Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[dk1]

Yes, we’ve asked Bombardier to build it....

Don’t put the delivery date in your diary.

Haha love it. My ASLEF diary is as always very very fluid indeed

 

[jayah]

On the "years of neglect" issue, how are you quantifying "neglect"? Are you suggesting the good people at Crown Point have not maintained the trains well or that GA have done nothing to the Mk 3s during the somewhat nebulous time frame you mention?

I suspect Chiltern would prefer to have new coaching stock. The Mk3 coaches were designed 45 years ago, they can't and won't go on forever. The older carriages and rolling stock become the less cost-effective they are, even if they can be kept in top condition, parts will become more expensive to replace, structural work will be needed to prolong the assets' lives, old stock are usually less energy-efficient and modifications for disability and Health & Safety laws all add up to the cost of running stock beyond its intended life-span.

It's not about giving people a choice, the rail operator has bid on the basis of complete fleet renewal, the franchise bid is costed on that basis and GA felt it was achievable. Regulated fares will not be increased to pay for these new trains, they're leased and in all probability cost less over the course of the franchise than keeping the old stock running. Now, we all know that GA have run into problems but the long term outcome will be a more efficient, reliable, safer, inclusive, faster service. I think the people of Britain deserve that, not just East Anglians.

The Anglia Mark 3s have scarcely changed since Virgin Trains days on the West Coast in stark contrast to other fleets that have been extensively updated and improved.

Regulated fares won't be increased - that is the point. Brand new fleets are far more expensive, but it isn't a choice if you aren't made to weigh up whether it is worth the cost or not.

 

[dk1]

The Anglia Mark 3s have scarcely changed since Virgin Trains days on the West Coast in stark contrast to other fleets that have been extensively updated and improved.

What on earth are you banging on about? The GA fleet of MK3s have disabled toilets, CET toilets, WiFi, plug sockets & have been fully refurbed inside. Only lacking thing is auto-exterior doors. No reason in doing that with full fleet replacement on the way.

 

[F Great Eastern]

What on earth are you banging on about? The GA fleet of MK3s have disabled toilets, CET toilets, WiFi, plug sockets & have been fully refurbed inside. Only lacking thing is auto-exterior doors. No reason in doing that with full fleet replacement on the way.

Indeed, the Greater Anglia refurbishment was a good refurbishment, the National Express refurb of them previously which the poster may be refering to however was awful and barely touched.

 

[RailWonderer]

GA have done a good job with the refurb, the MK3s are just dirty as heck because the Stadlers are occupying space near the washers I think.
As for level crossings, if you look up how many types of crossings exist in the UK it will surprise you, you can see why the associated cost isn't worth it for 1tph to Peterborough. I found this out when I was building a train set how many types of level crossing Hornby offered

 

[grumpyoldman01]

Thats exactly what I meant by "back in the BR days" when everything was a Mk1 or a Mk2 and fitted everywhere. I remember DMU's running in place of EMU's when the overhead power went off, now its a bus. If there were some diesel locos knocking about they'd go off and find some rolling stock to make up trains and get put into service. I suppose its all health and safety, legislation and complications these days combined with trains built for only one line, so as a "for instance" the HSTs at Ely couldn't be hauled in last minute to cover the failing class 90 diagrams as 365s can't do it. Oh, that will be to do with leasing, another worry we didn't have with BR. Utter nonsense.

BR's pre-sector organization enabled it to respond quickly to even very major incidents.

As an example, there were major transformer failures with the Glasgow 'Blue Trains' (303s) shortly after introduction, and all were taken out of service at short notice; over a week-end (if I remember correctly), a replacement timetable was formulated, steam locos/hauled coaches were "rescued" from scrap lines and returned to use on north Clydeside, staff rosters were produced, and a reduced steam-hauled suburban service ran on the Monday morning.

Of course, in those days mobiles didn't exist - and very few people had land-lines in their houses - so contact had to be achieved by telegrams, staff on bikes, people using public transport (no doubt including trams), and walking round to hand-deliver information; the convenience of e-mails and text messages just weren't an option nearly 60 years ago.

Something like this wouldn't be possible with today's fragmented railway.

 

[dk1]

GA have done a good job with the refurb, the MK3s are just dirty as heck because the Stadlers are occupying space near the washers I think

They are back on top of the exterior cleanliness issues. All sets & locos have been hand bashed.

 

[jayah]

What on earth are you banging on about? The GA fleet of MK3s have disabled toilets, CET toilets, WiFi, plug sockets & have been fully refurbed inside. Only lacking thing is auto-exterior doors. No reason in doing that with full fleet replacement on the way.

Anglia Mk3s still have the original low back 1980s seating, the same immovable armrests, the same seat back tables and the same rotating disc latches for them that date back to Intercity in the 1990s.

CET toilets are welcome, disabled toilets - the other fleets had them 20 years ago. Refurbish is pushing the envelope cosmetically inside they look like a spruced up London - Manchester service from about 1995.

 

[43096]

Anglia Mk3s still have the original low back 1980s seating, the same immovable armrests, the same seat back tables and the same rotating disc latches for them that date back to Intercity in the 1990s.

You make that sound like a bad thing?

Plenty of us prefer those seats to the dross that has been foisted on us in the name of progress ever since.

 

[chubs]

It is a bad thing.

Plenty of us want and deserve better than that.

That's why we are getting better, modern, fit for purpose trains and the old ones are off to the razor blade factory.

 

[Dave1987]

It is a bad thing.

Plenty of us want and deserve better than that.

That's why we are getting better, modern, fit for purpose trains and the old ones are off to the razor blade factory.

Can I ask how long you believe it should be until this fleet is sent for razor blades? 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

With your mindset I cannot believe any new fleet would be allowed to last more than 5 years in service before it become "outdated rubbish".

Or is it that you deserve the most modern stock and everyone else can have the outdated rubbish?

 

[Owen]

Will there be any disruption next monday from London to Norwich? Class 90?

 

[Scottychoo]

Hold on whilst I get my crystal ball out.

 

[chubs]

Can I ask how long you believe it should be until this fleet is sent for razor blades? 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?

Or is it that you deserve the most modern stock and everyone else can have the outdated rubbish?

Hard to say, depends on the stock itself but for any stock once you hit 30 years you're pushing it and 40 years is well past it's time. You know full well 5 to 10 years is ridiculous. The mk3's are relics to a long gone era.

I don't think anyone deserves outdated rubbish, and am in disbelief at the TOC's keeping on mk3's and HST's. Luckily lots of TOC's are investing in long overdue modern rolling stock. Anglia has long survived on cast off's, especially the Intercity route so it's great it finally gets some love.

 

[Dave1987]

Hard to say, depends on the stock itself but for any stock once you hit 30 years you're pushing it and 40 years is well past it's time. You know full well 5 to 10 years is ridiculous. The mk3's are relics to a long gone era.

I don't think anyone deserves outdated rubbish, and am in disbelief at the TOC's keeping on mk3's and HST's. Luckily lots of TOC's are investing in long overdue modern rolling stock. Anglia has long survived on cast off's, especially the Intercity route so it's great it finally gets some love.

Interesting! You are aware that some of the brand new stock for other TOCs has been financed on a *minimum* service life of 27 years? So if you don’t push it to 30 years or more then you make it uneconomical for new trains to be bought unless the leasing costs go up. Yes it’s great that the PITA hauled sets are going. And new trains are on the horizon. But don’t be under any illusions that the new trains bonanza that is currently happening is sustainable long term.

 

[superjohn]

I noted two 8 car class 317 sets out on GE Braintree workings this afternoon (12/5/19). One was on the 1200 from Braintree and the other on the 1248 from Liverpool Street.

I’m aware of the weekday diagram but are 317’s common on weekend workings usually?

 

[700007]

I noted two 8 car class 317 sets out on GE Braintree workings this afternoon (12/5/19). One was on the 1200 from Braintree and the other on the 1248 from Liverpool Street.

I’m aware of the weekday diagram but are 317’s common on weekend workings usually?

Apparently so from what I was told a few weeks earlier on here. It's very normal to have Braintrees covered by 317s apparently on a Saturday as all of the drivers and trains are rostered to come from Ilford Depot. As they have traction and route knowledge, they like to take some out for a spin every week.

 

[306024]

Under the normal timetable the Braintree services are 321s interworked with the Southend service. But with the Southend line blocked today (and most weekends for overhead line work) and most 321s marooned the wrong side of the block 317s are used as there are relatively few spare 321s at Ilford on a Saturday.

 

[Owen]

Awful experience today on Norwich to Cambridge and back. Horrendous 2 car class 156 with fumes coming through on the way back. Got GN from ELY on the way but no such luck on the way back.

Unfortunately I wasn’t able to make a connection on to the East Midlands trains service.

Can’t wait to these new trains are in service.

 

[Wivenswold]

Brand new fleets are far more expensive, but it isn't a choice if you aren't made to weigh up whether it is worth the cost or not.

Erm, no. The whole point of fleet renewal is that GA will save money on maintenance and leasing costs. See SWR and their Class 707s for another example.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I have not traveled recently in East Anglia, but I was on a railtour yesterday to Norwich & Lowestoft and saw some really odd looking trains just outside Norwich, very European looking, 4 carriages which seemed shorter than usual with only one set of doors, then in the centre was what I assume is the power unit. What routes are those going to be used on? can you walk through the power unit car from the rear 2 carriages to the front coaches?

 

[trebor79]

@STEVIEBOY1 https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/abellio-greater-anglia-new-stadler-flirt-trains.148431/

 

[Owen]

I have not traveled recently in East Anglia, but I was on a railtour yesterday to Norwich & Lowestoft and saw some really odd looking trains just outside Norwich, very European looking, 4 carriages which seemed shorter than usual with only one set of doors, then in the centre was what I assume is the power unit. What routes are those going to be used on? can you walk through the power unit car from the rear 2 carriages to the front coaches?

4 cars is long for Norwich and is usually the standard for an EMU rather than a DMU. So one could say the EA people now have a superior product over other regions.

 

[route:oxford]

BR's pre-sector organization enabled it to respond quickly to even very major incidents.

As an example, there were major transformer failures with the Glasgow 'Blue Trains' (303s) shortly after introduction, and all were taken out of service at short notice; over a week-end (if I remember correctly), a replacement timetable was formulated, steam locos/hauled coaches were "rescued" from scrap lines and returned to use on north Clydeside, staff rosters were produced, and a reduced steam-hauled suburban service ran on the Monday morning.

Of course, in those days mobiles didn't exist - and very few people had land-lines in their houses - so contact had to be achieved by telegrams, staff on bikes, people using public transport (no doubt including trams), and walking round to hand-deliver information; the convenience of e-mails and text messages just weren't an option nearly 60 years ago.

Something like this wouldn't be possible with today's fragmented railway.

It wouldn't matter what kind of message delivery service was available if it weren't for the fact that they had barely serviceable kit in the sidings awaiting scrapping.

Scotrail did exactly the same in the early 1990s with the emergency withdrawl of 158s, running 156s like the clappers above their official speed limit and pressing knackered heritage units that were waiting to be scrapped into service overnight.

Scotrail even did it last year and into this year with heritage class 365s and slam-door HSTs

 

[dk1]

4 cars is long for Norwich and is usually the standard for an EMU rather than a DMU. So one could say the EA people now have a superior product over other regions.

14 of the 38 755s will be 3-car units.

 

[317666]

Awful experience today on Norwich to Cambridge and back. Horrendous 2 car class 156 with fumes coming through on the way back. Got GN from ELY on the way but no such luck on the way back.

Interesting, one of the East Suffolk 170 diagrams was covered by a 156 yesterday, as was the Cambridge - Harwich boat train in the evening. Personally though I'd take a 156 over a 170 any day!

 

[Owen]

Interesting, one of the East Suffolk 170 diagrams was covered by a 156 yesterday, as was the Cambridge - Harwich boat train in the evening. Personally though I'd take a 156 over a 170 any day!

Wonder where the 170’s went then? I see the line is closed today, aswell. So not sure what has been going on.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Wonder where the 170’s went then? I see the line is closed today, aswell. So not sure what has been going on.

Probably a shortage of them available, the GA DMU fleet doesn't have a lot of slack in it at all.

 

[86246]

Probably a shortage of them available, the GA DMU fleet doesn't have a lot of slack in it at all.

According to journey check on Friday morning two 156s were running between Ipswich and Cambridge plus another two between Norwich and Cambridge. In the afternoon the Felixstowe branch was replaced by a bus as the 153 was used for a couple of Peterborough trips. Unless they were used on other diagrams there were a few 170s missing.

 

[Owen]

Well I will be taking East Midlands trains tomorrow. Not going through that again.