GTR Branding

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by modernrail, 10 Aug 2015.

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  1. modernrail

    modernrail Member

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    Does anybody else think the GTR branding is total rubbish?

    I presumed it was a temporary measure but was extremely surprised to see it rolled out on the new Class 700 train. This is a real annoyance considering the scope of the new franchise.

    Southern arguably had the best branded franchise in the country, with its design and colours suiting the trains and stations it uses/serves. The GTR branding is, to me, completely amateur. It should be aiming for something akin to TfL branding. Instead, its logos are completely naff and incoherent and its website looks like the sort of site a local authority might put up to advertise kids activities in the school holidays.

    They should be able to do very, very much better than this. We are only talking about a logo for god's sake. If this is the best they can come up with, I suggest they hold a competition for their passengers to come up with something better. Considering the number of designers and imaginative people that will use their routes - I expect it will take about 30 seconds for a far superior design to emerge.

    I cannot bear to see very very expensive new trains ruined by one little detail. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder to I thought I would check what people think on here. If you agree with me, do feel free to bombard them with emails about the point before any more stickers go on and more money is wasted with something that needs to be replaced.
     
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  3. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    I quite like the logo. The livery? Bit rubbish. I quite like the version on the 317s, but then that's also the GA livery just with different coloured doors! I'd be quite happy to see it used, with pink doors, on the TL stock. Could even go for purple on the 12 cars (mainly on the longer routes) and pink on the 8 car units (shorter!). This would then mean at Cambridge, if the 377s got the same livery, that red doors would be Liverpool Street (and Stansted), blue Kings Cross, purple Brighton and pink Tattenham Corner...
     
  4. Saint66

    Saint66 Member

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    Exactly, as you say, it's only a logo... So it really isn't that big an issue for most normal travellers I'm sure. :) (Although, of course, not everyone will like every logo/paint scheme)
     
  5. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I think the logo is quite nice, personally, and I like the idea of a family of logos with different "ribbon" colours. I don't mind the white livery provided they keep it clean.
     
  6. Aictos

    Aictos Established Member

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    I don't think it's a big deal, it's only a logo after all and there are more important matters to be dealt with by stakeholders such as timetables, seats, longer trains etc...

    I don't like the new GW branding on the Thames Valley services but it's just a livery, there are more important issues such as electrifying the GWML and running EMUs on Thames Valley services, just my view.
     
  7. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

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    As long as the inside of a train is comfortable and cleanish i dont care what is on the outside.
     
  8. 321over360

    321over360 Member

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    To be honest, these days, the more basic the livery to trains the better and it is about time instead of having corporate colours, just have one set theme per route, like all East Anglia services (c2c AND Greater Anglia) in the White with Dark Blue doors ie National Expresses current livery (I hate the red used by AGA), that way when the Franchise changes hands then there is no need for a new paint job to trains, just new logos to the trains
     
  9. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    There are worse things about the 700s than the branding. ! The livery was DfTs choice I believe... (There was a feeling going about that too much money was being wasted on repainting trains by TOCs and that everything was a bit of a mess at the moment (just look at East Anglia!). The branding/logo is poor but it doesn't surprise me. As for southern branding....It's boring now and needed a change, plus the name has been dragged through the mud recently.
     
  10. TheNewNo2

    TheNewNo2 Member

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    The plain white/blue is bad for the same reason as the Greater Anglia version - it just looks like they didn't even bother trying. Yes the FCC branding is a bit tatty nowadays, but it was at least interesting.

    The GTR version with black windows is looking a bit better though.

    As for a logo, I never thought much about it.
     
  11. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    How many times? Southern (and Gat EX) are not being rebranded.
     
  12. SPADTrap

    SPADTrap Established Member

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    You mean the AGA version with black windows ;)
     
  13. Islineclear3_1

    Islineclear3_1 Established Member

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    Sometimes the simpler, the better.

    It seems that the modern adage is to adopt base white - especially if stock is to be moved around between TOC's.

    Personally I would like to see the return of malachite green and a simple revarnish every few years....

    I'll get me coat....
     
  14. DelayRepay

    DelayRepay Member

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    As someone who uses Thameslink, I would much rather the managers focused their efforts on ensuring there are enough drivers and generally keeping the service running. I would not be very impressed if I saw them wasting their time and money running 'design a logo' competitions.
     
  15. modernrail

    modernrail Member

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    I am not so much talking about the aesthetic of the logo as much as its usefulness as part of a route brand, as a way of working out that you are in the right place, catching the right train and giving a route identity etc.

    I couldn't agree more that the constant repainting farce is to be avoided and that there are much bigger priorities. However, I think this branding, particularly for Thameslink and put against TfL, is poor.

    You could argue the white body with blue doors is actually quite good as it goes alongside the white body and red doors of the underground, white body and orange doors of the overground and white body and purple doors of crossrail. The logo doesn't fit with this scheme or the blue colour at all. I just think it is an opportunity missed. Maybe they should have gone for the Roundel instead. Yes, there is plenty of the route that is outside London, but this is the same as crossrail. Yes, it is not the same operating model as the overground and crossrail. However, it is called Thameslink and it is a tube frequency through the core, in underground stations where consistent but distinct branding could have been useful.

    Anyway, the new trains are the most important thing and I am sure our friends up north would love to be down to discussing logos on vast expensive new fleets of trains.
     
  16. DelayRepay

    DelayRepay Member

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    The copyright to the Roundel is owned by Transport for London. That logo is used to indicate that a particular service (tube, bus, overground etc) is part of the TfL "family". I therefore doubt that TfL would allow another TOC to use it, because it could tarnish the reputation of TfL.

    The logo says "Thameslink", the route is called "Thameslink". I really don't see why anything else is needed.
     
  17. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    The roundel is a TfL trademark, and in order to use it, there would need to be certain strict criteria that would have to be met by GTR to be able to use it. These criteria would in effect turn it into a TfL service, which the people of Cambridge, Peterborough, Eastbourne etc wouldn't necessarily appreciate! Also remember that the logo is being used as part of a family, notably great northern. I'm not sure that the Kings Lynn express service wants to be associated with a metro style service!

    The alternative would be to use the southern style roundel, but to my mind it looks like it came straight from the previous century, and hardly smacks of 'modern' which is what Thameslink is sort of going for.
     
  18. Islineclear3_1

    Islineclear3_1 Established Member

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    And what is wrong with the Southern roundel !? It is simple and easily identifiable.

    The "Thameslink" logo isn't too bad IMO. At least people can identify what it means - which is the whole point of a logo
     
  19. Stats

    Stats Member

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    The Southern logo is also a trademark owned by TfL, and they have no problems allowing GTR to use that, nor does it turn Southern into a TfL service.
     
  20. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    I never said there was anything wrong with it, other than it looking dated. You wouldn't use something that looks dated to represent these new cutting edge trains, sophisticated signalling systems, and 'futureproof' track remodelling.
     
  21. Islineclear3_1

    Islineclear3_1 Established Member

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    Works on the Class 377/6 and 377/7 which are still relatively new cutting edge trains....
     
  22. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    I don't think that the southern roundel is a TfL trademark. The TfL version uses a ring as opposed to a solid circle, and has a comparatively shorter bar. However, the other poster appeared to be advocating use of the TfL roundel, which TfL wouldn't just give away.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    As for the claims about it becoming a TfL service, I said it would in effect become a TfL service, ≠ becoming a TfL service. TfL would probably require GTR to meet certain London centric criteria (eg prioritising london areas when it goes to pot, certain amounts of announcements about TfL service status during journey etc) to be met to allow use of the logo, which people using the services at the extremities of the network may not appreciate.


    As for the 377/6s and /7s, whilst they are new trains, and relatively cutting edge (which is sort of pushing it when they are direct descendants of trains that started to appear in the early 2000s), they didn't arrive under the same media attention and positive PR that the 700s have, (and the whole thameslink program as a whole)
     
  23. Stats

    Stats Member

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    It is. Check the trademark register
    https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002264122
     
  24. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    I stand corrected! Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
     
  25. Barn

    Barn Established Member

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    If you look at the case history it was originally registered to Govia and then assigned to TfL in exchange for a licence back. Possibly as a settlement to a dispute?
     
  26. lev441

    lev441 Member

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    I completely agree with this. Their website is just so plain looking (boring) and the logo's look very childish to me.. I much prefer the previous yellow and blue thameslink branding from when Govia ran Thameslink first time around..

    I doubt any rebranding will be done for this franchise though...!!
     
  27. glbotu

    glbotu Member

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    But that's really the point. The reason the branding is so boring and simple is for the very reason that they expect someone to paint over it in 4 years time when they re-let it as multiple proper franchises (a Southern franchise and a Thameslink/Great Northern Franchise).
     
  28. talldave

    talldave Established Member

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    At least the logos don't contain any misplaced apostrophes!! ;)
     
  29. Wolfie

    Wolfie Established Member

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    Very probably given that the original London Underground roundel featured a solid disk see link:

    http://www.ltmcollection.org/roundel/about/detailedhistory.html

    "The roundel first appeared on Underground station platforms in 1908. The bar and circle, as it became known, comprised a solid red enamel disc and horizontal blue bar."

    http://www.publiclettering.org.uk/Images/CGT/CoventGMaidaVale.jpg
     
    Last edited: 11 Aug 2015
  30. bengley

    bengley Established Member

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    Uh, what?

    Are you sure this is what the plan is?
     
  31. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    I didnt say they ARE being rebranded... OK.???..... i said southern needs rebranding IMO.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    true......
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    the main problem with the FCC livery is the vinyls. They now basically have a matt finish and dont have the depth of paint. It always was an interesting livery (like FGWs version too) but the GTR livery that is being apllied is fresh and bright..... although i think a stripe or something is needed on the 700s, 319s (although they are going) and 365s. THat painted 317 looks good with the black/dark grey window surrounds/thick strike maybe this should be applied accross the fleet.

    Wheres that website that you can create your own liveries. Id like to see a 700 with black window thick stripe.
     
    Last edited: 11 Aug 2015
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