GTR Southern Shere TVMs being replaced by Scheidt & Bachmann TVMs.

[paul1609]

I would expect a decision to provide a card only TVM to be based on a risk assessment of local vandalism and theft.

I reckon the marshlink ones are card only because they are managed from Eastbourne which in the case of Appledore is nearly 40 miles away by road and well over an hour away. The stations are cleaned by contractors and apart from part time ticket offices at Rye and Ham Street that's about it for station staff. As the Turbostars aren't DOO, you can in fact always buy your ticket from the guard anyway. I've never seen any revenue protection from Southern east of Bexhill. I suspect the passenger numbers and relatively low fares mean it's not cost effective.

 

[Haywain]

Thameslink (GTR) have recently installed a couple of new machines at Luton, of the S&B ST-21 variety. Although I don't need to use them, I had a look at them after reading this thread. I am not impressed. The display is quite low down and vertical to the machine, making it difficult to read from a normal standing position. And the pin entry pad is very low meaning that most adults will have to bend to use it, introducing the risk of headbutting the machine in the process. I expect that they will be seen as being easier to use for some disabled people, but for the majority they seem very poor. As for the functionality, the 'tickets from another station' element has gone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thameslink (GTR) have recently installed a couple of new machines at Luton, of the S&B ST-21 variety. Although I don't need to use them, I had a look at them after reading this thread. I am not impressed. The display is quite low down and vertical to the machine, making it difficult to read from a normal standing position. And the pin entry pad is very low meaning that most adults will have to bend to use it, introducing the risk of headbutting the machine in the process. I expect that they will be seen as being easier to use for some disabled people, but for the majority they seem very poor.

I think this kind of thing is going to cause big problems in the coming years as the taller generation of 1980s kids get less mobile and have issues bending their backs. I think it will be necessary to provide both high and low screens on TVMs, ATMs and the likes.

As for the functionality, the 'tickets from another station' element has gone.

Good bit of Govia incompetence there, given that LM just introduced it!

 

[talldave]

I think this kind of thing is going to cause big problems in the coming years as the taller generation of 1980s kids get less mobile and have issues bending their backs. I think it will be necessary to provide both high and low screens on TVMs, ATMs and the likes.

I agree, it's getting worse. Whilst I'm all for services being accessible, it does seem to be being achieved by discrimination against proper height people. Only this weekend did I have to kneel down to enter my car reg on a parking machine with the display and keyboard about 2ft off the ground.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree, it's getting worse. Whilst I'm all for services being accessible, it does seem to be being achieved by discrimination against proper height people. Only this weekend did I have to kneel down to enter my car reg on a parking machine with the display and keyboard about 2ft off the ground.

It's caused by the very common view that "disabled = wheelchair". It also leads to things like providing ramps and not steps, which discriminates against those who can walk but not very far - you need to provide both.

I think disability regulations need a revisit to ensure they genuinely do provide access for all.

Priority seats are a similar issue - as a tall person I like them, but rarely do I ever see the "target market" wishing to sit there - they usually choose a narrow-pitch airline seat so they can use the seat back in front to help them sit down. This is to my benefit (I've never, ever had to move from one, and if one is available I sit in one on every journey), but that's not what they are for - they should be of benefit to people of limited mobility! Same on buses - the frontmost seat of the rear section is normally marked for use by people of limited mobility, but none of them ever choose to sit there because they can't hold onto the seat back in front as there isn't one!

Therefore I think the idea of priority seats requiring extra legroom should be dropped in favour of every seat having adequate, but not excessive, legroom, just marking the rows nearest the doors (or one row back on buses) as priority seats but the spacing not being any different.

 

[Hassocks5489]

Latest update on new machines: Shere FASTticket still in place at Brighton, Worthing, Preston Park (Up platform machine), Hassocks (both sides), Burgess Hill (Down side), Coulsdon South (machine outside station), East Croydon, Birkbeck and Littlehampton as of this weekend. No further changes at Hove yet.

 

[jon0844]

I posted elsewhere that the leases on the old machines had run out and the hardware was considered life expired, and that the Shere machines were/are all going.

I've seen the new machine at WGC and found it odd that they've got vinyls stuck on that look badly sized and cut out, a weird duplication of the 'Tickets' text, graphics that don't line up to things on the machines, and a barcode reader that is given undue prominence - considering nobody seems to know what it's for.

https://goo.gl/photos/SSFe86B38hvKQ4zP7

I do think the software is okay though, especially for managing railcards and adding/subtracting adults and children, or editing things before purchase - but it really does need to be updated to sell tickets from another origin, and to do boundary extensions.

Do that and I'd have few complaints. The fact they take CPCs massively speeds up purchasing times.

 

[Joe Paxton]

...
I do think the software is okay though, especially for managing railcards and adding/subtracting adults and children, or editing things before purchase - but it really does need to be updated to sell tickets from another origin, and to do boundary extensions.
...

I don't think the software on these new machines is much different from any other S&B TVM, but perhaps I've missed something.

Like you say quick payment by CPC is great, likewise the ability to get banknotes as change - I'm reminded of how some TVMs on the continent don't even take notes, only coins and cards.

Re the barcode reader - maybe one day you'll need to scan a barcode on your Railcard in order to get a discount? (Ditto for PRIV fares.)

 

[tsr]

I've had a bit of a play with one or two of these machines in the odd spare moment over the last couple of days.

Regarding the software, I must say it does appear to be more in the way of an iteration of what similar TOCs like Southeastern have been using on some of their TVMs (particularly ones which I've helped my friends use at London Bridge in the last couple of years).

The ITSO smartcard functions seem to work OK, but I'm mystified as to why it's labelled "ITSO" on the public interface - I'd imagine very, very few passengers, even key smartcard holders, would be aware of what ITSO is, and, as a result, what that button does.

I was also disappointed in the lack of "tickets from another station", as well as having to have two pages of Railcards, whereas I'm sure more could fit on one screen.

I did find the display to be clear, and way more responsive than most outdoor TVMs I've ever used before. The graphics seemed a little "lo-res" and with limited colours, but not to the point where it limited usability.

Having a contactless payment pad was nice, though I'm surprised it's not integrated in the main card reader.

I would expect a decision to provide a card only TVM to be based on a risk assessment of local vandalism and theft.

Not quite. Ashurst is no more risky than the others quoted, such as Faygate or Holmwood, for example. (Trust me, I know all of those stations pretty well!)

 

[jon0844]

I don't think the software on these new machines is much different from any other S&B TVM, but perhaps I've missed something.

Like you say quick payment by CPC is great, likewise the ability to get banknotes as change - I'm reminded of how some TVMs on the continent don't even take notes, only coins and cards.

Re the barcode reader - maybe one day you'll need to scan a barcode on your Railcard in order to get a discount? (Ditto for PRIV fares.)

I was hoping it would be to scan the Aztec code on a previous ticket to quickly get the exact same ticket again. Indeed it might be for all I know.

Not that all tickets print with these.

Another option is for quicker TOD collecting.

Or a load of uses as yet unannounced, but do the thinner machines have the reader? If not, once again people will have to choose a machine carefully (with them not being as clearly labelled and organised as at most tube station ticket halls).

 

[swt class 450]

I was also thinking maybe card only TVMs are put in places where theft is more likely but that cant be the case as places like Aldrington / Portslade / Fishersgate / Southwick all have cash and card TVMs despite being in very run down dodgy unsafe areas. And then places like Appledore / Ashurst / Faygate / Holmwood / Ockley / Warnham are indeed all very safe nice places yet some have card only TVMs and some have cash and card TVMs. And then it doesn't make sense how Ashurst / Cowden / Hever are all very similar stations right next to each other in very similar areas yet Ashurst has a card only TVM where as Cowden and Hever both have cash and card TVMs. And also Ham Street has two cash and card TVMs yet Appledore only has a card only TVM. There really doesn't seem to be any logic behind which stations have card only TVMs and which stations have cash and card TVMs. Although that doesn't really surprise me as i don't think Govia know what logic means.

 

[infobleep]

So do the new machines accept the new £5 notes and £1 coins?

 

[swt class 450]

So do the new machines accept the new £5 notes and £1 coins?

Yes they do indeed accept both the new £1 coin and the new £5 note (and i presume also the new £10 note as well). I imagine that this could have been another major reason why they are replacing their TVMs so that they don't have to bother upgrading the old Shere ones.

 

[Hassocks5489]

I imagine that this could have been another major reason why they are replacing their TVMs so that they don't have to bother upgrading the old Shere ones.

I have heard anecdotally that this is the case.

One machine was installed at Worthing today. The cash and card Shere in the ticket office was marked as out of service this morning; by 1700 a new S&B was in, and was already on ticket number 00037.

 

[Dent]

Have they improved the print quality from the usual S&B machines? If it is the usual S&B print quality then it really is a step backwards from the Shere machines.

 

[Kite159]

Maybe they got rid of the "tickets from other stations" feature to limit misuse by certain passengers having the bright idea to save money on a trip (to say Brighton) buying from the last station (i.e. Hove to Brighton), knowing that ticket checks are very unlikely

 

[Hassocks5489]

Have they improved the print quality from the usual S&B machines? If it is the usual S&B print quality then it really is a step backwards from the Shere machines.

Print quality from the 5 machines I've used so far is comparable to the usual S&B quality. I haven't seen any particularly awful examples yet, but I'm sure they will come in time!

 

[infobleep]

Yes they do indeed accept both the new £1 coin and the new £5 note (and i presume also the new £10 note as well). I imagine that this could have been another major reason why they are replacing their TVMs so that they don't have to bother upgrading the old Shere ones.

That's good to hear. I kind of thought they would but it is GTR.

 

[JaJaWa]

Also there is a headphone socket as well that allows you to plug in headphones (i am guessing this is something to help people with hearing difficulties possibly).

Sounds like they have more features than my phone.

I posted elsewhere that the leases on the old machines had run out and the hardware was considered life expired, and that the Shere machines were/are all going.

I've seen the new machine at WGC and found it odd that they've got vinyls stuck on that look badly sized and cut out, a weird duplication of the 'Tickets' text, graphics that don't line up to things on the machines, and a barcode reader that is given undue prominence - considering nobody seems to know what it's for.

https://goo.gl/photos/SSFe86B38hvKQ4zP7

I do think the software is okay though, especially for managing railcards and adding/subtracting adults and children, or editing things before purchase - but it really does need to be updated to sell tickets from another origin, and to do boundary extensions.

Do that and I'd have few complaints. The fact they take CPCs massively speeds up purchasing times.

The design on this is absolutely horrendous.

Maybe they got rid of the "tickets from other stations" feature to limit misuse by certain passengers having the bright idea to save money on a trip (to say Brighton) buying from the last station (i.e. Hove to Brighton), knowing that ticket checks are very unlikely

I highly doubt it, as all machines nationally are meant to have it soon.

 

[Dann]

I was travelling from Welwyn North to New Barnet today and found this notice on the old TVM in the station that it was out of order (attached). It says that they are replacing the existing fleet of self service ticket machines and that it may be necessary to reduce the number of machines available while they're replacing all the TVMs.

The notice bears all four logos for Great Northern, Thameslink, Southern and GatEx, so it would suggest this is a full GTR network rollout.

Also - the new TVM at New Barnet doesn't support oyster (I've also attached a picture of this machine) instead it has oyster sized black circle where it would seem a reader is supposed to be which says "Oyster not available". Instead you have to use the old machines for managing your oyster card.

 

[maniacmartin]

The loss of the tickets from another station feature is annoying, because I use it multiple times a week to buy tickets from London Terminals or Boundary Zone tickets for the following day. Sadly it's not possible to buy these from a ticket office in the evening as Southern often close their ticket offices earlier than advertised. As BZ tickets aren't available online, once the new machines reach Purley I'll now have to queue at the ticket office in the morning.

As I've not seen these machines in person yet, can somebody tell me if they offer tickets for future travel, departing e.g. Tomorrow?

 

[talldave]

The loss of the tickets from another station feature is annoying, because I use it multiple times a week to buy tickets from London Terminals or Boundary Zone tickets for the following day. Sadly it's not possible to buy these from a ticket office in the evening as Southern often close their ticket offices earlier than advertised. As BZ tickets aren't available online, once the new machines reach Purley I'll now have to queue at the ticket office in the morning.

As I've not seen these machines in person yet, can somebody tell me if they offer tickets for future travel, departing e.g. Tomorrow?

Do we know if the removal of this feature is deliberate or just down to GTR incompetence in forgetting to add it to the specification on the purchase order?

 

[swt class 450]

The loss of the tickets from another station feature is annoying, because I use it multiple times a week to buy tickets from London Terminals or Boundary Zone tickets for the following day. Sadly it's not possible to buy these from a ticket office in the evening as Southern often close their ticket offices earlier than advertised. As BZ tickets aren't available online, once the new machines reach Purley I'll now have to queue at the ticket office in the morning.

As I've not seen these machines in person yet, can somebody tell me if they offer tickets for future travel, departing e.g. Tomorrow?

They do have a "tickets for tomorrow" feature but that's it. The don't have a full "ticket for future travel" feature which is found on other TOCs machines (such as the Scheidt & Bachmann ones on the Southeastern network).

Do we know if the removal of this feature is deliberate or just down to GTR incompetence in forgetting to add it to the specification on the purchase order?

Both Shere and Scheidt & Bachmann machines are definitely capable of having a "tickets from another station" feature so i don't know why GTR aren't using it on their new machines. London Overground and TFL Rail have it fully working on all of theirs (and even sell rover and ranger tickets [including All Line Rover tickets] from their TVMs). East Midlands Trains and South West Trains also have a limited "tickets from another EMT station" or "tickets from another SWT station" on theirs. I really hope that GTR will add the full "tickets from another station" feature like their Shere machines had but as they are so incompetent it wouldn't surprise me if they don't.

Another thing i noticed is the Scheidt & Bachmann machines have much less languages then the Shere ones did.

The Shere machines had these 7 languages:
• English
• French
• German
• Italian
• Polish
• Spanish
• Welsh

The Scheidt & Bachmann machines only have these 3 languages:
• English
• French
• German

So i think this is certainly not a good idea especially at places like Gatwick Airport and Luton Airport Parkway and other busy stations.

 

[jon0844]

Has anyone noticed these new machines being out of order with quite alarming frequency? At WGC, one of the new machines was already covered up to take cards only, while at Hatfield I think I can honestly say that in all my visits, the card only machine says 'out of service' more than half the time.

And today, I collected tickets for my wife at one of the card only (narrow) S&B machines at St Albans, and it didn't print one of the tickets (adult outbound SAC to GTW). It paused for some time, made some odd noises, then continued - and I believe I ended up without the card receipt and that ticket, but DID get the child outbound, two return tickets and a collection receipt (which said 4 coupons issued).

I tried the next machine to see if it would re-issue, but it said they'd all been collected.. so I guess these fancy new machines have no way of checking to see that a ticket successfully printed and was issued (couldn't it have a simple infrared sensor to check a ticket has dropped?).

Fortunately, much to my extreme surprise, having gone inside they DID issue a new ticket FOC. I really wasn't expecting that, as he initially said they can't print new tickets when showing as printed. So well done GTR for that, but I hope for everyone's sake that these new machines are going to be more reliable than the ones they replaced in the long run.

I'm somewhat unconvinced thus far.

 

[swt class 450]

Has anyone noticed these new machines being out of order with quite alarming frequency? At WGC, one of the new machines was already covered up to take cards only, while at Hatfield I think I can honestly say that in all my visits, the card only machine says 'out of service' more than half the time.

And today, I collected tickets for my wife at one of the card only (narrow) S&B machines at St Albans, and it didn't print one of the tickets (adult outbound SAC to GTW). It paused for some time, made some odd noises, then continued - and I believe I ended up without the card receipt and that ticket, but DID get the child outbound, two return tickets and a collection receipt (which said 4 coupons issued).

I tried the next machine to see if it would re-issue, but it said they'd all been collected.. so I guess these fancy new machines have no way of checking to see that a ticket successfully printed and was issued (couldn't it have a simple infrared sensor to check a ticket has dropped?).

Fortunately, much to my extreme surprise, having gone inside they DID issue a new ticket FOC. I really wasn't expecting that, as he initially said they can't print new tickets when showing as printed. So well done GTR for that, but I hope for everyone's sake that these new machines are going to be more reliable than the ones they replaced in the long run.

I'm somewhat unconvinced thus far.

Yes from my experience they are very unreliable. I have actually seen both the new ST21 (card only) and ST71 (cash and card) TVMs out of use more times than i have seen them working. They seem even more unreliable than the Shere machines and the original Scheidt & Bachmann ST70 machines.

 

[trevmonk]

Has anyone noticed these new machines being out of order with quite alarming frequency? At WGC, one of the new machines was already covered up to take cards only, while at Hatfield I think I can honestly say that in all my visits, the card only machine says 'out of service' more than half the time.

Some of the new machines at St Albans have notices on them saying they have been made card only due to a spate of cash thefts from this type of machine. On the plus side they seem a lot faster than the old machines which would sometimes take 20 seconds for the touch screen to respond.

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, even older S&B machines can take that long (but the Shere ones at Hatfield are another level entirely).

I hope they're all being changed out, but the new ones seem to be card only all over. Yet the old ones aren't.

Is it something to do with the new ones being ridiculously easy to open?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Nitpicking but haven't the Shere machines been Worldline machines for a number of years now?

 

[Hadders]

I was in SWT land yesterday and although the machines had tickets from another station they couldn't sell a boundary zone ticket. Surely this is the most basic requirement if you're going to do tickets from another station?

 

[ji459]

For those wanting use Shere machines before they are replaced, while out and about yesterday I noticed they were still at these stations:

• Bognor Regis
• Cheam
• Dorking
• East Grinstead
• Ham Street
• Hever
• Hurst Green
• Lingfield
• Oxted
• Plumpton
• Preston Park
• Riddlesdown
• Sandersted
• Upper Warlingham