggests that other rail professionals think the new trains are an important factor.

I can't say I'm totally surprised. I've been an interested observer of the national rail scene for decades (as well as writing about the industry in this region).

I cannot remember any rail company introducing a major fleet of new trains without some teething troubles showing up which causes widespread (but usually fairly short-term) disruption for passengers.

Sometimes the problems do linger - London Overground has been trying to introduce new Bombardier Aventra trains for more than a year and there have been all kinds of problems forcing delay after delay.

These type of trains have also been bought by Greater Anglia for its suburban services and while 100 have been built, none have yet been seen in this part of the world and there is no exact date yet planned for their introduction.

I've seen them under construction at Derby. They don't look at all bad for suburban trains and I think passengers will find them comfortable. But there's a long way to go before we see them working properly on our tracks.

But that is so far in the future, I'm sure no one at Greater Anglia is going to bed at night worrying about the Aventras . . . yet!

What could be causing sleepless nights is the impending introduction of the new Intercity trains on the main line from Ipswich and Norwich to London.

These are mechanically very similar to the bimodes which are probably a major cause of the issues we are seeing on the network at present.

The Intercity trains were due to have been introduced "during the autumn" but have been conspicuous by their absence. Today Greater Anglia are still saying they would like to see them enter service before the end of the year.

Given the problems at present and the approaching Christmas season, I suspect we're more likely to see the Polar Express than a Stadler 12-car Intercity on the main line before the end of the year.

It's also clear that the existing Intercity trains are not going to be sent away too early - the new ones are all due to be in service by the end of March. The word I've heard is that the old ones are likely to be kept in the depot (or in storage on the Mid Norfolk Railway) for a few weeks in case any major problems emerge.

As I said earlier, Greater Anglia is not unique in having problems with the introduction of a new train fleet - and the indications I'm getting is that they are reasonably confident they should find solutions before too long.

That would be good. Sometimes companies have taken months to get trains running properly - the new trains on the East Coast Main Line and Great Western have taken much longer than first planned and passengers on both the Southern and Northern franchises have suffered for years as companies struggle to introduce new carriages.

That doesn't help now. And with passengers facing delays in cold, wet, miserable weather it is understandable that Greater Anglia should come under fire.

I suspect that once the issues are resolved, passengers will come to love the new trains and the new journey opportunities they bring. But if anyone at Greater Anglia really thought a fleet of more than 100 brand new trains could come in with no teething troubles, they were being a tad optimistic!
 

NoMorePacers

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I happened to go (or at least try to go) onto the two most affected services today with some accomplices (the Intercity and the Rural lines).

What an utter, utter farce.
 

Panupreset

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It was another horrific day. Overheads down on Southend line and then big signalling failure at Bethnal Green, 1-12 out of action at Liverpool Street nothing able to use the main or suburban for about an hour.
 

Panupreset

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It was another horrific day. Overheads down on Southend line and then big signalling failure at Bethnal Green, 1-12 out of action at Liverpool Street nothing able to use the main or suburban for about an hour.
 

Geswedey

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RE catering, Don't forget that Stansted Express sets will operate on some Norwich Liverpool Street services to enable them to access Crown Point for maintenance, The 0500 from Nrw was certainly expected to be a STEX unit when I worked for GA
 

Bikeman78

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RE catering, Don't forget that Stansted Express sets will operate on some Norwich Liverpool Street services to enable them to access Crown Point for maintenance, The 0500 from Nrw was certainly expected to be a STEX unit when I worked for GA
Yes it arrives platform 8 at 0654 and forms the 0725 Stansted. Meanwhile the 0708 arrival from Stansted arrives on platform 9 and forms the 0730 Norwich. Preumably the latter will be a Norwich line set that has spent the night in London.
 

jamesontheroad

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An unsubstantiated tweet from someone (in reply to something from Richard Clinnick) made the following statement yesterday:

Problems after problems with #greateranglia another problem simmering in the background is the problems with #NCP and parking at its stations
Would anyone care to share any further insight into what might be happening?
 

ashkeba

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An unsubstantiated tweet from someone (in reply to something from Richard Clinnick) made the following statement yesterday:

Problems after problems with #greateranglia another problem simmering in the background is the problems with #NCP and parking at its stations
Would anyone care to share any further insight into what might be happening?
Car park charge increases are announced in a few weeks. Last year some increased 25% in places with no improvements and now-home-minister Priti Patel accused GA of holding drivers "hostage" because everyone has to drive to trains of course. What increase is coming this year?

Also, Automated Number Plate Readers were introduced last year so maybe there are disputes about to reach public court by now?
 

samuelmorris

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Car park charge increases are announced in a few weeks. Last year some increased 25% in places with no improvements and now-home-minister Priti Patel accused GA of holding drivers "hostage" because everyone has to drive to trains of course. What increase is coming this year?

Also, Automated Number Plate Readers were introduced last year so maybe there are disputes about to reach public court by now?
NCP also increased the price of my station car park by 25% but that isn't a GA station, so it's not explicitly a GA problem really, it's just another frustrating hit to commuters.
 

eastdyke

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An unsubstantiated tweet from someone (in reply to something from Richard Clinnick) made the following statement yesterday:
Problems after problems with #greateranglia another problem simmering in the background is the problems with #NCP and parking at its stations
Would anyone care to share any further insight into what might be happening?
Probably along the lines of the disproportionate costs of using Station Car parks compared to using those provided locally by other Authorities.
eg Bishops Stortford:
https://www.bishopsstortfordindepen...arking-for-commuters-at-town-station-9093427/
They include a proposal that measures should be taken to encourage rail commuters to use station car parks rather than the council's town centre spaces and that the operators should be urged to reduce their charges to "something closer to the prevailing all-day charge in our town centres".
Greater Anglia's facilities in the town are run by NCP. Currently, the maximum charge in the council's car parks is £4.40 a day, compared to £10 at the station, and two new multi-storey car parks are being constructed as part of the Goods Yard redevelopment..
 

Shunter_69

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Could even be the fact car park season ticket holders are getting fines through the post.
 

JW16

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Sorry if off topic - can re-post elsewhere if so. We are thinking about moving to Billericay. What’s the train service like into Liverpool St from there? Good odds of getting a seat in the morning peak?
 

samuelmorris

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Sorry if off topic - can re-post elsewhere if so. We are thinking about moving to Billericay. What’s the train service like into Liverpool St from there? Good odds of getting a seat in the morning peak?
I'm not too sure, I have used the service from Shenfield which is the next station down and certainly there aren't any seats to be had there, but there aren't many people standing when it arrives, so you might be alright. What's noteworthy is that when the delayed 720s finally arrive, the seating capacity will significantly increase on this route. I'd expect that after 720s are fully introduced, you should have good odds of getting a seat at Billericay but I wouldn't want to guarantee it.
 

trebor79

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An unsubstantiated tweet from someone (in reply to something from Richard Clinnick) made the following statement yesterday:

Problems after problems with #greateranglia another problem simmering in the background is the problems with #NCP and parking at its stations
Would anyone care to share any further insight into what might be happening?
Dunno but the parking is a weird set up. Run by NCP but if you want to pay online (say you've had to dash to get on the train) you end up not on NCPs site but some dreadful "system" branded as something I forget. It's horrendously difficult to use and very buggy. Last time I tried the location reference provided at the car park didn't work and it was only extreme perseverance that I found it through some obtuse route. Dreadfully set out 1990s style website.
There as some incident a few weeks ago where nobody was able to pay at either the machines or online or by phone. Suggestion from GA was you might get a fine so appeal it and all will be well. I can see that process annoying lots of people and falling over too...
 

samuelmorris

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Dunno but the parking is a weird set up. Run by NCP but if you want to pay online (say you've had to dash to get on the train) you end up not on NCPs site but some dreadful "system" branded as something I forget. It's horrendously difficult to use and very buggy. Last time I tried the location reference provided at the car park didn't work and it was only extreme perseverance that I found it through some obtuse route. Dreadfully set out 1990s style website.
There as some incident a few weeks ago where nobody was able to pay at either the machines or online or by phone. Suggestion from GA was you might get a fine so appeal it and all will be well. I can see that process annoying lots of people and falling over too...
I had that happen with TfL's NCP car park, the appeal was also refused, but I ended up paying £60 rather than taking court action as at the time I couldn't be bothered. Frustrating but almost every other car in the car park also had a sticker on it that day so I guess a lot of people also got hit by it...
 

ashkeba

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I had that happen with TfL's NCP car park, the appeal was also refused, but I ended up paying £60 rather than taking court action as at the time I couldn't be bothered. Frustrating but almost every other car in the car park also had a sticker on it that day so I guess a lot of people also got hit by it...
And at no point did anyone at NCP think from the high number of stickers there might be a problem - or more likely, they decided to try it at £60 each time! Is there no law for car parks like Penalty Fare stations where if there is no way to pay before boarding that you can pay after?
 

samuelmorris

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And at no point did anyone at NCP think from the high number of stickers there might be a problem - or more likely, they decided to try it at £60 each time! Is there no law for car parks like Penalty Fare stations where if there is no way to pay before boarding that you can pay after?
They absolutely would but went ahead with it anyway. I imagine the enforcement officer is commissioned, he's there every day without fail now so must earn a fair amount of fines. There will be laws about it, but only about appealing fines. Depends how far you want to take it.
 

306024

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Dunno but the parking is a weird set up. Run by NCP but if you want to pay online (say you've had to dash to get on the train) you end up not on NCPs site but some dreadful "system" branded as something I forget. It's horrendously difficult to use and very buggy. Last time I tried the location reference provided at the car park didn't work and it was only extreme perseverance that I found it through some obtuse route. Dreadfully set out 1990s style website.
There as some incident a few weeks ago where nobody was able to pay at either the machines or online or by phone. Suggestion from GA was you might get a fine so appeal it and all will be well. I can see that process annoying lots of people and falling over too...

You did remember sub-consciously, it is called Dash. I have the app on my phone for the odd times I use a GA car park. It seems to work OK for me but is a bit clunky.

I wonder how many get caught out by these new number plate recognition cameras too. If you drive to pick someone up, then find their train is late, the only way to avoid getting charged for outstaying your welcome is to drive out and then back in again nearer the time the train is due and hoping it isn't further delayed.

Given how long the queues can be to get out of some GA car parks, a split second misjudgement could be expensive.
 
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LAX54

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Why? That seems like a totally stupid thing to do to the best paying most loyal customers.

There was one at Colchester, he has paid £1800 up front for a premier space, he too has been 'ticketed' !
 
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