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GTR Southern or South West Trains?
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Hahaha DOO isn't bad. Although GTR is in the same group as Southern and they are not exactly having a great time.
I would chose SWT out of the 2. I had this dilemma when I started and went for Great Western. (FGW at the time)
As for SWT have lots of new and exciting plans ahead. Where will you be based with SWT?
theironroad
Established Member
Well the new 707s will have in cab doo cameras so that would be the first target on the suburban network. The rest of the suburban network will need a lot of new kit for doo, either retrofitting body side cameras or putting in new platform equipment if that's still allowed.
Longer distance, such as Portsmouth, Salisbury and Weymouth would probably go OBS style I'd guess.
Don't forget there is likely to be a break clause in the new franchise to allow tfl to grab london suburban routes and I believe all tfl heavy rail is or will be soon doo.
godfreycomplex
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Retrofit of on-board CCTV to anything that SWT has that isn't a 707 would be prohibitively expensive (a lot of rewiring I gather, plus where in the cab would you put the monitors?) and would probably entail reasonably large chunks of the fleet out of service for long periods of time; which is obviously not a popular option.
All of SWT's fleet other than the 707s/456s have corridor connections on the front; and you're not allowed to do DOO on trains with corridor connections without CCTV I gather. Even if it "magically" became possible; the installation and upkeep of 500 odd sets of platform monitors won't come cheaply either.
The future's a bit wobbly on the inner suburban; but outside of the M25 I'd say (with the pinch of salt that this statement always carries) guards will be there until at least fleet replacement; and that; for the Desiros/Junipers at least; is a VERY long time away.
But I digress, back to the OP's question.
SWT. I echo ComUtoR's comments as to why
Hopefully I'll hold you up at a red sometime
All of SWT's fleet other than the 707s/456s have corridor connections on the front; and you're not allowed to do DOO on trains with corridor connections without CCTV I gather. Even if it "magically" became possible; the installation and upkeep of 500 odd sets of platform monitors won't come cheaply either.
The future's a bit wobbly on the inner suburban; but outside of the M25 I'd say (with the pinch of salt that this statement always carries) guards will be there until at least fleet replacement; and that; for the Desiros/Junipers at least; is a VERY long time away.
But I digress, back to the OP's question.
SWT. I echo ComUtoR's comments as to why
Hopefully I'll hold you up at a red sometime
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I'm thinking of applying to SWT at Salisbury, does anyone know what routes they cover? Sorry for the slight change of tact to this thread.
Retrofit of on-board CCTV to anything that SWT has that isn't a 707 would be prohibitively expensive (a lot of rewiring I gather, plus where in the cab would you put the monitors?) and would probably entail reasonably large chunks of the fleet out of service for long periods of time; which is obviously not a popular option.
All of SWT's fleet other than the 707s/456s have corridor connections on the front; and you're not allowed to do DOO on trains with corridor connections without CCTV I gather. Even if it "magically" became possible; the installation and upkeep of 500 odd sets of platform monitors won't come cheaply either.
The future's a bit wobbly on the inner suburban; but outside of the M25 I'd say (with the pinch of salt that this statement always carries) guards will be there until at least fleet replacement; and that; for the Desiros/Junipers at least; is a VERY long time away.
But I digress, back to the OP's question.
SWT. I echo ComUtoR's comments as to why
Hopefully I'll hold you up at a red sometime
Hopefully!
Thanks for the insight. It does seem like the future for london suburban routes will depend on what the DFT and TFL agree going forward..
Shorts? I'm sold!
theironroad
Established Member
Core routes are Waterloo to Exeter and salisbury to Bristol.
Also, salisbury to romsey to Southampton to Eastleigh and vice versa (romsey rounders)
Eastleigh to Basingstoke for diversion (not sure if all the depot sign)
Also some stuff around Yeovil, there are now a couple of services salisbury to Weymouth via westbury but not sure exactly how much.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Until you see some of the legs wearing them.....
vikingdriver
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Like already mentioned...
All drivers sign:
Salisbury to Waterloo
Salisbury to Exeter St Davids
Salisbury to Bristol West Junction / Bedminster
Westbury to Yeovil Junction via Frome and the avoider
Salisbury to Eastleigh via Southampton Central
Eastleigh to Basingstoke
Eastleigh to Romsey via Chandlers Ford
A few sign:
Yeovil Pen Mill to Weymouth
99% 158/9 work with a small link who also sign 444/450 traction and a small link who sign MPV traction.
godfreycomplex
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Not sure exactly; but definitely 455/456/458. Possibly 450 as well. 444s and 158/159s in the higher links.
There are a fair few links at Waterloo but as far as I understand it Link 2 add Alton/Bournemouth and Link 1 add Salisbury+159s. The number of years to get into those links is currently running well into double figures (as I understand)
Not sure how many links there are; I think the starters do a lot of Kingston/Hounslow rounders; which are not exactly riveting I gather; plus Chessington/Hampton Court. Guildford (via Woking; Epsom & Oxshott) could be a starter; or it could be added later. Possibly Windsor and Weybridge as well; but again I'm not sure what link. Waterloo drivers no longer go past Virginia Water or Guildford I believe. Clapham Yard is more or less a given; not sure if they do Wimbledon Park though
If anyone can correct any of the above; please do so.
There are a fair few links at Waterloo but as far as I understand it Link 2 add Alton/Bournemouth and Link 1 add Salisbury+159s. The number of years to get into those links is currently running well into double figures (as I understand)
Not sure how many links there are; I think the starters do a lot of Kingston/Hounslow rounders; which are not exactly riveting I gather; plus Chessington/Hampton Court. Guildford (via Woking; Epsom & Oxshott) could be a starter; or it could be added later. Possibly Windsor and Weybridge as well; but again I'm not sure what link. Waterloo drivers no longer go past Virginia Water or Guildford I believe. Clapham Yard is more or less a given; not sure if they do Wimbledon Park though
If anyone can correct any of the above; please do so.
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Many thanks to you and ironroad.
godfreycomplex
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Thanks for the detailed response
You're welcome
As I say it could be inaccurate. Also I forgot to mention they do Shepperton; and Waterloo is one of the (I believe) relatively few SWT depots that has night turns. (Last one to Guildford and first one back from Guildford is one of them)
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Starter Link Traction Knowledge: 444/450/455/456/458(5)
Starter Link (4 & 6) Route Knowledge:
Waterloo to Waterloo (Via Richmond/Hounslow vv)
Waterloo to Waterloo (Via Kingston/Richmond vv)
Waterloo to Woking
Woking to Guildford
Waterloo to Chessington South
Waterloo to Dorking
Waterloo to Guildford (Via Cobham or Epsom)
Waterloo to Weybridge (Via Hounslow)
Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
Waterloo to Shepperton (Via Kingston/Richmond)
Point Pleasant Junction to Wimbledon Park (Via East Putney)
Clapham Yard & Wimbledon Park Depot
Link 3: Add Waterloo to Reading and soon Waterloo to Portsmouth (Direct Only)
Link 2: (and 5, which is Night Link) Add Waterloo to Poole and soon Waterloo to Alton
Link 1 Add 158/159s and Waterloo to Sailsbury
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Average is 12 months (depending on Depot & availablity of Driving Instructors)
The current training programme is:
Basic Rail (including doing some turns with a driver)
Rules
Slow Movements in the Yard
Driving Hours w/ Driving Instructor
Traction (including attaching & deattching units)
Driving Hours w/ Driving Instructor (must do 225 hours day light & 75 hour night time)
Five Day Final
Route Learning
Fully Productive
However.....the Mcnualty Report suggests that the railway can save money by cutting costs through training so the plan is:
Basic Rail
Driving Hours w/DI
Rules
Traction
Driving Hours w/ DI (up to 400, which will include route learning)
Five Day Final
Full Productive
Thank you for that WA_Driver!
swt class 450
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This is a very easy question. 100% South West Trains. Govia (GTR) are awful. I would never want to work for anything that is run by Govia or Go Ahead. They are a terrible incompetent company. I would recommend staying away from them. SWT however actually seem quite good and in my opinion are the best TOC in the UK. So i would definitely recommend working for SWT instead of GTR.
Thanks, after reading everyone's comments it does seem like a no-brainer now
theironroad
Established Member
Thanks. Very informative post.
Do link 1 drivers also do the reading/Poole/Portsmouth/Alton work as well as salisbury plus the rest? Or is Poole only in link 2 and salisbury only in 1 etc.
How long roughly does a new driver take to get into link 1?
Patters1983
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I'm curious...why has southern got such a bad reputation? what's it like for drivers specifically?
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
No. Link 1 don't Reading or Alton or Portsmouth. But they do get more cover/spare turns as do link 2
Erm.....guess the phrase "How long is a piece of string" is properly the best answer to give. However looking at it now. I'd would say at least 10+ years. Depends on the turnover of drivers in those links.
I can tell you that whoever is writing this crap does not work for Southern.
Just because there is a dispute ongoing with the conductors and the DFT are trying to grind everyone down, and the management are inept at doing their job properly does not mean that all of a sudden Southern drivers have rubbish TC's and C's in fact quite the opposite, I won't go into details as I'll be here all day but to cut a long story short it's a lot better than some of the TOC's out there.The reputation of Southern is in tatters because Govia and other people are running it into the ground, making promises that are impossible to keep.
There are some excellent people at Southern in fact some of the nicest people I've worked with drivers,platform,gate line etc... It's just a shame that everyone has decided that we are all to blame for this whole sorry mess that is going on.
The new system is now in place, drivers are now starting to move trains in passenger service after 5 weeks, as apposed to the original 13 weeks, this has lead to some of them being called 'ball in the bag drivers' by a very small number of old school drivers. Intermittent assessment are being done on company issued iPads at home.
Yes...I noticed. Had a trainee & DI take my train over the other day definitely see the difference straight away. The trainee certainly looked like "a rabbit in the headlights"
Shame really, our "old" training programme is going has it works brilliantly. Seems to be that all driver training by TOCs is to become the same national standard (like everything else on the railway) which is a good thing at times but can also be bad as well
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