Greater Anglia "harmonisation" deal for drivers

[HH]

Because of the way in which its calculated on a pro rata basis. Some believe that it comes as a loss, some believe because its pro rata nothing is really lost and some do not see the gain in non worked days as a gain.

Possibly it's me being thick, but holidays are in numbers of days; there's 4 working days a week now and there'll be 4 working days a week after the change (unless I am mistaken); that means exactly the same number of weeks. Odd days may be harder to see, but if you occasionally have to book a Sunday as leave, there will be other weeks where you don't need to book a Friday (say); it evens out.

 

[HH]

I'd say let's do that - but at the same time pass on the costs of doing that onto the users, so higher fares for Sunday travel. People might not be so keen then!

Yes, let's get more people onto the roads...

 

[Panupreset]

Possibly it's me being thick, but holidays are in numbers of days; there's 4 working days a week now and there'll be 4 working days a week after the change (unless I am mistaken); that means exactly the same number of weeks. Odd days may be harder to see, but if you occasionally have to book a Sunday as leave, there will be other weeks where you don't need to book a Friday (say); it evens out.

You are indeed wrong. On the GE side the working week is 6 days a week, with one rest day (ie a 5, not 4 day week). All Sunday's are overtime, be they ones that are in the roster additionally to the working week, or ones worked on a volunteer basis. You cannot book AL on a Sunday. You can request your job be covered, but if it cannot be covered you are obliged to attend for duty.

 

[Economist]

It would be interesting to know what the proposed offer was, I'm not sure if it can be discussed on a public forum or not since it ultimately wasn't accepted.

From what I can see, GTR is basically now the benchmark for TOCs wanting drivers to give up Sundays, that's before any other loss of conditions. Now, I'm not exactly in favour of a general bonfire of T&Cs for cash but most TOCs are wanting comitted Sundays or Sundays inside, I don't see them giving up this aim, even if it costs them the earth.

Most London-based train drivers will be members of the sixty grand basic club by 2020.

 

[dk1]

if I was a TOC i would basically state working week entitlement as 1 guaranteed rest day,plus one "sabbath" rest day per week...that is nice and politically correct....meaning that you get friday off if you're muslim,saturday if you're jewish/adventist and sunday if you are catholic.

...that way weekend working of any sort is basically fully covered!

If you where a TOC with those conditions you would have no trains running at all

 

[Gooner18]

Ah, ok.

Tip - when you're in the grade, which you'll start in January, don't share the details of things like pay discussions on social media.

With that in mind, only a plonker will tell you on here. Best just to wait and see what happens.

Good luck in your new career.

Thank you , jusy need to chose which one lol. this post was not really intended to discuss just the money side , I was more interested what the whole harmonisation was about

Best wishes in your driving career pal. And don't get too frustrated with some of the rubbish posted about us on here. Only have to look at how many threads there are on this very forum about trying to become a driver, to know that there's a lot of envy.

Best wishes in your driving career pal. And don't get too frustrated with some of the rubbish posted about us on here. Only have to look at how many threads there are on this very forum about trying to become a driver, to know that there's a lot of envy.

Thank you mate , I have to say I am very excited but equally nervous lol

 

[Dave1987]

I think some of my driver friends are being disingenuous. The railways run every day of the week, so there is a direct comparison to supermarkets. Somebody has to drive the trains on a Sunday, so it's either other drivers or cancelled trains.

That it's not compulsory on a few TOCs is an aberration, one that is only possible due to the high rate of pay enjoyed by drivers, the ready availability of overtime and the strong bargaining position drivers hold with regard to Operators. It's not a sustainable position and my view is that we are not long away from this being recognised as a problem.

I’m not being disingenuous at all. A thread was started on a subject of which virtually everyone who has contributed to this thread has no clue about. One person mentions Sunday’s and suddenly it was all about Sunday’s and that no drivers want to work Sunday’s. This is complete and utter nonsense! My job entails working Sunday’s. I have worked and will continue to work Sunday’s and drive trains on Sunday’s.

 

[dk1]

I’m not being disingenuous at all. A thread was started on a subject of which virtually everyone who has contributed to this thread has no clue about. One person mentions Sunday’s and suddenly it was all about Sunday’s and that no drivers want to work Sunday’s. This is complete and utter nonsense! My job entails working Sunday’s. I have worked and will continue to work Sunday’s and drive trains on Sunday’s.

Hallelujah & well said mate

 

[Tractor2018]

Thank you , jusy need to chose which one lol. this post was not really intended to discuss just the money side , I was more interested what the whole harmonisation was about

Yeah. I've generalised, calling it pay discussions. Sorry, there's obviously much more to it. But any similar discussions - same advice.

Difficult situation you're in. Good luck.

 

[bramling]

I’m not being disingenuous at all. A thread was started on a subject of which virtually everyone who has contributed to this thread has no clue about. One person mentions Sunday’s and suddenly it was all about Sunday’s and that no drivers want to work Sunday’s. This is complete and utter nonsense! My job entails working Sunday’s. I have worked and will continue to work Sunday’s and drive trains on Sunday’s.

I don’t think anyone has said no driver wants to work Sundays. However it’s definitely the case that many drivers, just like many people in other grades and jobs, prefer to avoid working weekends. Many who have worked a crewing desk would no doubt say if I had a pound for every time someone has come up and asked for a rest day change substituting a weekend rest day for a weekday one!

However, if people have signed up for a specific number of Sundays, or whatever, and the employer wants to change that, then good luck to the staff in getting the most favourable deal possible. Perhaps the underlying issue is that there is now more demand for services on Sundays, requiring more staff, however with a grade where people stay out for unusually long times compared to other professions it’s never going to be easy to reconcile this.

Going back a decade or two, the ethos of running a Sunday service was to minimise the number of services run, but try to maximise the length to make up for it, so the overall capacity was maintained. There’s still plenty of short trains running about on Sundays.

 

[Gooner18]

Yeah. I've generalised, calling it pay discussions. Sorry, there's obviously much more to it. But any similar discussions - same advice.

Difficult situation you're in. Good luck.

Cheers fella

 

[HH]

You are indeed wrong. On the GE side the working week is 6 days a week, with one rest day (ie a 5, not 4 day week). All Sunday's are overtime, be they ones that are in the roster additionally to the working week, or ones worked on a volunteer basis. You cannot book AL on a Sunday. You can request your job be covered, but if it cannot be covered you are obliged to attend for duty.

Thanks. ASLEF says "Max 5 day wk. 4 day wk average. total 104 days pa" for former Great Eastern drivers. Is that wrong?

 

[387star]

It would be interesting to know what the proposed offer was, I'm not sure if it can be discussed on a public forum or not since it ultimately wasn't accepted.

From what I can see, GTR is basically now the benchmark for TOCs wanting drivers to give up Sundays, that's before any other loss of conditions. Now, I'm not exactly in favour of a general bonfire of T&Cs for cash but most TOCs are wanting comitted Sundays or Sundays inside, I don't see them giving up this aim, even if it costs them the earth.

Most London-based train drivers will be members of the sixty grand basic club by 2020.

Which isn't enough to live in London

 

[Meerkat]

You think everyone who lives in London earns £60k?

 

[Sebastian O]

Anyone care to share the actual terms of the deal (not that it’s going forward but still) rather than discuss religion?

And the comment about France being a secular society - clearly they’ve never visited the country.

 

[Starmill]

Yes, let's get more people onto the roads...

Sundays are already more expensive on some routes. ScotRail offer some cheaper tickets that are only valid on weekdays.

 

[HH]

Sundays are already more expensive on some routes. ScotRail offer some cheaper tickets that are only valid on weekdays.

That kind of makes my point - we're not doing enough to encourage train use at weekends; although I am surprised at ScotRail if this is the case - general policy is to encourage Sunday use. Do you have details?

 

[TheEdge]

Anyone care to share the actual terms of the deal (not that it’s going forward but still) rather than discuss religion?

No. There are at least three of us on this thread who have the nice glossy booklet with the full deal, I can bet my bottom dollar that none of us will be posting those on a public forum.

 

[Esker-pades]

That kind of makes my point - we're not doing enough to encourage train use at weekends; although I am surprised at ScotRail if this is the case - general policy is to encourage Sunday use. Do you have details?

It makes sense though. Some Saturday and Sunday services are much busier than the off-peak weekday equivalents.

 

[Tractor2018]

Anyone care to share the actual terms of the deal

Hahahahaha.

 

[dk1]

No. There are at least three of us on this thread who have the nice glossy booklet with the full deal, I can bet my bottom dollar that none of us will be posting those on a public forum.

And how impressive where those booklets? I've seen Cunard brochures that don't match up to the quality. Just a shame about the content.

 

[Economist]

Thought it would be confidential, most things of this nature tend to be though it will be interesting to see what is agreed if/when a deal is reached. I wouldn't be surprised if the recent Thameslink/Southern deals have given drivers something to aim for, especially with GN not too far away.

Regarding the £60k, the London weighting tends to be fairly small, best bet I reckon is to try and line up an internal transfer to a non-London depot, easier to do at some places compared to others of course.

 

[Sleepy]

Thought it would be confidential, most things of this nature tend to be though it will be interesting to see what is agreed if/when a deal is reached. I wouldn't be surprised if the recent Thameslink/Southern deals have given drivers something to aim for, especially with GN not too far away.
.

GA Cambridge depot has certainly seen a loss of drivers to GN recently.

 

[dk1]

GA Cambridge depot has certainly seen a loss of drivers to GN recently.

No surprise there & the haemorrhaging will continue for the foreseeable whilst the pay & conditions at the neighbouring depot are so different. GA top brass are fully aware & have been for many years.

 

[HH]

It makes sense though. Some Saturday and Sunday services are much busier than the off-peak weekday equivalents.

It makes absolute sense. So much so, that even some TOC bosses and DfT bigwigs understand it. There has been a steady, if inconstant, push towards more weekend services. Very like retail in that way, if far less publicised.

 

[Gooner18]

In general what I have heard about GA is they are a good company to work for , look after their employees etc

 

[driver_m]

In general what I have heard about GA is they are a good company to work for , look after their employees etc

You can hear that about any company to be honest. But use a healthy bit of cynicism with it. All depends on having well rounded management who have a mind of their own.

 

[TheManWho]

Hallelujah & well said mate

When I was rostered I didn't mind working weekends. Weekdays off are great- no queues in Tesco, no waiting to get the car serviced, no queues in Costa/Starbucks and I get to pick up the kids from school/take the kids to school. Not many people working full time and earning a fair few £££s get to do that

Whilst I'm now longer a rostered staff member where I work, I still have to work some weekends across the year and still look forward to a Wednesday or Thursday off.

 

[dk1]

When I was rostered I didn't mind working weekends. Weekdays off are great- no queues in Tesco, no waiting to get the car serviced, no queues in Costa/Starbucks and I get to pick up the kids from school/take the kids to school. Not many people working full time and earning a fair few £££s get to do that

Whilst I'm now longer a rostered staff member where I work, I still have to work some weekends across the year and still look forward to a Wednesday or Thursday off.

You & me both mate. I'm more than happy to work every Sunday I can with my record standing at eight on the trot. My most favourite day of the week is Monday anyway so always happy with that & Tuesday off but equally the Wednesday/Thursday as Free Days comes close. You can also get served easily in pubs & have an entire row or two to yourself at the cinema without other people (especially of the smaller variety) spoiling your day.

 

[driver_m]

You & me both mate. I'm more than happy to work every Sunday I can with my record standing at eight on the trot. My most favourite day of the week is Monday anyway so always happy with that & Tuesday off but equally the Wednesday/Thursday as Free Days comes close. You can also get served easily in pubs & have an entire row or two to yourself at the cinema without other people (especially of the smaller variety) spoiling your day.

And there is why the current system isn't broke. Someone will always have a favourite pattern or day off, and there's usually always someone to swap. We have people who love nights, (the weirdos!), Early lovers, (I like my afternoon turns) , Sunday grabbers, Sunday avoiders .

There's a simple answer to harmonisation. Take the right number of people on, and give everyone the same T&C's. Take it off the private companies and call it BR.