Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[rdlover777]

Real times trains listed a 720 running from Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria a few hours ago that was canned last at Illford

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F03089/2020-03-16/detailed

 

[357 LTSRail]

https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1239871234562760711?s=20
looks like one made it to Southend Victoria
https://twitter.com/StevenQuy/status/1239703648718008320?s=20

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Presumably the reduced timetable nationally from next week will allow the removal of the mk3 sets?

 

[thealm]

Any updates regarding the transfer of 317887/9

 

[St. Paddy]

Any updates regarding the transfer of 317887/9

Went to Ely yesterday morning for storage

 

[thealm]

Went to Ely yesterday morning for storage

So they are no longer joining Greater Anglia?

 

[St. Paddy]

So they are no longer joining Greater Anglia?

No idea, just saw a picture of them there online

 

[168001]

Have heard on the grape vine today might be the last day for the 90’s as next week GA are running a 2 hourly service and there is enough 745’s in service to cover the diagrams.

 

[fat_boy_pete]

Have heard on the grape vine today might be the last day for the 90’s as next week GA are running a 2 hourly service and there is enough 745’s in service to cover the diagrams.

See the 745 thread. 6 units in service can cover the Sunday timetable operating from Monday. Might see a 90 over the weekend, but might not. Definitely not from Monday apparently.

 

[KingJ]

Based on a letter published by the DfT today, it would appear Greater Anglia were approached last year by the DfT about the feasibility of using some of the redundant Class 365s to solve the PRM-TSI compliance issue with their existing fleet.

The letter makes for interesting reading as to some of the challenges that would have been faced including the number of available units, driver/technician training and route clearance. Ultimately it concludes that given the small impact it would have had on overall compliance, the effort required would have been disproportionate and harmed the delivery timelines of the new fleet instead.

Definitely worth a read - https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/873707/class-365-briefing-note.pdf

 

[Bikeman78]

See the 745 thread. 6 units in service can cover the Sunday timetable operating from Monday. Might see a 90 over the weekend, but might not. Definitely not from Monday apparently.

Assuming all trains are pairs, the proposed service on the West Anglia routes will require 22 units. Normally there are 46 class 317 diagrams and 27 class 379 diagrams. So today could be the last day for non PRM 317s including the whole of the second series. It depends how long it takes to get some 720s up and running.

 

[Bringback309s]

Based on a letter published by the DfT today, it would appear Greater Anglia were approached last year by the DfT about the feasibility of using some of the redundant Class 365s to solve the PRM-TSI compliance issue with their existing fleet.

The letter makes for interesting reading as to some of the challenges that would have been faced including the number of available units, driver/technician training and route clearance. Ultimately it concludes that given the small impact it would have had on overall compliance, the effort required would have been disproportionate and harmed the delivery timelines of the new fleet instead.

Definitely worth a read - https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/873707/class-365-briefing-note.pdf

Interesting, I didn't know it ever got that far

 

[Railperf]

A single loco hauled set with 90004 on the front out today. The other diagrams fulfilled by 745s. 010 and 005 definitely in service.

 

[Bringback309s]

A single loco hauled set with 90004 on the front out today. The other diagrams fulfilled by 745s. 010 and 005 definitely in service.

Was there ever an intention to run a farewell class 90 service pre-corona?

 

[ttrmine123]

Have heard on the grape vine today might be the last day for the 90’s as next week GA are running a 2 hourly service and there is enough 745’s in service to cover the diagrams.

Told last one is on Monday.

 

[43 302]

Told last one is on Monday.

I believe it will be 90 008.

 

[43 302]

Was there ever an intention to run a farewell class 90 service pre-corona?

If Richard Clinnick is to be believed then yes there was a plan. Maybe we can get one later one. I'd like to see them on the WCML as well as the GEML maybe.

 

[33021]

Class 90s will be in West Coast to Blackpool of course ....

 

[PG]

Based on a letter published by the DfT today, it would appear Greater Anglia were approached last year by the DfT about the feasibility of using some of the redundant Class 365s to solve the PRM-TSI compliance issue with their existing fleet.

The letter makes for interesting reading as to some of the challenges that would have been faced including the number of available units, driver/technician training and route clearance. Ultimately it concludes that given the small impact it would have had on overall compliance, the effort required would have been disproportionate and harmed the delivery timelines of the new fleet instead.

Definitely worth a read - https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/873707/class-365-briefing-note.pdf

Thanks for bringing that to our attention - given other events its easy for things to slip under the radar at the moment!

I'd say section 3.2.c is the crucial bit - EMC with the signalling, and as mentioned the fact that it might take Network Rail to instigate a fix. Recent experience on the ECML suggests that would likely take a while to achieve.

 

[Alfie1014]

Looks like today is the first day all 745 operated, with no 90s on the Norwich to Ingatestone shuttles.

 

[F Great Eastern]

According to the latest lines I've heard mentioned about the 720s, they are not running late and are taking the same amount of time to build as was expected to build, as there is no problem with the software, design of performance of these new trains.

The reason that the trains are not entering service on the previously estimated date, is because of an earlier batch of similar trains that were built for Transport for London had some issues with operating with the infrastructure on other lines and this meant that the building of the new units for Greater Anglia had to be pushed back, but there is no problem with the Greater Anglia units and the time it takes to build each train has not been delayed.

 

[samuelmorris]

According to the latest spin I've heard, the 720s are not running late and are taking the same amount of time to build as was expected to build, as there is no problem with the software, design of performance of these new trains.

The reason that the trains are not entering service on the previously estimated date, is because of an earlier batch of similar trains that were built for Transport for London had some issues with operating with the infrastructure on other lines and this meant that the building of the new units for Greater Anglia had to be pushed back, but there is no problem with the Greater Anglia units and the time it takes to build each train has not been delayed.

That first part isn't even spin, it's just straight up false.

 

[F Great Eastern]

That first part isn't even spin, it's just straight up false.

Yes - it was a second hand source, but thought I'd share it!

It's interesting through if the issues are pushed to being the result of the TfL units issues though, rather than the fact that the estimates for these units were always way off in the first place, but that would give them some good PR cover.

Be interesting to see what tact is used later this year once the 360/379 fleets start going off lease, although saying that with the current situation it might not make anywhere near the impact we all feared.

 

[samuelmorris]

Yes - it was a second hand source, but thought I'd share it!

It's interesting through if the issues are pushed to being the result of the TfL units issues though, rather than the fact that the estimates for these units were always way off in the first place, but that would give them some good PR cover.

Be interesting to see what tact is used later this year once the 360/379 fleets start going off lease, although saying that with the current situation it might not make anywhere near the impact we all feared.

If they could point towards the TfL

It's hard to say - there will be far reduced demand for at least the next 6 months, but the general situation at the moment is likely to see PRM deadlines not enforced, yet on the other hand, a reduction (or total halt) to the commissioning, training and testing process. Between now and when people literally aren't allowed out of their homes, if that ever happens, is an opportunity to play catchup to reduce how far these units are behind the schedule they need to be on in order to replace the legacy stock. The question is how far can they catch up before things return to normal. It's not at all obvious at the moment.

 

[Bikeman78]

I believe it will be 90 008.

Yes that one is at Orient Way so it should be out on Monday.

 

[Bikeman78]

It's hard to say - there will be far reduced demand for at least the next 6 months, but the general situation at the moment is likely to see PRM deadlines not enforced, yet on the other hand, a reduction (or total halt) to the commissioning, training and testing process. Between now and when people literally aren't allowed out of their homes, if that ever happens, is an opportunity to play catchup to reduce how far these units are behind the schedule they need to be on in order to replace the legacy stock. The question is how far can they catch up before things return to normal. It's not at all obvious at the moment.

There are so many variables. Is the commissioning of new trains considered critical? How many of the people involved will go sick? It should be easy for AGA to run 100% PRM compliant from Tuesday after the last hauled set gets back to Norwich. However, if they park up all the non compliant units for a few months, they probably won't be very reliable if they need to be used again.

 

[hwl]

Thanks for bringing that to our attention - given other events its easy for things to slip under the radar at the moment!

I'd say section 3.2.c is the crucial bit - EMC with the signalling, and as mentioned the fact that it might take Network Rail to instigate a fix. Recent experience on the ECML suggests that would likely take a while to achieve.

EMC with the signalling is also why they won't be coming back to 3rd rail land (1-16 were originally dual voltage)

 

[hwl]

Yes - it was a second hand source, but thought I'd share it!

It's interesting through if the issues are pushed to being the result of the TfL units issues though, rather than the fact that the estimates for these units were always way off in the first place, but that would give them some good PR cover.

Be interesting to see what tact is used later this year once the 360/379 fleets start going off lease, although saying that with the current situation it might not make anywhere near the impact we all feared.

If they could point towards the TfL

They have half the 5car Anglia units built already and the software is v. similar to the LO software hence once the LO software issues were sorted it has opened the flood gates to getting the Anglia units into service, from now on Anglia are most so the problem!

With reduced service levels and sensible planning a relatively quick roll out should be possible as extra paths are available for testing and training and less worry about unreliability of new stock as it will have less performance impact.
A 5car 720 is quite useful as it effectibvely has 6car capacity which should be more than enough for the time being. Hence cutting back on the 317/ non renatus 321s and then 360s should be relatively easy.

Stopping or virtually stopping all the 90+Mk3 set would reduce lots of maintenance requirement and help allow a focus on getting the rest of the 745 into action.

 

[Shunter_69]

Driver training will be a big issue with the 720’s. I’m not aware of any classroom training starting yet and I don’t think it’ll be able to start until virus restrictions are relaxed.

 

[Class 170101]

Driver training will be a big issue with the 720’s. I’m not aware of any classroom training starting yet and I don’t think it’ll be able to start until virus restrictions are relaxed.

Why?

Must Classroom training be in a classroom? Why not do it over the internet, skype etc?