Guard using a green flag to signal to the driver

[Deepgreen]

I travelled on my usual North Downs line train this morning and it seemed that the buzzer system had failed, as the guard was using a green flag when leaving stations - nostalgic!

It made me wonder how much use is made these days of flags by train crews - this was the first time I'd seen it for many years.

 

[adamello]

I travelled on my usual North Downs line train this morning and it seemed that the buzzer system had failed, as the guard was using a green flag when leaving stations - nostalgic!

It made me wonder how much use is made these days of flags by train crews - this was the first time I'd seen it for many years.

At Southampton Central they dispatch Southern Trains with flags, due to Southern being DOO, and SOU not being a SR station not equipped for DOO Dispatch

 

[Deepgreen]

At Southampton Central they dispatch Southern Trains with flags, due to Southern being DOO, and SOU not being a SR station not equipped for DOO Dispatch

Thanks - I would have thought batons with LED lights were 'de rigeur' for platform dispatch these days. I was really specifically referring to guards using cloth flags to signal to drivers.

 

[CentralTrainer]

NSB in Norway still use the green flag - and the old style uniforms (with waistcoat and cap)

 

[Matt Taylor]

Red and green flags are a required bit of kit and not having them makes you not fit for work. It's very rare but I've used flags a couple of times.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks - I would have thought batons with LED lights were 'de rigeur' for platform dispatch these days.

Southampton Central (SOU) has a 'two man' routine for SN DOO trains, one with a green flag at the driver's position, and the usual chap with a white baton or lamp is also there, usually at the rear, he indicates to the bloke with the flag.

At the next SWT stations they call at after leaving SOU the driver does it himself, there was and is no specific equipment (other than the lighting upgrade) at any of them for DOO despatch, AFAICT the driver uses his cab side cameras only.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I travelled on my usual North Downs line train this morning and it seemed that the buzzer system had failed, as the guard was using a green flag when leaving stations - nostalgic!

It made me wonder how much use is made these days of flags by train crews - this was the first time I'd seen it for many years.

At stations with guarded operation and RA indicators, for example Euston, the guard doesn't use the buzzer but instead waves the green flag to the platform staff who operate the RA indicator. The slightly odd side of this is that the green flag is given when the staff door is still open so the train is not ready to depart.

I think Manc Picc 13/14 is operated in this way as well. I'm sure there are plenty of others.

 

[BestWestern]

At stations with guarded operation and RA indicators, for example Euston, the guard doesn't use the buzzer but instead waves the green flag to the platform staff who operate the RA indicator. The slightly odd side of this is that the green flag is given when the staff door is still open so the train is not ready to depart.

I think Manc Picc 13/14 is operated in this way as well. I'm sure there are plenty of others.

That's generally not an issue on something with power doors and interlock (i.e. not an HST, essentially!), because of course the train won't move until the Guard has boarded and closed whatever door he was using. However, on HSTs and other slam door stock, where there isn't the safeguard of traction interlock, the Guard should display the flag through a droplight window having boarded and secured their local door first. It wasn't always done that way, of course!

 

[Bletchleyite]

ISTR that on 150/1s, where the staff door is not interlocked, they do indeed do that (show it through the window).

 

[83G/84D]

Still use flags on the GWR summer Saturdays loco hauled "vegex". Probably on the sleepers as well during the early morning summer stops on the down run west of Plymouth.

 

[TheEdge]

You can see it every day in Anglia, both of the short hauled sets from Norwich are dispatched by flag and lamp due to a lack of bell buzzer.

 

[GW43125]

Scotrail's Fife Circle locohauled uses green flags by day and a green torch by night.

 

[BestWestern]

Anything comprising a loco and coaches will use flags and lamps. To my knowledge, no locos are equipped with bell/buzzer communication (unless the 68s/88s have that feature?).

 

[GW43125]

Anything comprising a loco and coaches will use flags and lamps. To my knowledge, no locos are equipped with bell/buzzer communication (unless the 68s/88s have that feature?).

68s don't *YET* but I believe that may be part of the door control mods they're getting.

 

[Merseysider]

I think Manc Picc 13/14 is operated in this way as well. I'm sure there are plenty of others.

Only tends to be some Northern services which use flags; there's normally a (TPE) dispatcher on the platform with a black/white baton

 

[iknowyeah]

Piccadilly and Victoria are both green flag dispatch, I once had to work a train from Rose Hill green flag as we had a bell buzzer fault.

 

[TEW]

Anything comprising a loco and coaches will use flags and lamps. To my knowledge, no locos are equipped with bell/buzzer communication (unless the 68s/88s have that feature?).

The Greater Anglia 90s do, as well as the 91s.

 

[TheEdge]

Anything comprising a loco and coaches will use flags and lamps. To my knowledge, no locos are equipped with bell/buzzer communication (unless the 68s/88s have that feature?).

GAs 90s are fitted.

 

[Sirgerbil]

Anything comprising a loco and coaches will use flags and lamps. To my knowledge, no locos are equipped with bell/buzzer communication (unless the 68s/88s have that feature?).

91's are, some of the 90's we have do too.

 

[BestWestern]

Ah yes, 91s would make sense. Interesting about the 90s, were some built like that or have they been retrofitted?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah yes, 91s would make sense. Interesting about the 90s, were some built like that or have they been retrofitted?

I expect so as they used flag/lamp in VTWC days.

 

[Deepgreen]

Thanks to all for the responses - interesting.

 

[Raul_Duke]

EMT out of Pancras use a green flag.

 

[Mintona]

I had green flags from the guard a couple of weeks ago after the buzzer broke at a station on route.

 

[Sybic26]

I understood that a green flag and possibly a red flag, lamp and whistle were part of the Guards/Conductors case/bag which they get when they sign on for duty.

 

[tsr]

Anything comprising a loco and coaches will use flags and lamps. To my knowledge, no locos are equipped with bell/buzzer communication (unless the 68s/88s have that feature?).

Some of the 59s had or have door controls compatible with 377s. Not sure if this included bells, but it would make sense.

I understood that a green flag and possibly a red flag, lamp and whistle were part of the Guards/Conductors case/bag which they get when they sign on for duty.

Required equipment usually includes a torch capable of showing red / green / white, a red flag and a green flag. (Yellow flags, and torches with yellow aspects, are carried by some staff, but not usually guards).

A whistle is not part of the dispatch process in the Rule Book, and use of whistles varies from "discouraged" to "mandatory" depending on local customs and special instructions applying to various routes, traction types and depots.

Conductors / guards usually get given a personal-issue bag which contains all this, and more, which is their responsibility to keep stocked, and bring to work at the start of each duty. Obviously there are spares for the forgetful (and for those not in favour with the depot administrator who supplies new stuff ).

 

[Silver Cobra]

I've seen green flags used by GN platform staff dispatching 12-car trains at Arlesey and Stevenage (all 12-car trains require manual dispatch on this route).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

ST Albans City used to do despatch bat and green flag , regrettably RA / CD indicators now.

 

[edwin_m]

91's are, some of the 90's we have do too.

Didn't the WCML sets have driver-guard communication even before the advent of the DVTs?

 

[BestWestern]

Some of the 59s had or have door controls compatible with 377s. Not sure if this included bells, but it would make sense.

59s....? With 377s, when did that happen?!