swt_passenger
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Being pedantic, you actually wrote Southern 'NEEDED" rebranding. That has a subtly different meaning to NEEDS re-branding...
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GTR Branding
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Being pedantic, you actually wrote Southern 'NEEDED" rebranding. That has a subtly different meaning to NEEDS re-branding...
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RailUK Forums
When a 365 rolls in with the new livery, it looks very fresh and clean (and it seems that they always look clean in my experience - which probably makes a BIG difference).
A stark contrast to the 379s on AGA where the design of the carriages means the ends all get dirty and brown, and seem to stay that way even when put through a wash.
The 365s therefore look brand new, the 379s look quite old. How ironic!
A stark contrast to the 379s on AGA where the design of the carriages means the ends all get dirty and brown, and seem to stay that way even when put through a wash.
The 365s therefore look brand new, the 379s look quite old. How ironic!
True. But Southern already use a version; I believe that there was a dispute with TfL, which was resolved. Therefore it's not completely out of court to imagine that a variant could have been used on Thameslink.
canadawater
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I love GC interiors- the grey carpet and seats make it feel really spacious and the logos good too. The worst interiors have to be First TP!
Class377/5
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Wow, no one had put the actual reason for the livery being what it is.
Basically TSGN is a management contact, as a result get a fixed fee for completing certain targets, ie PPM, station standards etc.
Where as in a normal franchise you'd have money to invest from the you keep, in a management contact you have to for rebranding out of your own pockets. What's happened with GTR is they decided to keep the basic livery designed by the DfT for Thameslink and it to GN new stock too. They've kept the Southern it will cost millions to replace for no benefit to anyone at all. GatEx is being kept in line with current branding too.
The next franchise is expected to put the units into a different livery however.
That said, some bidders for TSGN were going to have a rebranding of some parts of the franchise.
Basically TSGN is a management contact, as a result get a fixed fee for completing certain targets, ie PPM, station standards etc.
Where as in a normal franchise you'd have money to invest from the you keep, in a management contact you have to for rebranding out of your own pockets. What's happened with GTR is they decided to keep the basic livery designed by the DfT for Thameslink and it to GN new stock too. They've kept the Southern it will cost millions to replace for no benefit to anyone at all. GatEx is being kept in line with current branding too.
The next franchise is expected to put the units into a different livery however.
That said, some bidders for TSGN were going to have a rebranding of some parts of the franchise.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Personally an 8 car 319 in the "new" livery looks really good (I think) - and the external cleaning seems much improved of late.
However - the 313's on GN look increasingly "tired" - bar (I think) 313041 which has had a severe graffiti attack and would not look out of place on the South Bronx IRT circa 1980 - what gets me is that they have reapplied the "GN" flash over the damaged vinyls - when it really needs a complete make over. Yes _ I know they have not long for this world ....but still , appearances etc.
However - the 313's on GN look increasingly "tired" - bar (I think) 313041 which has had a severe graffiti attack and would not look out of place on the South Bronx IRT circa 1980 - what gets me is that they have reapplied the "GN" flash over the damaged vinyls - when it really needs a complete make over. Yes _ I know they have not long for this world ....but still , appearances etc.
well, i shouldve slipped a "IMO" in there.
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i guess when the 377/5s go to GN services they will be painted in the light grey and blue
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Some if not alot of the 377s especially the 3 cars and the early 4 cars are looking a bit faded... they all had a little touch up when they got "refreshed" but i can see them getting a full repaint before the end of this 7 year franchise. You'd assume they would continue to wear SOuthern colours...
Porterbrook handily publishes major maintenance dates.
377/5s are due to for their scheduled repaint from July 2016, 377/1s from February 2019, 377/4s from August 2019 and 377/3s from October 2019.
cool. BUt blimey, the 377/3s will be in a right old state in 4 years!!! Like i said they only got a little touch up when refreshed so only the odd panel was painted. The 377/5s are newer so strange that they will get their repaints earlier.... unless they are allowed to just get away with a touch up too.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'd agree - while it has been established that this will not be the case, I think a green and grey version of the GTR ribbon with Southern wording would have looked good.
Class377/5
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There a GN livery yet shown. I'd expect the 377/5 to go into Thameslink livery.
same here.....! Or the Thameslink grey livery with just the current southern logo on it and green doors.
I would probably have given Southern a GTR ribbon in green so it looks a proper part of the family, particularly as Thameslink and Southern are now mentioned together in leaflets, posters etc.
The current 'Southern' logo does look old fashioned which I'm not sure is the right look for a commuter TOC. An old fashioned look harking back to the 'golden era of travel' works more for an intercity operator IMO.
The current 'Southern' logo does look old fashioned which I'm not sure is the right look for a commuter TOC. An old fashioned look harking back to the 'golden era of travel' works more for an intercity operator IMO.
bengley
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Gatwick Express don't have a logo! It's just stylised text. I think they should have a logo for sure.
The new logos and minimalist liveries would make a new Southern logo seem like a logical step. The new app, as well as the website, suits a 'web 2.0' style look - or the look of any new startup app/service, and as such the logo needs to be quite flat and simple.
However, I understand that it would cost a fortune to do so - when there's no actual need as nothing has actually changed.
But one day I could see the logo being simplified/flattened and then you could just gradually roll out the new logo over time.
However, I understand that it would cost a fortune to do so - when there's no actual need as nothing has actually changed.
But one day I could see the logo being simplified/flattened and then you could just gradually roll out the new logo over time.
The Gatwick Express logo is the same one that National Express GX used - possibly the only logo to have been kept over a franchise owner change?
adrock1976
Established Member
I don't know if anybody has ever thought about going back to basics, but could the logo for the Bedford - Brighton route be a combination of the Midland Railway and London, Brighton, & South Coast Railway?
Also, the logos for the Peterborough and Cambridge - Tattenham Corner and Caterham routes be a combination of the Great Northern Railway and the South Eastern Railway?
Both of the above would cover the intended service patterns, and would have a visible historical context too, in a similar way how the crest of Darlington FC features a Quaker hat and Locomotion Number 1.
Also, the logos for the Peterborough and Cambridge - Tattenham Corner and Caterham routes be a combination of the Great Northern Railway and the South Eastern Railway?
Both of the above would cover the intended service patterns, and would have a visible historical context too, in a similar way how the crest of Darlington FC features a Quaker hat and Locomotion Number 1.
There was a slight alteration when govia took over. 10 points if you noticed it ??????
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No the one saying we've dumped the nice trains and expect you to pay premium for travelling on clapped out museum exhibits!
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The trains don't have the word Gatwick on at all! So much for a recognisable brand - it's pathetic.
GatwickDepress
Established Member
No point having trains with Gatwick Express on them if they're going to be running Eastbridge or Brigvic express. 
I wouldn't at all be surprised if the 387/2s had GatEx branding though, as shown on mockups, considering they'll be dedicated purely to GatEx services.
I wouldn't at all be surprised if the 387/2s had GatEx branding though, as shown on mockups, considering they'll be dedicated purely to GatEx services.
swt_passenger
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They'll still run twice hourly to Brighton - and it will supposedly be all day, not just in the peaks from Dec 2015.
No point having trains with Gatwick Express on them if they're going to be running Eastbridge or Brigvic express.
I wouldn't at all be surprised if the 387/2s had GatEx branding though, as shown on mockups, considering they'll be dedicated purely to GatEx services.
I know - my point being that the whole things is a mess. Visitors to the UK arrive at the airport, looking out for this expensive train service that they've bought expensive tickets for, only to discover that the train is the only place the branding doesn't appear. Up until the moment they've arrived on the platform it's red station, red staff, red ticket machines... then.... no red train :cry:
The equivalent in the airline industry would be for EasyJet to write the word "Jet" in blue on all their planes....
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Probably should have had larger side displays so the naming can be put on there and changed as required, although I suppose you can still do it like they do with S stock on the tube with paged displays.
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