Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[Owen]

Wasn't too many on my GN train from Ely on Saturday.

 

[eastdyke]

Pax are perhaps finding that the convenience of 4 unevenly spaced trains per hour is more important than price.
The GA only Ely-Cambridge off-peak day return is £2.35 v £4.70.

 

[dk1]

Wasn't too many on my GN train from Ely on Saturday.

Saturday's you can't really go by. Weekdays they can be very popular indeed but don't always feel it as 8-cars. Remember these are the prelude to half hourly Kings Lynn services that will be projected forwards once the North Junction is upgraded.

 

[Kite159]

Trouble with that is it would make the GN sit a pointless amount of time at Cambridge even if platform space there where available, ruin the almost even interval half hourly fast Kings Cross departures & to be fair off peak is not the time that causes anywhere near the overcrowding from Ely. Most Norwich Cambridge 'up' services pick up no more than 30 punters at Ely during the day.

Don't the GN services already sit for a long time at Cambridge (I seem to recall it gets overtaken at Cambridge by the XC Stansted service)

 

[dk1]

Don't the GN services already sit for a long time at Cambridge (I seem to recall it gets overtaken at Cambridge by the XC Stansted service)

Yes they do so no further time needed. A lot going on around that time but the Stansted is a handy one to get off the xx57 EMs from Norwich allowing a cross platform at Cambridge for a lovely Kings Cross connection.

 

[chubs]

Yes they do so no further time needed. A lot going on around that time but the Stansted is a handy one to get off the xx57 EMs from Norwich allowing a cross platform at Cambridge for a lovely Kings Cross connection.

If there's engineering work on the GEML are you still allowed to go Norwich - Cambridge - Kings X ?

Not had to do it in ages but it was always a better option than the slow Cambridge to Liverpool St stopper.

 

[dk1]

If there's engineering work on the GEML are you still allowed to go Norwich - Cambridge - Kings X ?

Not had to do it in ages but it was always a better option than the slow Cambridge to Liverpool St stopper.

I think only if passengers have open tickets. The cheap advance are Liverpool St only. I'm always happy to buy a priv if not using a box for a longer journey as find the WA route tedious.

 

[Owen]

Is the Norwich to Cambridge services being run by a class 156 or 170 today? Just need to plan what operator I will be using.

 

[Wivenswold]

Is the Norwich to Cambridge services being run by a class 156 or 170 today? Just need to plan what operator I will be using.

Regarding your earlier posting about the relative sizes of Cambridge and Norwich. Does it occur to you that there is little value in comparing cities on size alone? Cambridge has a significantly larger temporary population due to the colleges and universities, it has a greater draw for visitors from across the world and the shear number of events in Cambridge adds further footfall. Cambridge is also a commuter town, thanks in part to the historically good rail service but also in relation to other nearby satellite towns.

Norwich does have commuters and that number will increase but it also has a much older population and is mostly a market town for surrounding villages and is certainly not a worldwide attraction. There's only one university in Norwich and it's a fairly self-contained one on the other side of town. That said, I prefer to visit Norwich because it is so sleepy.

Each town and city is unique in its transportation requirements. Not everything can be solved with league tables and statistics.

 

[eastdyke]

Regarding your earlier posting about the relative sizes of Cambridge and Norwich. Does it occur to you that there is little value in comparing cities on size alone? Cambridge has a significantly larger temporary population due to the colleges and universities, it has a greater draw for visitors from across the world and the shear number of events in Cambridge adds further footfall. Cambridge is also a commuter town, thanks in part to the historically good rail service but also in relation to other nearby satellite towns.

Norwich does have commuters and that number will increase but it also has a much older population and is mostly a market town for surrounding villages and is certainly not a worldwide attraction. There's only one university in Norwich and it's a fairly self-contained one on the other side of town. That said, I prefer to visit Norwich because it is so sleepy.

Each town and city is unique in its transportation requirements. Not everything can be solved with league tables and statistics.

[Pedant on] Both Norwich and Cambridge are Cities. In the case of Norwich some 800 years (+-) the earlier to gain that status.[pedant off]
Norwich has 2 Cathedrals, and 2 Universities (not 1) and a very fine Norman Castle. I believe Cambridge has little more than a mound of dirt for their 'Castle'.
Norwich has large numbers of tourists from within the UK, as opposed to overseas, many of whom are able to use their car
Central Cambridge is so small that you probably bump into most of them (the tourists) during a visit

Part of the attraction of living and working in Norwich always used to be that there were no decent roads and therefore fewer visitors than might otherwise have been the case.

 

[ashkeba]

At least East Anglia was never blessed with Pacers.

It was, or at least halves of them, on rubber tyres, with bus cabs on the front - I'm still not sure which were worse.

Don't the GN services already sit for a long time at Cambridge (I seem to recall it gets overtaken at Cambridge by the XC Stansted service)

Yes they do so no further time needed.

Do many sit for a long time? I've noticed weekday 1T09 sits for 10minutes about 0730 but most weekday 1T headcodes are 5-6 mins, which seems the usual Electrostar coupling/uncoupling, although that's longer than the 4 minutes I think the Networker Expresses used to have. The weekend timetable is currently littered with 20 minute stops, though.

The XC Stansted uses the GA line south of Cambridge, so it may pass the GN there, but overtake seems a bit inaccurate.

 

[dk1]

It was, or at least halves of them, on rubber tyres, with bus cabs on the front - I'm still not sure which were worse.



Do many sit for a long time? I've noticed weekday 1T09 sits for 10minutes about 0730 but most weekday 1T headcodes are 5-6 mins, which seems the usual Electrostar coupling/uncoupling, although that's longer than the 4 minutes I think the Networker Expresses used to have. The weekend timetable is currently littered with 20 minute stops, though.

The XC Stansted uses the GA line south of Cambridge, so it may pass the GN there, but overtake seems a bit inaccurate.

Normally one runs into 7 & the other 8 at Cambridge. The regulating happens there.

 

[delticdave]

[Pedant on] Both Norwich and Cambridge are Cities. In the case of Norwich some 800 years (+-) the earlier to gain that status.[pedant off]
Norwich has 2 Cathedrals, and 2 Universities (not 1) and a very fine Norman Castle. I believe Cambridge has little more than a mound of dirt for their 'Castle'.
Norwich has large numbers of tourists from within the UK, as opposed to overseas, many of whom are able to use their car
Central Cambridge is so small that you probably bump into most of them (the tourists) during a visit

Part of the attraction of living and working in Norwich always used to be that there were no decent roads and therefore fewer visitors than might otherwise have been the case.

The lack of decent roads in / around Norwich is a PITA for me. I've family living there & visiting them takes far too long in a car,
but even longer by train + bus. (I'd need to backtrack into London, change terminals, catch an express (!) train.
That's at least 2 bus rides, 2 trains + the Underground.)

If the A140 was a decent 60 / 70 mph road & the Norwich ring-road wasn't a collection of inner-suburban signposts, travelling from darkest Essex to Norfolk wouldn't be so unappealing...........

 

[Railperf]

How are preparations for Norwich in 90 gearing up? Have they managed to marshall together a loco and rake of coaches for it yet?

 

[dk1]

How are preparations for Norwich in 90 gearing up? Have they managed to marshall together a loco and rake of coaches for it yet?

No need. Will just be any IC set with 321s assigned on a daily basis to the usual diagram operated by Liv.St crews.

 

[Railperf]

No need. Will just be any IC set with 321s assigned on a daily basis to the usual diagram operated by Liv.St crews.

So no shortened formation then? A full 9 coach plus DVT?

 

[nesw]

The first day of Norwich in 90 will probably see a clean cleaned set and reliable loco as all eyes will be on the first departure. I understand that various invited guests will join the train at Norwich after a presentation. Jonathan Denby is busy organising this ‘important day.’

 

[Owen]

The lack of decent roads in / around Norwich is a PITA for me. I've family living there & visiting them takes far too long in a car,
but even longer by train + bus. (I'd need to backtrack into London, change terminals, catch an express (!) train.
That's at least 2 bus rides, 2 trains + the Underground.)

If the A140 was a decent 60 / 70 mph road & the Norwich ring-road wasn't a collection of inner-suburban signposts, travelling from darkest Essex to Norfolk wouldn't be so unappealing...........

Really? You can get to a lot of parts of Essex from Norwich in under 90 minutes.

It’s only about 55 minutes to Colchester.

 

[LAX54]

So no shortened formation then? A full 9 coach plus DVT?

1P46 1700 Ex Liverpool Street tonight : Lon - Ips 53 mins

 

[F Great Eastern]

There was at least one loco set being subbed by 321s earlier and a cancellation as well.

 

[delticdave]

Really? You can get to a lot of parts of Essex from Norwich in under 90 minutes.

It’s only about 55 minutes to Colchester.

By train then yes, if driving then no. If I'm are keeping to the speed limits, for us it's an hour to get down the A140 to the A14.
The door to door drive is much quicker than using public transport, the dog-leg through London is a big timewaster.

 

[LAX54]

Really? You can get to a lot of parts of Essex from Norwich in under 90 minutes.

It’s only about 55 minutes to Colchester.

Norwich to Colchester (A140) 1 hour 20min (keeping to limits ) 1hr 30 min to Clacton and 1 hr 35 to Harwich, but try that between 0600 and 0900 and 1500 and 1900 then a different story !

 

[Owen]

Well I have routinely done Norwich to Audley End in under 90 minutes.

I don’t think the time of day matters, as trains are constant speed!

 

[klewer]

Well I have routinely done Norwich to Audley End in under 90 minutes.

I don’t think the time of day matters, as trains are constant speed!

The time of day really does matter - in the peaks you will see many more services crammed on to the mainline, and stopping patterns will vary in order to meet passenger demand from smaller stations that don't warrant a frequent service off peak.

This change in stopping patterns doesn't only affect a particular service but will also affect following services. More importantly, this will impact the "constant speed" you refer to

 

[dk1]

So no shortened formation then? A full 9 coach plus DVT?

Once the launch hype dies down, yes. It's just not feasible to have a dedicated set.

 

[Wivenswold]

[Pedant on] Both Norwich and Cambridge are Cities. In the case of Norwich some 800 years (+-) the earlier to gain that status.[pedant off]
Norwich has 2 Cathedrals, and 2 Universities (not 1) and a very fine Norman Castle. I believe Cambridge has little more than a mound of dirt for their 'Castle'.
Norwich has large numbers of tourists from within the UK, as opposed to overseas, many of whom are able to use their car
Central Cambridge is so small that you probably bump into most of them (the tourists) during a visit

Part of the attraction of living and working in Norwich always used to be that there were no decent roads and therefore fewer visitors than might otherwise have been the case.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten the old poly. 31 in Cambridge. But seriously, in the 15 years or so I've had of meeting clients from all around the world, Cambridge seems to be the only other place in the UK that visitors bother with. As charming as Norwich is, and I have family and friends there, not once has anyone said they're visiting the Norfolk capital while in the UK.

 

[ge-gn]

Ah yes, I'd forgotten the old poly. 31 in Cambridge. But seriously, in the 15 years or so I've had of meeting clients from all around the world, Cambridge seems to be the only other place in the UK that visitors bother with. As charming as Norwich is, and I have family and friends there, not once has anyone said they're visiting the Norfolk capital while in the UK.

I think maybe that the second University being referred to is the Norwich University of the Arts which has expanded greatly in the last 10 years or so rather than City College.

While I will agree that Cambridge, along with Edinburgh and London, and maybe Canterbury are often the only places in the UK foreign tourists have heard of, I think those who are adventurous enough to extricate themselves from their tour buses are beginning to discover the charms of a Norwich. At the moment the Norfolk and Norwich festival is taking place, and a stroll around the city will uncover a great many international tourists visiting. The tourist industry in Norwich is growing as it continues to sell itself as a cultural, as well as historical destination.

Anyway, way off topic...

 

[bspahh]

I think maybe that the second University being referred to is the Norwich University of the Arts which has expanded greatly in the last 10 years or so rather than City College.

While I will agree that Cambridge, along with Edinburgh and London, and maybe Canterbury are often the only places in the UK foreign tourists have heard of, I think those who are adventurous enough to extricate themselves from their tour buses are beginning to discover the charms of a Norwich. At the moment the Norfolk and Norwich festival is taking place, and a stroll around the city will uncover a great many international tourists visiting. The tourist industry in Norwich is growing as it continues to sell itself as a cultural, as well as historical destination.

Anyway, way off topic...

Its the Wales of the East

 

[delticdave]

Its the Wales of the East

Norwich or East Anglia in general?

 

[bspahh]

Norwich or East Anglia in general?

Norfolk, in particular http://www.alanpartridgequotes.com/welcome-to-the-places-of-my-life/