Greater Anglia - Overground takeover

[telstarbox]

Not sure if this is 'news' but tonight's Evening Standard says London Overground will take over the Greater Anglia lines to Cheshunt, Enfield Town and Chingford in 2015 (and they will be added to the Tube map).

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...verground-to-get-25-new-stations-9044059.html

Branching out: London overground to get 25 new stations

Twenty-five stations will be added to the Overground when two east London suburban rail services are incorporated into the Transport for London network.

The services, which run through Bethnal Green and Hackney, link Enfield Town, Cheshunt and Chingford to Liverpool Street station. They will appear on the Tube map as part of the Overground from next year.

The latest extension will include stations for White Hart Lane, Stoke Newington, Stamford Hill and London Fields, all of which will link to Liverpool Street via Hackney Downs.

The takeover of the suburban West Anglia main line is part of TfL’s wider adoption of National Rail lines serving London, revealed in its latest business plan.

Mike Stubbs, TfL’s Director of London Overground, said: “In July 2013 the Secretary of State agreed to devolve some West Anglia main line services to the Mayor and we are working with the Department for Transport and Abellio Greater Anglia to deliver a full transfer in 2015.”

 

[swt_passenger]

It's taken about 6 months for the Standard to realise? Pretty typical then.

Here's TfL's announcement at the time, i.e. July 13:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/28301.aspx

We must have had a thread about it back then...

 

[dk1]

It's taken about 6 months for the Standard to realise? Pretty typical then.

 

[CockneySparrow]

Not sure if this is 'news' but tonight's Evening Standard says London Overground will take over the Greater Anglia lines to Cheshunt, Enfield Town and Chingford in 2015 (and they will be added to the Tube map).

That's bad news really bad news for passengers on the rural lines as fares will increase

 

[317666]

That's bad news really bad news for passengers on the rural lines as fares will increase

Plus, if the new stock LO orders is anything like 378s then people from stations such as Southbury or Chingford can enjoy standing for half an hour, or staring at the person sitting opposite them rather than being able to look out of the window.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Plus, if the new stock LO orders is anything like 378s then people from stations such as Southbury or Chingford can enjoy standing for half an hour, or staring at the person sitting opposite them rather than being able to look out of the window.

Which is why it's good that First didn't win the WCML! Just imagine Glasgow to London on a 143!

 

[swt_passenger]

Plus, if the new stock LO orders is anything like 378s then people from stations such as Southbury or Chingford can enjoy standing for half an hour, or staring at the person sitting opposite them rather than being able to look out of the window.

The Anglia RUS had recommended '378 style' stock for the routes anyway when replacement was needed. It doesn't matter whether a route is operated by LO or whoever, open gangways and longitudinal seating could appear anywhere, if that's what is ordered.

 

[NLC1072]

So basically they decided that the Greater Anglia franchise amalgamation hasn't worked with their one operator per London terminal policy? They could of brought WAGN in to a TFL consecsion way back when it was to become NX/ONE.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think you are using a large amount of hindsight there. When WAGN was split with part into FCC and the rest into [Greater] Anglia I doubt anyone had much certainty how LO would turn out.

 

[tjlrailblue]

I think they will get 378 type EMUs but with more comfortable seats that are transverse

 

[VauxhallandI]

What worried me was they talked of 30 four car sets, that's not enough is it?

 

[dk1]

It will all work out in the end. So 'One' wasn't a huge success but that was 10yrs ago now. Things evolve all the time. Not as if there has been any harmonisation on the Staff front. Still 3 companies really.

 

[306024]

So basically they decided that the Greater Anglia franchise amalgamation hasn't worked with their one operator per London terminal policy? They could of brought WAGN in to a TFL consecsion way back when it was to become NX/ONE.

It isn't that it doesn't work, in fact operationally Liverpool St platform working is far easier to plan with just one operator (apart from the odd c2c train). It is just that the political wind is now blowing towards TfL having more responsibility for London suburban services. TfL will have more money to throw at this than the DfT would allow Greater Anglia to spend, so it will be interesting to see if they can replicate the success of London Overground.

30 x 4 car units is sufficient for running the Enfield, Cheshunt and Chingford service.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's bad news really bad news for passengers on the rural lines as fares will increase

How so?
The GA franchise will be rebid without the LO bit at the time of the split, and the finances will be reset on that basis.
We haven't seen the new (GA-LO) franchise spec yet.
And most fares are regulated anyway.

 

[bicbasher]

It's a non-news story as the decision on which concessionaire will operate the West Anglia lines under the London Overground brand on behalf of TfL still hasn't been made.

It's likely to be the Crossrail operator which still hasn't been decided or LOROL who operate the former Silverlink Metro and the East London/South London lines.

 

[Max]

If it includes a similar provision for investment in stations to the North London Line it can only be a good thing, as a frequent user of the Chingford line some of them are in dire need of refurbishment, having evidently seen little/no positive chance since WAGN days!

 

[Clip]

If it includes a similar provision for investment in stations to the North London Line it can only be a good thing, as a frequent user of the Chingford line some of them are in dire need of refurbishment, having evidently seen little/no positive chance since WAGN days!

Lets be fair now - some of them have had a lick of paint, it may have been the paint from a scorotes paint can but at least it was paint

 

[bicbasher]

If it includes a similar provision for investment in stations to the North London Line it can only be a good thing, as a frequent user of the Chingford line some of them are in dire need of refurbishment, having evidently seen little/no positive chance since WAGN days!

Not to mention staffing at each station until the final service.

When I look at my LO managed station, despite it's many faults with NR ticketing issues, the actual station itself is a massive improvement on what it was under Southern.

 

[Carlisle]

Which is why it's good that First didn't win the WCML! Just imagine Glasgow to London on a 143!

WRONG They were planning 153s on longer inter city routes

 

[Clip]

Will be interesting to see how quickly they will gate Bethnal Green/Cambridge heath/London fields stations.

 

[Wolfie]

Will be interesting to see how quickly they will gate Bethnal Green/Cambridge heath/London fields stations.

Based on what they did elsewhere, I would guess within a month!

 

[SF-02]

I can see 378 stock with the interior of 376.

Gating will be done sharpish.

 

[Wolfie]

I can see 378 stock with the interior of 376.

Gating will be done sharpish.

A discussion which has been had before. I believe the conclusion then was the stock was lijkely to be either 378s (if they are good enough for Watford to Euston etc etc) or new stock for both Watford to Euston (which apparently can only be 4 car) and the lines coming from GM with the extant 378s thus displaced being used on Gospel Oak-Barking and to augment the other LO lines.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't get this Watford - Euston '4 car only' stuff, despite it being mentioned only recently in this month's Modern Railways.

TfL's announcement back in May said that they had ordered enough 'fifth cars' for their entire 57 unit fleet of 378s, with options for some extra complete units to be decided, as part of the current lengthening programme:

Transport for London (TfL) has today placed an order for 57 new rail carriages to increase the passenger capacity on the London Overground railway by 25 per cent.
[...]
The £88m order placed with Bombardier Trains in Derby will enable existing Class 378 electric trains to be increased from four to five carriages on all of the network's increasingly popular lines except the Gospel Oak to Barking route where trains remain diesel powered.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/27861.aspx

If you go back earlier, they didn't mention the DC lines as a HLOS capacity proposal - where the 5 car was first mapped out, but I'd suggest they've moved on from that. There's no way they would buy 57 cars for 57 units otherwise..

 

[315804]

I can see 378 stock with the interior of 376.

Gating will be done sharpish.

All the current Tribute ticketing will be gone, I assume it will be mainly Oyster like the Overground is, and self-service machines.

Crossrail will swallow up the Shenfield Metro section, so I assume there won't be much of the franchise left...

I don't know where my namesake 315804 will head to once deposed by the new 378's unless they have a serious overhaul

GA are re-branding (new logo can be seen on their New Fares for 2014 posters), one of the Class 90's has been done, and there will be a slow roll-out to stations and rolling stock... I found out at Colchester the other day. New uniforms will be issued with the new logo.

website still has the old logo at the moment...

 

[Aictos]

Which is why it's good that First didn't win the WCML! Just imagine Glasgow to London on a 143!

:roll::roll::roll:

What rubbish! How about Virgin running 4 car Voyagers on their Cross Country routes replacing 8 and 9 carriage loco hauled?

WRONG They were planning 153s on longer inter city routes

Again, what rubbish - IF First had come in they're not going to suddenly decide to cascade the 390s/221s away and instead have 2 or 3 carriage trains running London to Scotland, despite what the Virgin fanboys believe all that would happen is a change of livery that's it!!!

 

[NotATrainspott]

:roll::roll::roll:

What rubbish! How about Virgin running 4 car Voyagers on their Cross Country routes replacing 8 and 9 carriage loco hauled?



Again, what rubbish - IF First had come in they're not going to suddenly decide to cascade the 390s/221s away and instead have 2 or 3 carriage trains running London to Scotland, despite what the Virgin fanboys believe all that would happen is a change of livery that's it!!!

I think we need to start using "/s" on the forum more so that people can tell when things are sarcasm.

 

[monty9120]

so greater anglia want new stock. lo take over and renew everything . fair much

 

[southern442]

Plus, if the new stock LO orders is anything like 378s then people from stations such as Southbury or Chingford can enjoy standing for half an hour, or staring at the person sitting opposite them rather than being able to look out of the window.

For anyone who was wondering, the class 315 has 318 seats, the 378 only 146, this equates to roughly a 55% seating loss if the 378's were used. Also, on the metropolitan line, the A stock had 464 seats and the S stock has 308, this is also a 40-45 % loss in seating (these are rough calculations so correct me if I'm wrong).

And for those virgin fanatics, there are 597 seats in a 11 car pendolino, and there are 106 in a 142 pacer, meaning that if first won the franchise, there would be (roughly) an 85% seating loss

 

[class303]

Lets be fair now - some of them have had a lick of paint, it may have been the paint from a scorotes paint can but at least it was paint

315s are awful, but the refurbished 317s are very nice inside. I use the chingford line regularly & think it'll be a disaster if LO take over if we see the same branding and staff we see elsewhere on the LO network.

sorry i see you were talking about stations and not stock.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Will be interesting to see how quickly they will gate Bethnal Green/Cambridge heath/London fields stations.

Bethnal Green should be gated, as should Walthamstow central (if not too difficult). Do London fields and Cambridge heath really warrant gating?